
The Times says the teaching unions are advising their members not to return to work if primary schools reopen in June. “The National Education Union (NEU) said it was unconvinced that there was any scientific basis behind government guidance issued yesterday that teachers didn’t need PPE equipment to keep them safe,” Rosemary Bennett reports. She continues: “Many parents are also sceptical that the guidelines would keep their children, family members and the wider population safe.” I was quite surprised to read that, given the recent slew of evidence that children don’t transmit the disease. But the real jaw-dropper is that Anneliese Dodds, the shadow chancellor, told the Times she would keep her six year-old son at home unless the Government provided evidence to show that going to school would not risk harming others. Does she not realise that children under 10 aren’t infectious? Across the entire world, there hasn’t been a single case – NOT A SINGLE CASE – of a child under 10 infecting someone else. What more assurance does Anneliese Dodds need?
I wonder if the shadow chancellor has signed this Change.org petition demanding the Government give parents the option of keeping their kids out of school if they reopen in June because “many of us… feel it is too early”. So far, it has had over 500,000 signatures.

The news broke this morning that the UK economy shrank by 5.8% in March, the largest month-on-month fall since records began in 1997, according to the Times. The economy shrank by 2% in the first quarter, the sharpest fall since the final quarter of 2008, when Britain was in the throes of the financial crisis. The story continues: “Official figures are likely to show a much sharper contraction in the second quarter of the year as the data will capture the full effects of lockdown, which was introduced on March 23rd. Analysts said that the latest data suggested that the economy contracted by 21% after the lockdown was imposed.”
On its front page, the Telegraph splashes with a story based on a leaked Treasury document it’s got its hands on that estimates this year’s budget deficit will be £376 billion. “The Treasury’s own ‘base case scenario’ for its budget deficit by the end of this financial year is £337 billion – more than £280 billion more than pre-pandemic forecasts,” write Gordon Rayner and Anna Mikhailova. And remember, that’s “base case”. The Treasury’s “worst-case” scenario is for a deficit of £516 billion, although in the most extreme case it could be as high as £1.2 trillion. How’s the Government going to pay for this without plunging us into a sovereign debt crisis? Tax rises, freezing public sector wages and abandoning the “triple lock” on pensions, according to the Telegraph. This would break the “tax lock” included in the Conservative Party’s last manifesto, promising not to increase the headline rates of income tax, National Insurance contributions or VAT. As one senior Conservative MP said to me at the weekend, “I’m beginning to think we may not win the next election.”
By way of confirmation, the latest YouGov poll has Keir Starmer’s approval ratings climbing above Boris’s – and Starmer made a decent fist of Prime Minister’s Questions today, skewering Boris on care home deaths. Ladbrokes is currently offering 11/8 on Labour winning the most seats at the next election, although you may get better odds elsewhere. Worth a punt, I’d say.
In other polling news, YouGov reveals that a majority of Britons have found being imprisoned in their homes during lockdown a “positive” experience. 56% of respondents think it’s “positive” compared to just 11% who think it’s “negative”. Could it be connected with the fact that Tequila sales are up 175%? To help readers understand this curious phenomenon I thought I’d post a picture of a typical Briton enjoying lockdown:

Not every country is as reluctant to resume normal life as the UK. The Swiss have accelerated their exit plans, bringing them forward by three weeks. Under the original plan, bars, restaurants, gyms, schools, museums and libraries weren’t due to reopen until June 8th, but they reopened on Monday instead. Minister of Health Alain Berset thinks bringing the timetable forward “is a good way to learn to live with the virus”. You can read more here. On the plus side, some British golf clubs will be reopening tomorrow and Jacob Rees-Mogg thinks MPs should return to the House of Commons to “set an example”.
In case you missed Matt Ridley and David Davis MP’s joint piece criticising Imperial College’s modelling in the Sunday Telegraph, Matt has reposted it on his blog. They focus on the shortcomings of the code, drawing in part on the review published on this website last week. The two parliamentarians also make the point that if critical Government decisions affecting all our lives are going to be based on computer models, the code powering those models really ought to be made public:
When ministers make statements about coronavirus policy they invariably say that they are “following the science”… In this case, that phrase “the science” effectively means the Imperial College model, forecasting potentially hundreds of thousands of deaths, on the output of which the Government instituted the lockdown in March. Sage’s advice has a huge impact on the lives of millions. Yet the committee meets in private, publishes no minutes, and until it was put under pressure did not even release the names of its members. We were making decisions based on the output of a black box, and a locked one at that.
