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by Toby Young
1 May 2020 11:42 AM

The Telegraph leads with Boris’s announcement at yesterday’s Downing Street press briefing that we are now “past the peak” and he will set out a “road map” next week on restarting the economy and reopening schools. (Robert Peston has more details.) In his first briefing since his return to work, the Prime Minister said the UK was “on the downward slope”, but emphasised the country must not “risk a second spike”. Further on in the same story the paper reveals that some ministers want to wait until the daily number of new infections falls into the hundreds before easing restrictions “after seeing Germany’s infection rate rise when it eased its own lockdown”. In fact, the infection rate hasn’t gone up in Germany since it eased its lockdown last week. On Monday it ticked up to just under 1, but it has since declined and using a one-day rise to claim easing has triggered a second wave of infections is misleading, to put it mildly. The latest R0 number in Germany is 0.76 according to the Robert Koch Institute.

The Cambridge statistician David Spiegelhalter has a good piece in the Guardian, outlining some of the difficulties involved in counting the total number of COVID-19 deaths and comparing the death rates of different countries. In Europe, the UK currently has the third-highest number of deaths per million (388), behind Belgium (632) and Italy (452), but such comparisons are bedevilled by different methods of recording deaths from COVID-19 in different countries. And even if we could reliably compare countries using that metric it still wouldn’t be a fair way of judging the performance of those who’ve been tasked with managing the outbreak because the death rate is affected by several things beyond their control, such as population density, median age and climate. Professor Spiegelhalter says he’s not going to reach a conclusion about any of this until the ONS publishes its data about all-cause mortality at the end of the year, giving us an indication of how many excess deaths there have been. He points out that this is how the impact of seasonal flu is calculated: “The effects of seasonal flu are not based on tests or death certificates, but at looking at the total number of deaths over the winter, seeing how many extra there are than a baseline, allowing for climate, and assuming these excess deaths were linked to flu. On average, over the last 10 years this has come to about 8,000 flu-related deaths, rising to 26,400 in 2017-2018 and 28,300 in 2014-15.” But the lockdown muddies the waters of this method because, as we know, some of the excess deaths in the year to date have been related to the lockdown – non-COVID-19 patients not being hospitalised, for instance – and the total number of deaths from some other causes, such as road traffic accidents, has fallen. It’s not even clear what the relevant counter-factual is. All we know for sure is that people are going to be arguing about this for years.

One fear the Government has, says the Times, is that people won’t actually leave their homes and return to work if the lockdown is eased. It has whipped up the public into such a frenzy of blanket-clutching fear, aided and abetted by the hysteria of the mainstream media, that a significant percentage may not dare venture outside for non-essentials. According to polling by Ipsos Mori, more than 60% of people would feel uncomfortable going to bars and restaurants or using public transport after the lockdown is over, more than 40% would be reluctant to go shopping or send their children to school and more than 30% are worried about going to work or meeting friends.

If you have children under 10, not sending them to school would be deeply silly. To date, only one child under 10 has died of the virus in the UK and children under 10 do not transmit it, according to Dr Ebere Okereke, a consultant in global public health for Public Health England. So no risk of children passing it on to their teachers – or their parents or their grandparents. Dr Obereke is basing this on a recent review of the evidence done by the Royal College of Paediatrics (RCP), but there’s corroborating evidence from the China/WHO joint commission which hasn’t uncovered a single instance of transmission from a child to an adult. Among the cases studied by the RCP is that of a nine-year-old English boy who contracted coronavirus in the French Alps but did not pass it on, despite having contact with more than 170 people at three schools.

Does this mean Boris will announce that primary schools can reopen next week without a pointless and unenforceable insistence that pupils should remain two metres apart? We can but hope.

Another bit of good news is that South Korean experts have concluded that patients who were feared to have been ‘reinfected’ with the virus, casting doubt on the possibility of an effective vaccine as well as making herd immunity look all-but impossible, were just false positives. Live Science has the story.

On the subject of testing, did Matt Hancock meet his target of carrying out 100,000 in a single day by April 30th? We’re due to find out at shortly.

CREDIT: BOB for the Telegraph

The Office of Budget Responsibility has estimated the cost of the measures Rishi Sunack has introduced so far to protect the economy from the impact of the crisis: £100 billion. The big ticket items are as follows:

  • £39 billion on the furlough scheme to pay 80% of staff wages.
  • £16 billion of extra spending on public services.
  • £15 billon on grants for small businesses.
  • £13 billion for increased business rate relief.
  • £10 billion on the support system for the self-employed.
  • £1.2 billion on changes to the “off-payroll” system for freelancers and contractors, known as IR35.
  • £1 billion in sick pay.
  • £800 million for charities.
  • £500 million to local authorities for vulnerable people.

An application to challenge some of Ireland’s coronavirus laws will heard shortly, according to the Irish Times. An application by John Waters and Gemma O’Doherty for permission to bring a challenge against laws introduced due to the Covid-19 pandemic is due to be heard before a High Court judge next week.

And a similar challenge is being launched in the UK, it was announced today. Businessman Simon Dolan is seeking a Judicial Review over the Government’s emergency measures. His lawyers have delivered a ‘Letter Before Action’ on his behalf to the Government, giving it until May 7th to respond. Mr Dolan is seeking to challenge the Government on three main points:

  • Whether lockdown is unlawful because the Government implemented regulations under the Public Health Act 1984 instead of the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 or the Coronavirus Act 2020.
  • The legality of the continuation of lockdown regulation, and whether the tests are too narrow, failing to take account of the economic and social impacts of lockdown.
  • If the restrictions brought in by the Government contravene the European Convention of Human Rights, which cover the right to liberty, family life, education and property.

He’s also seeking to persuade the Government to make three key policy changes that will restore some of our freedoms and get the economy moving again:

  • Allow gatherings of up to 100 people.
  • Reopen schools.
  • Review the lockdown restrictions every two weeks.

In addition, Dolan wants the Government to disclose the scientific evidence that ministers and civil servants have been relying on to make policy decisions. (Does this mean his barrister will have a chance to cross-examine Neil Ferguson about his March 16th modelling?) He’s also seeking clarity over who sits on the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) and wants the Government to publish the minutes from SAGE meetings. (You can read the minutes of NERVTAG meetings here.)

Needless to say, Dolan is a lockdown sceptic – and from the points he makes in the press release, its sounds like he’s a regular reader of this site. Here are some of his quotes:

Small businesses continue to be badly affected. Businesses have been forced to shut, furlough staff and make cuts just in an attempt to survive.

Lockdown is also taking a huge toll on mental health and family life. Calls to the National Domestic Abuse helpline are up 49%. Referrals for cancer tests have fallen by 76%. It is estimated that 18,000 more people with cancer could die because of the disruption.

We are depriving children of a proper education and instead teaching them to hide away from uncertainty rather than to confront it.

It is now universally accepted that the lockdown will cause enormous long-term damage to both the economy and the general health of the population. No-one will be untouched by its effects, but the poorest in society will be by far the most affected

Simon Dolan is hoping to pay for this challenge via a crowdfunder. (He’s like a sound version of Jolyon Maugham!) Readers who wish to contribute can do so by clicking here.

ITV reports that the police have been handing out fines to people flouting social distancing rules – or wrongly suspected of doing so – like traffic wardens on Dexedrine. The National Police Chiefs’ Council says 8,877 fixed penalty notices (FPNs) were recorded by forces in England between March 27th and April 27th, while 299 were issued in Wales over the same period – a total of 9,176. 397 were for repeat offenders, with one person fined six times. (Give that man a Blue Peter badge!) The FPNs are for £60, but like parking tickets are reduced to half that if paid within two weeks. Meanwhile, the Guardian reports that police have received 200,000 calls notifying them of people who are flouting the rules. What became of freeborn Englishman? We’ve become a nation of informants.

A couple came within one metre of each other yesterday. Luckily the police were on hand to stop any naughty business.

The sceptical case is beginning to gain traction. Bloomberg ran a comment piece yesterday entitled ‘Lockdown Critics May Have Some Valid Points‘ – gee thanks, guys – and Elon Musk, the Tesla creator, has come out as a hard sceptic. “If some­body wants to stay in their house, that’s great. They should be al­lowed to stay in their house and they should not be com­pelled to leave,” he told stock-market an­a­lysts in a call on Wednes­day. “But to say that they can­not leave their house, and they will be ar­rested if they do, this is fas­cist. This is not de­mo­c­ratic. This is not free­dom. Give peo­ple back their god­damn free­dom.”

Tesla posted a surprise first-quarter profit on Monday – go Elon!

For those who still aren’t convinced, Iain Davis in Off-Guardian has compiled a summary of the data demolishing the case for lockdowns.

According to a long piece for the BBC’s website, the disproportionately high death toll among BAME people may be due to “the accumulated physiological burden from the stresses caused by racism and race-related disadvantage, such as the frequent secretion of stress hormones”. We’re going to be hearing a lot of this unscientific gobbledegook as the post-mortem into BAME deaths gets underway, but my money is on the fact that people with darker skin produce less Vitamin D, with more and more papers being published on this every day.

Guy de la Bédoyère, the author of a book on the polio vaccine who’s made several excellent contributions to this site, has sent me his thoughts about Vitamin D and why the lockdown could be killing people:

If a lack of Vitamin D is a contributory factor affecting BAME people and their susceptibility to severe symptoms, then there is also a rather glaringly obvious link to care homes. Most residents, regardless of ethnicity, spend all day indoors, adding to their general suite of ailments and sheer age, get little sunlight and probably a lot less now. My 99-year-old mother-in-law (who soldiers on – she was in the year below ‘Colonel’ Tom Moore at Keighley Grammar) is extremely unusual at her care home in having a two-room garden apartment where she can sit outside on warm days. In the three years we’ve been visiting her we have scarcely ever seen anyone else sitting outside. We chose the home because all the others we inspected involved living in rooms indoors. I imagine the same consideration applies to people with existing medical conditions who can’t go out much – and unless I’m very much mistaken the UK is the most northerly of the most seriously affected countries and is only now emerging out of winter. the lockdown is going to have a potentially serious impact on vitamin D levels in everyone from babies to centenarians. The lockdown is particularly condemning the over-70s to their homes (although many are visibly ignoring it now), terrorising them out of enjoying the outdoors. Is this another factor that’s going to result in the lockdown increasing their susceptibility?

Could Vitamin D be the reason why Florida’s death rate is only six per 100,000? The Governor of Florida declined to impose a lockdown, leaving the residents of his state free to go out and enjoy the sunshine.

I hear a lot of anecdotes about cancer patients being sent to the back of the queue, with COVID-19 patients taking priority – or, rather, priority being given to notional COVID-19 patients because, of course, half of all hospital beds are empty. Here’s one reader’s personal experience of this neglect:

I recently underwent bowel cancer surgery which was a success; I’m now fully recovered and back at work – I was discharged the very day the first coronavirus media reports appeared. The ‘fly in the ointment’ for me was that I had a coincidental finding of a suspicious lesion on a kidney – so they needed to bring me back to have it biopsied, then removed. I attended for the biopsy only to be told that all cases were being deferred for three months because of coronavirus – so I was sent home with no biopsy and no prospect of having the lesion removed in the near future. It is somewhat ironic that I make a great recovery from the first cancer, owing to the excellent NHS care I received, only to now find myself under house arrest, possibly along with tens of thousands of other cancer patients, waiting for a low stage cancer to become a high stage cancer. What do you think the take-up would be if those in my position organised a Friday evening clap-in at 8pm each week for all those heroes who will probably die due to their treatment being withdrawn to keep empty beds free ‘just in case’? At least they would know their sacrifice was appreciated while they were still alive.

More suggestions for theme tunes for this site have come in: ‘Aint it Grand to be Blooming Well Dead‘ by Leslie Sarony, ‘I’ll Never Get Out of This World Alive‘ by Hank Williams and ‘Ghost Town‘ by the Specials.

Some readers have submitted their suggestions for Tarantino-esque movie titles for a film about the rivalries of epidemiologists, the best of which is Public Health Fiction. And thanks to RDawg for designing this poster featuring Neil Ferguson and Johan Giesecke squaring up in the ring:

As always, a big thanks to those who donated to pay for the upkeep of this site yesterday. Maintaining it – and doing these daily updates – now takes up about three-quarters of my day, so if you feel like donating you can do so by clicking here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in the site, or have points you think I should make, you can email me here. We’ve now passed 250,00 page views so I like to think the message is gradually getting through.

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176 Comments
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Barney McGrew
Barney McGrew
5 years ago

I hate the focus on “100,000 tests”. There’s nothing special about 100,000 tests compared to 95,342, but the BBC et al. are obsessed with tripping him up over it. As a result, no doubt, extensive government resources are currently tied up trying to ensure a purely arbitrary number of tests are carried out. It’s pathetic. If the government did but have some balls and just tell the press to f*ck off.

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AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
5 years ago
Reply to  Barney McGrew

100k tests target is simply noise. Neither side will really challenge the other as there’s far too cozy a relationship between the political class and the media. One scratches the other’s back etc.

It would be great if a journalist such as Toby Young, Fraser Nelson, Peter Hitchens or James Dellingpole could take part in the daily punch and judy show. But I won’t hold my breath …

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Matthew Reid
Matthew Reid
5 years ago
Reply to  AN other lockdown sceptic

I think even if the government targeted 1 billion tests they would tell us they met their target, its utterly meaningless. I’m not sure who advising government thinks that the public will be feeling happy and secure just because there are more tests. More like to appease the press that the government as you state are beholden to.
As for tests to see if I’m ill, I’d feel more happy and positive if I’m told I’ve had coronavirus rather than have it but that test seems to have dropped off the face of the earth, no doubt because it will reveal much higher proportions of the population have had it than Neil Ferguson or Chris Whitty claim. Another fact for the government to bury…
For the test that tells you whether you currently have it, I imagine by the time you receive your test results back you would have recovered anyway (or died) based on our governments performance in pandemic management.

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chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  Matthew Reid

Riddle me this: if you have symptoms you must self-isolate. But you can drive a couple of hundred miles for a test. What happens if the test is positive – do you then get arrested?

Agree the antibody test would be the game changer

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Mark Hunter
Mark Hunter
5 years ago
Reply to  Barney McGrew

At least England is close to 100,000 tests. In Scotland, we’re doing 3,500 a day. At that rate, it’ll take about 4 years to test the population. But at least wee Nicola can be the talk of the town with her advice to wear a scarf over your face if you go into a public place. I’m not long home from Lidl. Thankfully only one shopper, that I saw, has heeded her ridiculous edict.

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wendyk
wendyk
5 years ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

What a piece of nonsense her scarf advice is! Absolutely pointless, yet here they are, wearing totally useless face coverings: purdah by suggestion.
Add to that the 2 Nicola letters received this week: how much did this cost?.

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eastberks44
eastberks44
5 years ago
Reply to  wendyk

They do serve a purpose though. In conjunction with sunglasses, they can defeat facial recognition software and make it safer to go out in public.

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TyRade
TyRade
5 years ago
Reply to  Barney McGrew

Congratulations Comrades! We have reached the target of 100,000 for masks. Next, let’s double tractor output. Then onto record wheat harvests. And when Our Leaders allow us out of our cells, rejoice as the central plan picks winners by region, sector and demographic group. Another 5 years of glorious achievement, comrades, at least!

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wendyk
wendyk
5 years ago
Reply to  TyRade

And then universal famine- if we follow Old Jo’s collectivisation programme.
What joys await: no doubt there shall be special awards for curtain twitchers .

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AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
5 years ago
Reply to  TyRade

I wonder when the daily Two Minutes Hate will be imposed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvGmOZ5T6_Y

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old fred
old fred
5 years ago
Reply to  TyRade

‘Stakhanovite Movement 2020’ !

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AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
5 years ago
Reply to  old fred

old fred. Thanks. Never heard of it, so looked it up. I’ve learnt something. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakhanovite_movement

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guy153
guy153
5 years ago
Reply to  Barney McGrew

You could learn an enormous amount from only around 10,000 antibody tests done properly at random all around the country. 100k tests of any kind at this point in the pandemic is pretty much pointless. Porton Down have been doing these tests but the government are keeping the results secret.