A reader has flagged up an excellent presentation by Numis Healthcare Research Team – a real tour de horizon of what we know about the pandemic. Lots of great graphs, including the one below. Orange lines for countries that have lockdowns, black lines for those that don’t:

The Telegraph has published a very damning piece by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard. His assessment of the Government’s response to the crisis is withering, and much of it is based on an email he received from a “Covid cardiologist at a top London hospital”. Here’s Ambrose’s summary of the email, as well as some direct quotes from it:
Basically, every mistake that could have been made, was made. He likened the care home policy to the Siege of Caffa in 1346, that grim chapter of the Black Death when a Mongol army catapulted plague-ridden bodies over the walls.
“Our policy was to let the virus rip and then ‘cocoon the elderly’,” he wrote. “You don’t know whether to laugh or cry when you contrast that with what we actually did. We discharged known, suspected, and unknown cases into care homes which were unprepared, with no formal warning that the patients were infected, no testing available, and no PPE to prevent transmission. We actively seeded this into the very population that was most vulnerable.
“We let these people die without palliation. The official policy was not to visit care homes – and they didn’t (and still don’t). So, after infecting them with a disease that causes an unpleasant ending, we denied our elders access to a doctor – denied GP visits – and denied admission to hospital. Simple things like fluids, withheld. Effective palliation like syringe drivers, withheld.”
“The striking thing is how consistently the government failed, in every single element of the response, everywhere you turn (the Army excepted),” writes the doctor. “This is probably the most expensive series of errors in the country’s history.”
Reading this doctor’s email helped clarify for me that the case against the lockdown isn’t just that the loss of life it will bring about from other causes will be far greater than the number of people it has supposedly saved from dying of COVID-19 (if any). It’s also that the lockdown itself has exacerbated the loss of life from COVID-19. The fact that NHS hospitals discharged elderly patients diagnosed with coronavirus and sent them back into care homes is an appalling scandal. As Dominic Lawson wrote in the Sunday Times, it shames the nation. Heads must roll.
Izabella Kaminska wrote a terrific piece for the Alphaville section of the FT yesterday in opposition to the censorship of Covid dissent by big tech companies like Facebook and Google via the use of algorithms. She refers to this as “censortech” and the title of her piece is ‘From Fahrenheit 451 to “censortech’.” You need to register with the FT to access Alphaville, but it’s free once you have and it’s worth it just to read this piece. (Jemima Kelly, another Alphaville writer, is also top notch.)
Kaminska points out that not only is content on Facebook and YouTube being removed if it challenges the official Covid orthodoxy, but our private messages are also being policed. (Facebook has just shut down Michiganders Against Excessive Quarantine, an anti-lockdown digital group with 385,000 members.) WhatsApp, for instance, has made it impossible to share controversial clips with more than one person in an effort to limit the dissemination of “fake news”. And what counts as “fake news”? Any newsy content that’s gone viral, apparently. Kaminska found that out when she tried to share a clip of former Swedish chief epidemiologist Johan Giesecke defending Sweden’s response to the pandemic on Sky Australia’s Outsiders programme and received a message telling her she was only allowed to send it to one person. “You can dislike Giesecke’s views,” she says. “But you shouldn’t suppress them. Dissent is essential in a democracy, as is criticism of national policy via respected peers. What are we supposed to do? Pretend Sweden suddenly doesn’t exist?”
What’s so good about Kaminska’s piece is that she doesn’t just rely on standard free speech arguments to criticise “censortech”. She also tries to engage with those who believe that allowing genuine “fake news” to circulate in the public square is dangerous, such as theories linking 5G masts to coronavirus. She points out that suppression is always self-defeating – it pushes the conspiracy theory underground where it can grow unchecked by rational scrutiny and evidence-based rebuttal. Here is the kernel of her argument:
The population doesn’t want to be treated as moronic imbeciles. Most of us have the capacity to differentiate real wingnuttiness from fair and logically set-out criticism.
Besides, fake news and conspiratorial dissent operate much like viruses themselves: there’s often not much we can do about them. Sometimes, rather than suppressing them, the best way of dealing with such content is to let it circulate and die out of its own accord, due to its obvious absurdity.
Like a virus, if the content is too obscene, wacky, or obviously dangerous, it kills its own chances of long-term survival because it can be so easily debunked or argued against. Society will eventually push back with anti-fake news arguments that appeal to the logic of those infected by the false tales, or by “vaccinating” the yet-to-be exposed with measured and controlled exposure to the mistruth, albeit in the correct factual context. This is why the most destructive conspiracies only ever marginally veer away from the truth. The more logical, believable and seemingly benign they appear, the far more likely they are to survive and propagate.
Suppression of a highly persuasive conspiracy theory – say by making it more difficult to spread, or by its becoming too controversial to even mention in polite company – is rarely an effective strategy for keeping it at bay. All that does is make it even more difficult for society (in the style of an immunological response, if you might allow us to extend this metaphor) to challenge its assumptions, as then it retreats to secretive echo chambers where opposing views cannot be directed at it. This, in turn, allows such “fake news” to penetrate deep into the minds of the exposed, and indoctrinate them on a potentially irreversible level.