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ianp
ianp
5 years ago
Reply to  guy153

If that’s right it’s because a huge number of people have had it already and never even noticed. Releasing any such figures would surely turn all but the most brainless ifitonlysavesonelifers/lockdownfreaks against the current house arrest. Now it’s all a game of political spin by the government to ‘prove’ they did the right thing. It’s scandalous and the media are completely complicit in this mess

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Sim18
Sim18
5 years ago
Reply to  guy153

It is odd. Hancock was saying at the beginning of April that antibody tests had been conducted. Nothing heard about them since. When asked about such tests at the 5pm briefing the usual response of late has been that it was necessary to wait 28 days for antibodies to develop, which leaves one wondering what Hncock was on about early April.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-we-ll-get-to-100-000-tests-a-day?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=LNCH%20%2020200403%20%20SM&utm_content=LNCH%20%2020200403%20%20SM+CID_5ae208617fbfda09ca6352c67438f21e&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_term=says

Hancock Yes, but I’m not assuming any come on stream – that’s pillar three, as we call it – in order to hit the 100,000 target. We have already 3,500 a week of antibody tests at Porton Down, and they are the top quality, the best test in the world. We’re using those for research purposes to understand how much of the population has had coronavirus. This is one of the great unknown questions. But that’s obviously a very small number, 500 or so a day.

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APB
APB
5 years ago

One suspects the only way the Government are going to lever people back to work will be to make continued receipt of furlough benefits dependent upon it – with a tapered reduction of furlough matched by employers’ reassumption of salary payments. Perhaps this might be tapered to match part time return to work, and, I’d suggest, with some mandated requirement on employers to retain employees for a period too – otherwise impecunious (or unscrupulous) employers will simply lay people off at the first opportunity as soon as furlough ends).

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Mark Hunter
Mark Hunter
5 years ago
Reply to  APB

I’ve heard of firms readying their HR departments for when the lockdown ends. Once the government gives us permission to live like humans again, anyone not returning to work gets the sack.

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BoneyKnee
BoneyKnee
5 years ago
Reply to  APB

I wouldn’t worry too much about those surveys. People adjust to all sorts and want to be out and about. I expect if you asked the same group something like “Do you think you’ll be out shopping this time next year?” They would answer “Yes”. Familiarity and time will reduce fear. “My friends are all at work and nobody died.”

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Lms2
Lms2
5 years ago
Reply to  APB

I’d suggest simply stop paying them to stay at home. They’ll soon move when that happens.

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AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
5 years ago

Another very big thank you Toby for this brilliant site and your work.

Thank you also to Simon Dolan for leading a legal challenge. It’s cheered me up no end and I’ve happily chipped in.

Off for a compliant drive plus a longer walk shortly, followed by a recovery beer.

Happy Friday fellow Lockdown Sceptics.

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GLT
GLT
5 years ago
Reply to  AN other lockdown sceptic

Whole-heartedly seconded!

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chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  GLT

+1

there’s some excellent stuff on here. Thanks to all

1
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JRG
JRG
5 years ago

Members of the Government who fear “that people won’t actually leave their homes and return to work if the lockdown is eased” should perhaps review the Prime Minister’s public pronouncements before allowing him anywhere near a microphone. During yesterday’s update, I was astonished to hear him say the lockdown prevented 500,000 deaths. Absolutely no scientific or other evidence on which to base this absurd claim, but he still made it. I can’t help but wonder what the two actual scientists who flanked him thought.

At the beginning of this crisis we saw a rational, level-headed response from the Prime Minister. Then the media clearly bullied him into a lockdown for which there was no substantive evidence. But after having listened to him on the two occasions since his lockdown was lifted, it has become apparent that Boris Johnson has not only imbibed the Kool-Aid, but he’s now licking up the last droplets in the bottom of his glass. It seems he genuinely believes this is his Churchill moment, and he intends to spin his way into history by convincing the British population that his actions saved half a million (if not more) lives.

14
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wendyk
wendyk
5 years ago

A neighbour-(whom I met on my sneaky second walk today- the first since the house arrests commenced)- told me that she was reported to the cops by a nosy watcher.
She held a small gathering for her young son’s birthday and ensured that the 3 guests were suitably spaced.
Apparently the cops stood too close while delivering their lecture and she gave them an earful accordingly.
No further action taken.
Secondly, up here, we have just been favoured by a second Nicola letter, an exact replication of the original, which came to us a couple of days ago.
The letters contain virtually the same advice as the original Boris letter.
I’m finding all this to be increasingly tiresome now: we aren’t children and more folk are venturing out.
Local shops are busier and, thankfully, the hard working, ever polite and friendly staff are all well, despite having to endure uncalled for ear ache from recalcitrant idiots.
As for tunes:

https://www.lyrics.com/lyric/77741/The+Best+of+Johnny+Kidd/I%27ll+Never+Get+over+You Johnny Kidd and the Pirates- first verse only

https://genius.com/The-tiger-lillies-prison-house-blues-lyrics

https://genius.com/Peggy-lee-is-that-all-there-is-lyrics

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wendyk
wendyk
5 years ago
Reply to  wendyk

And one more song, from the very great Tom Lehrer’ the doyen of black humour:

https://genius.com/Tom-lehrer-we-will-all-go-together-when-we-go-lyrics

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John
John
5 years ago
Reply to  wendyk

Except for the current crisis it should be more like:

Less than 1 % will go, the rest are fine
Don’t steal my family’s feeedoms, don’t steal mine
Universal unemployment
Cops preventng all enjoyment
Yes, Less than 1% will go, the rest are fine
…

2
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old fred
old fred
5 years ago
Reply to  wendyk

In a similar vein, a couple of days ago I asked a guy collecting the shopping trolleys at my local (and very busy) Asda store if there had been any cases of Covid amongst the staff working there. He thought a while and then said “No, Nothing”. A shift system is in operation there, with 120 staff on site at any one time.

I must say that, although queuing to get in was a bit of a pain, once you were in the shopping experience was much better than in normal crowded times. Every cloud has a …..!

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Lms2
Lms2
5 years ago
Reply to  wendyk

On your point about the shops, my OH was out shopping earlier today at Aldi, where there was a short queue, and the younger man in front started to chat, saying how much busier the roads were, a that he owned a coffee shop in Norwich, which he’d re-opened three weeks ago and had never done such good business. I’m guessing it’s the lack of competition from other coffee shops, but it sounded like there were plenty of grateful customers around in the town to keep him busy.

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Samantha
Samantha
5 years ago
Reply to  Lms2

There is, to my knowledge, only 1 fried chicken/fish and chip takeaway open in my town of 100,000 people. I’ve been getting a meal there on the days I pass it on the way back from shops. Out duty isn’t to stay inside, its to keep our being patrons of those local businesses who’ve shown the bravery of staying open.

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Mark Hunter
Mark Hunter
5 years ago

So, what’s the panic about a “second wave” all about? Firstly, the second wave panic, pushed by Prof Neil Ferguson is based on speculation. It’s not based on science. And this is very important, because, remember, the politicians who are making all the decisions about what our lives look like are claiming to be “led by the science”. Pandemic models are not scientific. And what I mean by that is the established scientific procedures of ***test the hypothesis, demonstrate the hypothesis, falsify the hypothesis*** cannot be applied to a model. A model is just a fancy way of saying “a guess”. So, at a guess, 100,000 people could die if the lockdown is lifted. But that’s all it is. A guess. It can’t be tested, proven or falsified. And the actual scientific data directly contradicts that guess. What the scientific data shows is that the virus has a *low mortality rate*. This fact directly contradicts Prof Neil Ferguson’s guess, that it would have a high mortality rate. The scientific data shows that 97% of people with the virus will only have mild symptoms and won’t need to go to hospital. The scientific data shows that 3% of people who have… Read more »

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Pebbles
Pebbles
5 years ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

I have asked many people this question before but no one has an answer… Why did the UK Gov downgrade the Coronavirus to no longer a HCID 4 days before going into lockdown on 19 March while it WAS classified as a HCID from January onwards all the weeks whilst we were NOT in lockdown? See for yourself here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid Note this excerpt: “…in particular, more information is available about mortality rates (low overall), and there is now greater clinical awareness and a specific and sensitive laboratory test, the availability of which continues to increase.” It goes on to say that the need for a national response remains, which has been met by the government’s Covid-19 response. Isn’t that the exact polar opposite (low overall mortality rate) of what Neil Ferguson predicted and didn’t we go into lockdown precisely because Mr Ferguson advised the government and predicted an apocalyptic death wave on 16 March, just 3 days prior to this announcement on the government website…? It makes absolutely no sense. And if you look at the bullet points what classifies as a HCID, then as far as I can tell, Coronavirus hits all the points… Can anyone shed light on… Read more »

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Nick M
Nick M
5 years ago
Reply to  Pebbles

Agree totally bizarre and baffling, like so many aspects of this craziness.

3
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Catharine Knowles
Catharine Knowles
5 years ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

Thank you for this unique, concise and comprehensive round-up of the facts. It is a hugely welcome relief from the utter garbage spouted by the government and their advisers.

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Lms2
Lms2
5 years ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-death-data-in-england-update-30th-april/

CEBM The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine develops, promotes and disseminates better evidence for healthcare.
30th April
“NHS England releases data at 2 pm each day and reports daily count up to the previous day as well as a total figure…
Today’s (30/4/2020) reported figure is 391 deaths in hospitals in England. These deaths are distributed back to the 12th of March.
Consistent with previous analyses, the peak day of deaths was the 8th of April.”

They’ve analysed the mortality data and produced graphs showing the number of deaths per day according to the date of actual death, not the date of announcement, which can differ by quite a bit.

8
0
Farinances
Farinances
5 years ago
Reply to  Lms2

So my guess of a month’s lag on reported deaths coming in wasn’t far off.

The fact that the vast majority of people will literally think that 700+ people are dying PER DAY is quote frankly scandalous. If the figures were reported literally instead of retrospectively, I feel like a lot of people would calm down and start to get some perspective.

7
0
chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

Especially when you consider that about 1500 people die every day on average. EXCESS deaths are what is important but they are clearly being manipulated. Did someone at ONS suddenly find a bunch of death certificates which had fallen behind the water cooler, just as Boris was getting back to work? And were they holding back all the care home deaths so they could release them all at once too?

There’s some weird stuff with the increase in “non-covid” deaths too, and added to the scam of counting almost all deaths as covid even when they weren’t, the whole thing becomes opaque.

2
0
ghrjgrbehbj
ghrjgrbehbj
5 years ago
Reply to  Lms2

As British institutions go the CEBM seems to be the one with the best understanding of the covid situation in our country. Time we all started living by their “lockdowns are bad” type guidance rather than Ferguson’s un-reviewed models.

4
0
Sim18
Sim18
5 years ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

The second wave idea isn’t very scientific. Here is a paper from CEBM
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-epidemic-waves/

1
0
BTLnewbie
BTLnewbie
5 years ago

This site, and in particular the below-the-line comments, are a lifeline. I never thought I’d be a ‘below the line’ contributor, but am driven to this to protect my sanity. Some observations: 1 How will the Government get us back to work? The official Gov’t advice on work – see: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/guidance-for-employers-and-businesses-on-coronavirus-covid-19 includes: “During this time of unprecedented disruption, the UK Government is not asking all businesses to shut – indeed it is important for business to carry on. Only some non-essential shops and public venues have been asked to close.” This is not a message that has come across – at all. Many working-age employees, currently enjoying furlough on 80% pay, will be hard-pressed to accept a new edict that “Stay at Home to save lives” will, overnight, turn into “Go to work to save the economy”. They will rightly ask ‘What has changed in the risk that I face if I go out there’? The answer is ‘nothing’ – the risk for you is as negligible as it has always been’ – but who’s going to tell them that with authority? Today’s Ipsos Mori survey, reinforcing the public’s acceptance of lockdown, emphasises the difficulty the Gov’t faces. The furlough… Read more »

20
0
Nicky
Nicky
5 years ago
Reply to  BTLnewbie

Economics is a science too, albeit “the dismal” one. Economics seems however to have some level of understanding of how connected the modern world is and how reliant we all are upon everything getting done properly, epidemiology ignores everything which isn’t today’s exciting new disease.

3
0
Mimi
Mimi
5 years ago

This was encouraging news from a Pennsylvania hospital head: https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/04/umpc-argues-covid-19-not-as-deadly-as-feared-says-its-hospitals-will-shift-back-to-normal.html I made the mistake of looking at Georgia news before bed last night, and encountered The Atlantic’s whack job on Governor Kemp after he (very very mildly) let people a little bit out of their houses last week. (No one was dining in restaurants or drinking at bars. What, you want people to die?) Evidently 4 people died after. That bringing Georgia’s fatalities up to 1131. In a state of 10.6 million people. First, there’s no way the easing of restrictions could’ve had anything to do with those deaths. Second, it is unrealistic to expect people in nursing homes not to die at a higher rate than in the rest of the community. We could stay home for the rest of the century, and old sick people would continue to die. Anyway, the Atlantic had a headline about Kemp making a “human sacrifice.” Which, frankly, is libelous and worthy of a lawsuit. I lay awake fretting for a while, thinking we’ll be imprisoned forever. Then I finally realized, with that clarity that comes to a relaxed mind – the Atlantic wants Georgia to fail. It doesn’t care about COVID, not… Read more »

18
0
Tim Bidie
Tim Bidie
5 years ago
Reply to  Mimi

I have wondered for some time how much of this whole soap opera owes its momentum to the fact that this is a U.S. Presidential election year?

9
0
Mimi
Mimi
5 years ago
Reply to  Mimi

I think a massive amount of this is to do with Donald Trump being in the White House. I am the first to admit that I hold no love for Trump. The sleep I lost after his election, oh my god! He is a terrible leader, incompetent and inconsistent in the extreme. If we had actual competent grownups in charge of the country, I would hope things would be different now. But! The degree of hatred many people hold for him is waaaaayyyy beyond rational. And the NY Times and Washington Post, The Atlantic, CNN, and a number of other outlets are very interested in getting rid of him. My father used to rant about the liberal media, back when Fox News was new and enticing to him. For 20 years, I’ve found Fox horrifying. I still kind of do, but at the moment, right-wing media is the only place playing anything resembling a counter-story to the deadly-plague-of-doom-zombie-apocalypse narrative we’re getting from the MSM. This narrative continues in the face of mounting evidence that COVID isn’t that deadly, that people are protesting because they have lost their jobs and their freedom to leave their houses and not because they love… Read more »

18
0
old fred
old fred
5 years ago
Reply to  Mimi

My worry – If Trump can restart the US economy and unemployment falls very rapidly then he could be re-elected in Nov (oh dear!).
As said elsewhere ‘Voters care about the economy, first, second, and third. Everything else is just noise’. 30 to 40 million unemployment are waiting for action.

3
-2
wendyk
wendyk
5 years ago
Reply to  Mimi

I’ve been making the same point about fatalities amongst the old,sick and frail: nature does this ,yet we seem to be unable to accept the fact that death will end the life span,and that this will come most frequently to the very old and sick, regardless of the cause(s).
The way the media is whipping up a storm about nursing home deaths is irresponsible and silly.

15
0
Dan
Dan
5 years ago
Reply to  Mimi

Seems to me that lockdown is the human sacrifice, governments, the media and a large proportion of the population have come to believe that some sort of Deus Ex Machina will swoop down to save us from this virus if we simply make our lives unbearable enough. This is NOT a novel or a film, there is NO author waiting to reward you for your devotion to a lost cause, you do NOT get redemption through suffering, you get it by getting back to work and making life happen again.

11
0
Tim Bidie
Tim Bidie
5 years ago
Reply to  Dan

There is one film it does slightly resemble, though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDldRklFv9k

0
0
Jane
Jane
5 years ago

I posted this comment on yesterday’s article by mistake. The Bloomberg piece https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-29/coronavirus-lockdown-critics-may-have-some-valid-points indicated by a commentator tells us that it is in New York, Detroit and New Orleans that the hospital system has been stretched to capacity. Density of population is given as the reason. Might not obesity and underlying ill health of population also have a lot to do with it? More than half of adult New Yorkers have overweight (34%) or obesity (22%). Detroit residents are more obese than the average American. New Orleans residents suffer from obesity, diabetes and hypertension at rates higher than the national average. Just look up city name and obesity and the information appears. These cities are also home to a large proportion of African Americans who are likely to be deficient in vitamin D. Lack of vitamin D plus overweight equals critical outcome. Meanwhile people stay at home eating junk food, getting even less exercise and less sunshine than usual and becoming an easy prey for any virus that is going about.

14
0
BoneyKnee
BoneyKnee
5 years ago

The legal case will be interesting. I can’t see it working. It seems that in a pandemic those in authority must be allowed to act – may be they used the wrong Act but that seems a technicality. I am sure HMG will claim that it is looking at the greatest good which includes the economy’s impact on other health parameters.

I personally feel that it would be better for the government to be more open and share more of their workings. Our ministers feel the same since they always bang on about transparency but never actually do it. If they were more transparent I think they’d be able to keep a consensus going – not on a lock down but the next more nuanced requirements. We risk real fragmentation which isn’t good at all. I doubt that the judges can force a government to publish everything.

It could be that the legal action is an attempt to apply political pressure and gain publicity. That seems like a reasonable use. Even if Dolan doesn’t have the law on his side it could be that he pushes the government to be more transparent.

4
-2
ThomasPelham
ThomasPelham
5 years ago
Reply to  BoneyKnee

“It seems that in a pandemic those in authority must be allowed to act”

Within reason though; and especially if they’re going to continue the lockdown, I’d like to see parliamentary and legal review frequently! They’ve taken some very serious liberties away from us somewhat speculatively (even the WHO wasn’t recommending lockdown in the literature review they did last year)- the last thing we want is future governments using this as precedent. At what point is this an unnecessary measure, and who gets to decide that?

17
0
BoneyKnee
BoneyKnee
5 years ago
Reply to  ThomasPelham

I’d agree. The lock down was precautionary. I believe it was necessary. It might turn out that is has done more harm than good (if we can measure all the knock-on events). However, stopping an epidemic that you don’t understand seems sensible. However….

We have stopped it. We do now have a much better understanding of the virus (not perfect) and of the problems of lock down. For me, it is all about what happens next. So I think governments must be allowed to shout “Fire!” in an emergency and people just respond but not forever.

3
-7
Farinances
Farinances
5 years ago
Reply to  BoneyKnee

TBH I don’t think the initial lockdown was that ridiculous (especially if they’d done it a few weeks earlier…..). I can understand a degree of the political willies, unknown virus, look how China got rid of it, media pressure etc. No government is perfect.

What I CAN’T understand is the extension of the lockdown for another three weeks, when there was plenty of evidence coming in that they’d overreacted. The smoking gun for me was actually the fact that the peak was clearly on the 8th April. The fact that they’ve said so only a few times, and fleetingly – plus the fact that they waited for Boris to come back and admit that “we’re past the peak” WEEKS after the peak was actually passed – well that’s the nail in the coffin. They’re a shower of shit.

I wonder if Boris himself hadn’t been a “victim” whether he’d be able to see more clearly. Probably not. Then again, I think they all CAN actually see what they’ve done, and now they’re just desperately trying to save their arses rather than the country.

30
-1
Barney McGrew
Barney McGrew
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

It makes Gordon Brown’s selling of the gold (£5 billion wasted) look like rather small potatoes.

6
0
Farinances
Farinances
5 years ago
Reply to  Barney McGrew

It does. But at least with this (hopefully) the good intentions were there whereas that was just….. dumb.

5
0
Nick M
Nick M
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

Totally agree this is mainly about arse covering for them now. I was so infuriated by the buffoon trotting out the we’ve avoided 500,000 deaths through our sacrifice line last night. It is appallingly disingenuous to still be spouting that ‘reasonable worse case view’ given all the data that has emerged about the virus since Ferguson’s bombshell.

21
0
BecJT
BecJT
5 years ago
Reply to  Nick M

Me too and in the same breath as ‘the peak is passed’, they must really think we are stupid!

11
0
Clio
Clio
5 years ago
Reply to  BoneyKnee

The lockdown was not justified. Don’t forget the government was pursuing herd immunity ie the same policy as Sweden until Neil Ferguson’s dodgy dossier was published. That, combined with media pressure, was the reason for the UK lockdown – not evidence that it would work or that we were in fact in the grip of a true pandemic (as in 1918). If we accept the argument that the govt had to act where does it end? Every winter when the NHS is short of beds and there is a spike in flu deaths? Don’t forget flu is not a notifiable disease ie the true number of flu deaths is likely to be higher than recorded. There is plenty of evidence that any and all deaths with C19 are being recorded inaccurately as from C19 not to mention “suspected” C19 deaths are being recorded as from C19. The govt should have calmed the panic from the outset instead they encourage it and it’s perfectly obvious they are engaged in a face saving exercise at this point. I’m pleased that Dolan is challenging the government it’s about time there was some public opposition although I am sure the media will depict him… Read more »

24
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NHS
NHS
5 years ago

I despair.

We now seem to be in thrall to a magical symbol R which, as a sacrifice to appease the Gods, we must keep below 1.

At great human and financial cost we have bought the time to enable the NHS to care for the victims of this virus. We are doing all we can to find a means of protecting us from it, and to lessening its effects.

We know that restricting the activity, interactions and mobility of the healthy will not in the long run reduce the number of people dying with the virus.

We also know that, in doing this, the Government is sacrificing the lives of tens of thousands of people, creating untold suffering, and depriving millions of the things that make their lives life worth living.

Prime Minister, how in all conscience can you continue to do this?

11
0
Annabel Andrew
Annabel Andrew
5 years ago

To avoid listening to the latest rubbish spouted on R4 on my journeys to and from work, I have been indulging in the radio station Magical Musicals- a great way to pass half an hour. This particular lyric from the song Cabaret ( and the musical of the same name) has struck a chord with me – ‘ start by admitting from cradle to tomb isn’t that long a stay’. To those millions who are terrified to come out of their homes- just live your life, it doesn’t last that long; don’t waste even the smallest bit of it by being scared of something that may never happen.

26
0
BecJT
BecJT
5 years ago
Reply to  Annabel Andrew

Agree, and people don’t understand risk either. I googled ‘what are my chances of dying, ranked’, the list makes interesting reading, I think I’m more likely to die in an ‘extreme weather event’ than this virus!

14
0
Csaba
Csaba
5 years ago

I have a comment on the cost of economy protection so far.
The total spending on health was around 134 billion in 2019/20. Based on the website below.
https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/
For me, it means that we have already spent roughly the same money on protecting the economy just until now that would be enough to run the total health service for a year. Before the virus, there was not enough money to upgrade the health service and now we have spent one year budget already only on the economy. I assume this money will be missing from the further running of the health system that will cause deaths. However, this will be a slow gradual increase, not a peak. And probably won’t be under the magnifying glass and media interest.

15
0
Bill H
Bill H
5 years ago
Reply to  Csaba

Do remember the way things were back in 2018 ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42572116

Nasty, but really not taken as being that much out of the ordinary.

Isn’t it strange how selective people can be – or whipped up into a frenzy by the media.

Hope the sun stays out over the weekend.

9
0
Barney McGrew
Barney McGrew
5 years ago
Reply to  Csaba

Having called for the lockdown in the first place, the media will then bash the government when the NHS funding runs dry. North Korea may find it amusing to donate us some equipment.

8
0
Harray
Harray
5 years ago
Reply to  Barney McGrew

It’s disgusting that of all the protests in recent history the only one Boris ever paid attention to was less than 10 nutters in white coveralls (they weren’t true HazMat suits) saying “shut down the country”.

4
0
truthseeker
truthseeker
5 years ago

https://youtu.be/Ex2AmdwxPsc

0
0
BrianJR
BrianJR
5 years ago

Am finding myself increasingly sinking into depression as this nonsensical situation plays on..and on.. What has happened to the population in the UK ? So many people were energised to protest about the Brexit debate which was modelled by many as likely having catastrophic social and economic consequences – really ? Well wtf about the impact of this madness then ? But the masses now seem content to just clap like seals for fish once a week, and then hide away to worship “our” new deity. I don’t get why there is no rebellion here, or any form of hard action. And why is there no public debate taking place on all this – with some hard talk about obesity, care homes, jobs etc. All we are fed is endless drivel of moving targets, manipulated statistics to sort the latest narrative, and corporate-style “meet the numbers at all costs” actions. I just don’t get how this once proud nation can have become so fearful, blind to facts, and lose the ability to rationalise, make judgements and live a life. How dare any of us go back to complaining about dictatorships or communist regimes around the globe, and seeking to cleanse… Read more »

58
0
Kevin Moore
Kevin Moore
5 years ago
Reply to  BrianJR

I couldn’t agree with you more.

6
0
Annabel Andrew
Annabel Andrew
5 years ago
Reply to  BrianJR

I , stupidly I realise, answered ‘yes’ to a Facebook page that asked if the lockdown should be lifted- I feel as though I may be lynched. Why are all these people so terrified? Many of them work for the public sector so their jobs aren’t in jeopardy so maybe that explains some of it. I am baffled. How do these people cope with every day life?

16
0
coalencanth12
coalencanth12
5 years ago
Reply to  Annabel Andrew

I’m starting to get a bit worried this might fracture our society even further, we could end up with another Brexit-esque split dividing up the fabric of the country; you can see how the Mail and Telegraph are kind of hedging their bets on both sides of the fence – witness the Mail stirring up trouble about ‘Covidiots’ but then publishing economic impact stories. The tone of the (notorious) reader comments in both is starting to change though, I detect a possible shift towards a more sceptical view. I also think certain Unions might use this opportunity to settle old grievances’ (rightly or wrongly) – I see the teaching unions and the RMT are on the war path, both of which will affect how the lockdown is perceived on the left wing.

7
0
BrianJR
BrianJR
5 years ago
Reply to  coalencanth12

Certainly for me a fracture, nay a full break, is there already – I have become polarised. As Fin posted yesterday – My freedom doesn’t end where your fear begins.

I am not in the “sandwich” generation, I only have teenage children. I had to deal with parental loss whilst a young adult which was both shocking but character building, we all have a choice to either succomb or recover and thrive.

But my children are being denied their basic rights to learn, to represent their schools and clubs in sports, to develop friendships and (eek, sexual !) relationships and it breaks my heart to see them denied the privileges those cowering away have enjoyed. And their reward for being “in it together” will be to be saddled with national debt and being tarred as the “corona generation” with regard to estimated, teacher assigned examination marks.

And why – because as a nation we were too afraid to call it as it is, and became obsessed with eliminating deaths that may in some cases be both an emotional and financial relief.

36
0
Nick M
Nick M
5 years ago
Reply to  BrianJR

This is what I am finding most upsetting too, and it’s not just the lockdown itself it’s the prospect of the pointless, arbitrary and fun stifling social distancing measures that will no doubt be imposed indefinitely once they do go back to school that are going to make things utterly miserable for all involved.

16
0
kvnmoore561
kvnmoore561
5 years ago
Reply to  Nick M

Yep, it’s heart breaking.

2
0
guy153
guy153
5 years ago
Reply to  coalencanth12

The political alignments are interesting and the government are trying to play them with Ferguson as a Trojan horse. John Crace in the Guardian today was having a typically hilarious dig at Johnson but stopped short of spluttering about the “it would have been 500k deaths” lie because the left still think Fergie (who now writes for the Telegraph) is on their side.

Passing up a Johnson porkie like that is conspicuous. At this rate he will be remembered as the prime minister who gave the NHS 250 million pounds a week and saved half a million lives 😂

Right-on middle class lefties all love the lockdown of course but the right is more split with no doubt some unease on the part of Johnson about how many elderly retired Telegraph-reading Tory voters with nothing to lose but their lives will punish him for appearing to go soft on the lockdown.

3
0
Paul Steward
Paul Steward
5 years ago
Reply to  coalencanth12

I’m a primary teacher, at my small rural school we are keen to return. We would appreciate time to plan whatever adaptions the government forces on us but we’re eager to get going. I recognise I’m lucky to have my wages secured but we’re not all a rabid bunch of Corbynites.

4
0
Paul Steward
Paul Steward
5 years ago
Reply to  Annabel Andrew

I’m a primary teacher, at my small rural school we are keen to return. We would appreciate time to plan whatever adaptions the government forces on us but we’re eager to get going. I recognise I’m lucky to have my wages secured but we’re not all a rabid bunch of Corbynites.

0
0
Csaba
Csaba
5 years ago
Reply to  BrianJR

Because they are led by social media that is generated by the crowd itself. I see it as herd behaviour similar that people do when they are panicking during an evacuation procedure in dangerous situations. The world is in panic mode. It is like a catch of 22. We would need a very strong wave of sane thinking that can stop it.

12
0
maudboggins
maudboggins
5 years ago
Reply to  BrianJR

Bang on Brian…but there is dissent, just not enough to be heard over the sheeple – YET.

The likelihood is the facts will be retrofitted to suit the situation after the event. Don’t forget Whitty and Ferguson go back a long way and have received more funding from Bill Gates than Imelda Marcos could spend in an afternoon on Fifth Avenue – and that’s going some.

These are old allies with a vested interest in gerrymandering facts and figures, although it escapes me why Boris is so blind to this other than the fact he is now not simply a journalist or a back bencher and has succumbed to the usual political paraplegia in order to save his ass. He’s no lolloping cartoon character anymore and I fear he’s sold out…. he started this thing by being rather matter of fact about it, “some of us will lose loved ones”, implying that we have to sacrifice the few to save the many, but seems to have completely changed tack.

Aye…summat more to this, me thinks…..

18
0
Lms2
Lms2
5 years ago
Reply to  maudboggins

There is dissent, but if it’s on YouTube it’s likely to get removed for “breaking community guidelines.”
It’s definitely in the comments sections of the websites I haunt (not the Spectator any more since they made it subscriber-only). But unlike Brexit, there’s not a political party or movement for people to latch onto. It may come if the lockdown lasts long enough.
But the establishment and media have done such a good job with the non-stop propaganda. It has me shouting at the tv, at the adverts and public announcements, ditto the radio.

14
0
Nel
Nel
5 years ago
Reply to  Lms2

Thank you…brainwashing and propaganda in every advert on tv. I turn the f’g thing off

6
0
ianp
ianp
5 years ago
Reply to  Nel

Yeah… Note the speed in which the number of food, ailment, home and patronisingly ‘caring’ supermarket and banking adverts have spread like a virus on the airwaves. God, I never thought I would miss Ray Winstone and his ‘ave a bang on that’ football gambling ads…but will celebrate the day on which they return

4
0
BTLnewbie
BTLnewbie
5 years ago
Reply to  maudboggins

I’m encouraged that the two centre-page articles in today’s Telegraph could have come straight from this website – is there about to be a sea-change in opinion?

2
0
Mark Gobell
Mark Gobell
5 years ago

Thanks for bringing Simon Dolan’s legal challenge to my attention and good luck to him. Legal action will commence on May 7th if Matt Hancock does not rectify the complaint.

Simon Dolan’s Letter Before Action to the Health Secretary, Matt Hancock :
https://static.crowdjustice.com/group_claim_document/Letter_to_The_Rt_Hon_Matt_Hancock_MP_Secretary_of_State_for_Health__DgnuEzh.PDF

MG

14
0
Anthiny
Anthiny
5 years ago

I think it’s interesting that ONS stats include all deaths where Covid suspected. I wonder if hay fever symptoms could be mistaken for Covid considering the similarity (coughs, difficulty breathing) and the fact we’re at a 70 year high pollen count:
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/health/hay-fever-sufferers-warned-over-18056004
It also looks like GPs are warning about possible confusion between the two:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-52349794

4
0
Farinances
Farinances
5 years ago
Reply to  Anthiny

I already got hauled off and temperature checked because I went to give blood and was snuffly.

1
0
ianp
ianp
5 years ago
Reply to  Anthiny

It’s the ‘2nd wave’….! ‘Stay inside!’ ‘Stay Safe!’…. Oh lordy… Now we could have weeks of paranoia from the sheep due to flippin hay fever. How convenient

2
0
chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  ianp

Yup I got a bit paranoid when I started coughing, but I also sneezed so all is good

0
0
Amin
Amin
5 years ago

While some were out whooping and banging on pots,
Mugging off our future were our familiar despots.
All cheerled by the auntie who numbers 2,2,3.

Since we’re all
“Stayin’ safe”,
Let’s discuss the motive behind this rapid loss of freedom,
Movement
And bodily integrity,

For i’ve read inbetween the lines of the of legislation that the marionette’s apparently prepared hastily,

It seems, at least as I understand it, we may no longer be fundamentally free!

And frankly,
‘Social distancing’
Started one September some
222 months back
for folk the like of me,

Yes it goes without saying…
‘We love you NHS’
and all who service thee,
But as spoke from the edge of this vast petri dish by those with hearts which see…
“Just like you we hate this
wicked flu
As we despised those
‘evil WMD’.
But we love at least as much our children growing in a land
Bereft of tyranny !

Amin Phillips March 2020

5
0
maudboggins
maudboggins
5 years ago

A LONG POST BUT BEAR WITH ME… Someone asked me how I was coping with lockdown. “Fine”, I replied. I guess according to the latest report I’m one of the 9%… I stopped short of saying “What lockdown?” in case they were of the insidious, curtain-twicthing, snitching, back-stabbing, mealy-mouthed, spiteful, cowardly, lily-livered New Brit Brigade that now seems to be de rigueur for this once great nation, and frankly I didn’t fancy a visit from the Bizzies, as I was too tempted to give the last one a slap for castigating me for travelling to work to close a barn door that had blown open. Apparently it wasn’t ‘essential’ that I went and closed it and should have allowed an entire flock of 138 sheep to trample my newly planted vegetable garden with impunity. Well, it is Wales…. So I thought I would construct: A REMINDER OF THE LEGALITIES OF LOCKDOWN AT UK PLC Driving to a different walking spot every day – legal. Stopping to sit down on the ground or on an available bench during your walk, to read Playboy or The Telegraph (or this website) whilst having a champagne picnic – legal. Going out to your shop… Read more »

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Farinances
Farinances
5 years ago
Reply to  maudboggins

Instead of watching the Daily Doom forecast, I read this. 100% happy with my decision.

9
0
maudboggins
maudboggins
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

I’d love to…but I then find I am unable to form th proper arguments with the dummies about it…so alas, I have to indulge.

However, this morning I sodded it all off and watched four episodes of The Professionals back to back whilst drinking tea…which was a welcome relief I can tell you.

7
0
Lms2
Lms2
5 years ago
Reply to  maudboggins

I’m lucky, I think, I don’t seem to have any dummies to have to deal with.
And I’m feeling sufficiently bolshy to not take any “you’re killing people by going outside” BS, possibly by countering that meeting someone else while outside has an infinitesimally small possibility that someone else down the line might die (unlikely, as I’ve been in quarantine long enough to know I don’t have it), I do know that continued lockdown absolutely will kill people, whether by suicide or by untreated disease that they’ve been too scared to have treated.

7
0
kvnmoore561
kvnmoore561
5 years ago
Reply to  maudboggins

I used to love watching The Professionals when I was growing up!

1
0
Maud Boggins
Maud Boggins
5 years ago
Reply to  kvnmoore561

It’s on every day on ITV4… highlight of my day!

1
0
AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
5 years ago
Reply to  maudboggins

VERY wise words and well put. Thank you for the post.

2
0
Maud Boggins
Maud Boggins
5 years ago
Reply to  AN other lockdown sceptic

A pleasure, A N Other….

What’s the betting the ONS get knobbled when it’s time to release the overall death stats that show we didn’t actually suffer than many more croakers during this entire French farce…. ?

I actually never thought I’d live in George Orwell’s 1984 or in a satellite Russian state but he we all are. Time to learn to sail as the only place worth being in a decade’s time is on a yacht…..

5
0
Tim Bidie
Tim Bidie
5 years ago
Reply to  maudboggins

The answers are all here. They’ve been available since 06 Feb. This Professor (John Nicholls) in Hong Kong is a coronavirus expert. Did anyone give him a call, I wonder (actually, I don’t, I can guess….)

‘Quick summary: look at the fatality rate outside of Wuhan – it’s below 1%. The correct comparison is not SARS or MERS but a bad cold which kills people who already have other health issues. This virus will burn itself out in May when temperatures rise. Wash your hands.’

‘Sunlight will cut the virus ability to grow in half so the half-life will be 2.5 minutes and in the dark it’s about 13m to 20m. Sunlight is really good at killing viruses. That’s why I believe that Australia and the southern hemisphere will not see any great infections rates because they have lots of sunlight and they are in the middle of summer. And Wuhan and Beijing is still cold which is why there’s high infection rates.’

https://www.fwdeveryone.com/t/puzmZFQGRTiiquwLa6tT-g/conference-call-coronavirus-expert

8
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Tim Bidie

Does this mean that all those people who were standing for ages in the sunshine while waiting to get into a supermarket, were actively annihilating the virus? That’s the only good reason for the lockup that I can come up with.

1
0
Mimi
Mimi
5 years ago
Reply to  maudboggins

Great post! Thanks so much for this! I’m now smiling and even giggling a little!

0
0
Maud Boggind
Maud Boggind
5 years ago
Reply to  Mimi

Mimi you naughty girl for giggling! (Assuming you are a girl) .

Don’t you know that in the Church of Lockdown giggling is verboten? Ten “Hail Hancocks” facing the wall! 😬

4
0
Mimi
Mimi
5 years ago
Reply to  Maud Boggind

Maud, I might be a girl… who knows! It’s the Internet!

Ah, and what is life without a good giggle now and then!

3
0
IanE
IanE
5 years ago
Reply to  maudboggins

Maybe Asian genes are more resistant to covid. Obviously the fact that China itself might get off rather more lightly than the West would only be a coincidence!

2
-1
old fred
old fred
5 years ago
Reply to  maudboggins

Quick question – ‘driving to a different walking spot every day’ – how far can you drive? Stock police response seems to be ‘where the time for walking is considerably more than that for driving’. Can I drive 1 or 2 hours from home, walk for 3 or 6 hours perhaps, and then go home? Is that legal?

0
0
GetaGrip
GetaGrip
5 years ago
Reply to  old fred

Don’t confuse random Government Ministerial ‘guidance’ with the law.

The Regulations require you to ‘not leave the place where you are living without ‘reaonable excuse’. No. 2 excuse being:

(2) To take exercise either alone or with other members of the household.

Apart from Wales, which Regulates this as ‘once-daily’, that limit is guidance only.

If questioned by the Stasi, sorry I mean County Constabulary, you should proffer a copy of the Coronavirus Regulations for the Officer’s perusal, politely and with pleasant smile.
He/she can’t do you for either your exercise trip, or your
unspoken ‘bug*er off’.

6
0
Old fred
Old fred
5 years ago
Reply to  GetaGrip

Thanks for that.

0
0
Maud boggins
Maud boggins
5 years ago
Reply to  old fred

That’s right. You can drive to a walk provided the total walking time exceeds the driving time.

But what a load of tosh considering if anyone had any brains they’d just say “Yes officer I plan to walk for four hours!” if he knows you’ve driven an hour!

This is a complete waste of police time and a titan infringement on civil liberties so if people lie to them it’s tough titty. This is a flu like virus not foot and mouth.

6
0
chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  Maud boggins

Agreed – and thanks for the above long post.

However what the law says and what the police do may differ significantly. Mostly I walk not far away because there are plenty of places I can go and meet few or no people.

One I met the other day decided to drive to a nearby deserted heath for a walk in the sun. When she got back to her car the police had plastered it with a notice telling her to go home and stay indoors, and that they had taken her number.

Lucky they didn’t see her, she must have been eighty if she was a day. Almost certainly walking in the sun did her far more good than staying indoors.

Don’t tell anyone but I have a couple of places where I can sit in the sun unseen from the road.

1
0
joey
joey
5 years ago

It really does annoy me when Boris says it could have been 500,000 loss of life. Please, where is the eveidence?

2
0
joey
joey
5 years ago

Please look up the Milgram experiment 1961. The obedience shown to people in white coats. You will in part see what is happening now.

5
0
OpenCorona
OpenCorona
5 years ago
Reply to  joey

Well noted – this prompted a post on OpenCorona (https://www.facebook.com/groups/224650028639377/) Cheers!

0
0
Mimi
Mimi
5 years ago

For what it’s worth: Not yet peer reviewed, but then who cares. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20078717v1.full.pdf

2
0
JASA
JASA
5 years ago
Reply to  Mimi

Excellent. Some nice maths in there for us sane scientists.

1
0
guy153
guy153
5 years ago

£100bn for a lockdown? We could have had a high speed train for that!

3
0
JASA
JASA
5 years ago

So glad about the legal challenge. I’ve been writing to lots of Human Rights firms about suspended medical treatments, but without success. Hopefully the action will at least force the government to start thinking and acting more sensibly.

6
0
BecJT
BecJT
5 years ago
Reply to  JASA

I’ve just read the pre action letter, it’s a thing of beauty (if you like that kind of thing) https://static.crowdjustice.com/group_claim_document/Letter_to_The_Rt_Hon_Matt_Hancock_MP_Secretary_of_State_for_Health__DgnuEzh.PDF

4
0
AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
5 years ago
Reply to  BecJT

I agree. Although that silly fella Hancock will have lots of help responding, I smiled at the fact that he will have to spend some time responding. He’s the real Covidiot.

4
0
eastberks44
eastberks44
5 years ago

Toby, thank you for today’s post and at last something we can do. I have given to Simon Dolan’s crowdfunder and it’s already over half way to its initial £30k target.

5
0
StevieH
StevieH
5 years ago
Reply to  eastberks44

#Meetoo

1
0
Kathryn Smyth
Kathryn Smyth
5 years ago
Reply to  eastberks44

Me too. Thank heaven for the sane people on thus site and for Toby!s excellent analysis.

1
0
BecJT
BecJT
5 years ago

Family biz took an inquiry today from a very well know chocolate manufacturer, they are after disposable gloves and paper boilersuits (like you see at crime scenes, with a hood that tucks your hair in) for their production line staff. Anyway, our suppliers- having told us June – are now telling us PPE is out of stock until the winter, you can’t get stuff for love nor money, and we have preferential arrangements with several. This means famous chocolate maker now having to switch production line staff to white doctor’s coats and washing up gloves, which are massively more expensive (plus coats have to be laundered) which – in long mutual moaning session with them about how nuts this all is, which is the same conversation we’re having with literally everyone we speak to – they said will significantly add to the costs of producing their product, which they said will inevitably lead to a price increase. Our customers are all having similar issues, so local biodigester power station kits all their guys out in disposable gear (they need eye wear, masks, gloves, disposable coveralls) as it’s a messy, stinky business, now having to buy cloth kit and get it… Read more »

14
0
Tim Bidie
Tim Bidie
5 years ago
Reply to  BecJT

I had a Chinese company (Shanghai) contact me with those kinds of products but I haven’t yet responded.

It would be interesting to know what everyone feels about future trade relations with China?

Should I get back to the Chinese company, or not?

0
0
BecJT
BecJT
5 years ago

Institute of Fiscal Studies have done a report: Recessions and health: the long-term health consequences of responses to the coronavirus https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14799

Which in my obsessive reading, I clearly missed as it’s dated 9th April (although have been scouring the news, not seen this mentioned anywhere?)

3
0
Nel
Nel
5 years ago
Reply to  BecJT

Very interesting, and very worrying, particularly this bit…
‘Economic shocks and downturns have been shown to be important during pregnancy and early childhood. At this point of the lifecycle, physical health and cognitive trajectories are being set and this has long-reaching consequences for later life health. Poverty rates increase in a recession. This may feed through to negative in utero and early childhood risk factors…. being born in a recession reduces lifespan by about 5%. ….stark and lifelong effects that early childhood conditions have on health, not just because of the biological pathways, but also as the result of the effects of in utero and early child health conditions on other economic outcomes and family behaviours. ‘

4
0
Gillian Yuille Climie
Gillian Yuille Climie
5 years ago
Reply to  Nel

I read somewhere that babies conceived and born during the Spanish flu in 1918-20 achieved, on average, lower occupational status and had shorter life spans than average.

3
0
BecJT
BecJT
5 years ago
Reply to  Nel

Yep that’s my professional niche (I’m a charity consultant, have been for twenty years), the social and health outcomes due to economic deprivation are stark and well documented (although harder to quantify than numbers of dead as there are so many variables – housing, stress, mental health, drinking, smoking, diet, social aspirations, education, healthcare and on and on and on). So if you are a poor kid, you are significantly more likely to suffer with emotional and behavioural problems (the latter is ‘acting it out’, rather than ‘acting it in’ in self harm, bulimia or whatever), if you have behaviour problems, you are far more likely to be permanently excluded from school, 50% of all young offenders were excluded from school, it’s like a horrible game of snakes and ladders.

4
0
RDawg
RDawg
5 years ago

Does anyone know much about the blog “Off Guardian”? They have published a very well researched article here:

https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/29/lokin-20-the-lockdown-regime-causes-increasing-health-concerns/

9
0
guy153
guy153
5 years ago
Reply to  RDawg

The official downgrading of COVID-19 from “HCID” status on March 19th that they mention there is interesting and something I don’t remember reading about in the Guardian.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid#status-of-covid-19

3
0
Farinances
Farinances
5 years ago
Reply to  guy153

People are saying they did to be able to alter the PPE requirements – so that they wouldn’t need to procure as many items. Why is noone considering it they did it because er…… because Covid doesn’t actually merit that status?

4
0
ThomasPelham
ThomasPelham
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

Actually I suspect it’s because anything above low status you can only treat in particular places; they had to lower it to get COVID treated in normal hospitals.

3
0
Kevin Moore
Kevin Moore
5 years ago
Reply to  guy153

The HCID list thing is what started this whole thing off for me. When I discovered that it had been removed from this list I couldn’t understand why and I still haven’t been able to find an answer to the question: if Covid19 is so bad why has it been removed from a list that states that it has to be an acute infectious disease in order to be included?

4
0
OpenCorona
OpenCorona
5 years ago
Reply to  RDawg

yep – Iain Davis is a real human, not a Russian bot. The original post is here on his own blog, republished on OffG: https://in-this-together.com/lokin-20/
To my knowledge, OffG was started by people who used to be commenters on the Guardian site. The problem is hypersensitive libs tend to scoff at accepting even editorial content on there since they assume anything they don’t agree with is Russian propaganda.

4
0
Stephen McMurray
Stephen McMurray
5 years ago
Reply to  RDawg

offguardian has been publishing excellent articles since day one of the covid crisis. They have collated statements by a number of top epidemiologists and virologists who question the official narrative. You should also watch UK Column news . check it out on Youtube. It’s on every Monday Wednesday and Friday.

4
0
chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  Stephen McMurray

OffGuardian is a pain, it won’t open in Opera, I have to fire up Firefox which tells me there is a broken certificate and I have to give it and Kaspersky permission to let me view it.

Now there’s a thing, wouldn’t Eugene Kaspersky know more about viruses than Bill Gates?

0
0
Paul Chahal
Paul Chahal
5 years ago

The last time a pandemic caused widespread concern was during the AIDS crisis. I remember feeling empathy for those affected by the awful disease which brooked no hope of a cure. Scientists took many years to understand AIDS, while we were left to speculate – I’m sure most of us of a certain age remember the urban myths peddled at the time. We were, thankfully, scared silly by the TV campaign voiced by John Hurt. Condoms became de rigueur for the right minded among us. In spite of all this, we believed a solution would be found. We fought through it, scared though we were. And, now, we have Covid-19. During the AIDS crisis, we weren’t banned from meeting people; drug users continued to take risks; people still gave blood. So, are the recent steps taken by the government in everybody’s best interests? Where, previously, we were left to roll the dice, we are now told to confine ourselves. Before this interminable lockdown, people were already behaving differently – a walking group I had joined was scheduled to meet on 22 March, but only two of us, myself included, attended. It transpired the other walkers stayed at home out of… Read more »

14
0
Kevin Moore
Kevin Moore
5 years ago
Reply to  Paul Chahal

‘Fear by proxy’ indeed!

1
0
BB8
BB8
5 years ago
Reply to  Kevin Moore

The people have been authorised to be scared stupid on behalf of the government!! Long may we prostrate ourselves before the great Johnson!!

1
0
ThomasPelham
ThomasPelham
5 years ago

Great bit of writing from Andrew Lilico here:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/01/cant-let-social-distancing-go-years-even-cost-many-lives/#comments

7
0
Farinances
Farinances
5 years ago
Reply to  ThomasPelham

This atually made me a little emotional. Honestly I think if anyone can read that and still be an unquestioning lockdown zealot, they might not have a soul.

3
0
ianp
ianp
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

Nice to see some positive comments on it as well, save for the inevitable ‘if your own son got infected’ moron.

5
0
John
John
5 years ago
Reply to  ianp

Don’t say “if” a teenage son gets infected, say “when”, and he’ll be fine with barely any symptoms at all, because the only way this ends is when we have herd immunity. The virus has killed mere tens of people in this country below the age of 30, and most of them had srious underlying conditions. There are much bigegr risks everyone faces every day.

2
0
BecJT
BecJT
5 years ago
Reply to  ThomasPelham

It won’t even come to 100k if we stop sending covid patients into carehomes and finally treat our old with dignity and respect, we could in that respect have our cake and eat it too. In fact, you can buy a lot of elderly care with £100bn, and the sooner we get herd immunity, the sooner the very frail would be free to enjoy hugs and kisses, and family parties, and time with their friends, and a potter round a garden centre, and all the things that make a life.

10
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  ThomasPelham

It’s behind a paywall. Grrr!

0
0

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