That last paragraph reminded me of a similar point made by Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker in a panel discussion organised by Spiked a couple of years ago about why censorship is self-defeating. He even uses the same metaphor as Kaminska, saying that far-right ideology is more likely to flourish underground because if it isn’t challenged in the public square people won’t have the antibodies to resist it. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Bad news from the Emerald Isle this morning: the High Court has refused to give permission to John Waters and Gemma O’Doherty to legally challenge the constitutionality of the Irish Government’s response to the pandemic. The judge ruled that the burden of proof fell on the litigants to show that the Government’s reaction was disproportionate to the threat posed by the virus and they hadn’t done so. Does this mean the Irish Government is legally entitled to suspend rights enshrined in the country’s constitution, and underpinned by the European Convention on Human Rights, unless the people whose rights are being denied can prove that it’s not necessary for public health reasons? Surely, the burden of proof should be on the state? Next stop: the Court of Appeal.
Good explainer here on what the Ro number means and how complex it is. An Ro of >1 doesn’t necessarily mean you’re in trouble, and an Ro of <1 doesn’t mean you’re out of the woods. For instance, you could have a country in which only half a dozen people are infected. If that number increases to 13 the following day, the country would have an Ro of >1. Not a catastrophe, particularly when you factor in that the infection fatality rate is probably ~0.2. Germany’s Ro creeping above 1 for three days in a row wasn’t a catastrophe because the number of new people infected in Germany each day is quite small – about 1,000/day, compared to 20,000/day in the UK. And it returned to below 1 yesterday in any case. When infection numbers are low, a small outbreak somewhere – such as in slaughterhouses, which is what happened in Germany – can push the Ro number above 1, but that isn’t cause for alarm. The BBC’s Science Editor, David Shukman, explains it well here.
Less impressive is this piece by Robert Cuffe, the BBC’s Head of Statistics. He reckons the real death toll from COVID-19 on May 1st was over 50,000. How did he get that figure? By adding up all the “excess deaths”, i.e. the number of deaths in the year to May 1st over and above the five-year average for the same time period. Trouble is, that involves lumping those that haven’t died of COVID-19 in with those that have. He doesn’t even consider the possibility that the lockdown itself may have caused some non-Covid excess deaths – something Sir Ian Diamond, head of the Government’s Statistical Service, drew attention to in his interview on Marr a couple of weeks ago. Must do better, Robert – and you could start by investigating why the piece of work Sir Ian said the ONS was doing on this and would be published “in the next few days” still hasn’t appeared yet. That was on May 3rd.
The German-speaking reader who has been helping this site cover some of the big Covid stories in Germany has read the report by an auditor in the Ministry of Interior that was leaked to Tichys Einblick, a right-of-centre online magazine. It’s now referred to as “the BMI report”, short for Bundesministeriums des Innern. Here are some of the highlights:
Tichys has released the full report. I’ve skimmed through chunks of it and the conclusions and recommendations are uncompromisingly clear: the global threat of the virus has been massively over-estimated, the “collateral damage” caused by lockdown measures is, and will be, “gigantic” and “given that much of this damage will occur in the near and mid-term future, it can no longer be avoided, merely reduced.”
On the lockdown measures still in place, the report says: “The state measures, together with the many social activities and initiatives originally designed to protect the population, but which as causes of the collateral damage have in the meantime lost all purpose, are in the main still in force. This report recommends urgently that they be completely removed in short order to prevent further damage to the population (in particular further unnecessary deaths).”
The report regards the panic over coronavirus as a false alarm and identifies the absence of an adequate feedback loop as the reason the over-reaction wasn’t corrected: “A major reason for the false alarm remaining undiscovered for weeks was that the framework governing the handling by the crisis team, and the wider general management of a pandemic, did not include any processes designed to detect changes in data that might point either to a false alarm, or to the threat of collateral damage – in particular where that involves a threat to life – becoming greater than the risk to health and lives posed by the virus.”
Der Spiegel was predictably dismissive of the report yesterday: “The Interior Ministry led by Horst Seehofer is having to deal with a tricky in-house issue. A researcher in the Ministry has authored a paper – without commission – on the coronavirus crisis that completely contradicts the Ministry’s position. The paper, a good 80 pages long, was (according to Spiegel sources), distributed to a large number of internal colleagues as well as externally. Last weekend it fetched up on on the right-wing site Tichys Einblick, where the researcher is being lauded as some sort of whistleblower.”
Germany is often held up as a model of how to respond to the pandemic, with politicians and commentators citing the country’s lower death rate as evidence that Boris has mishandled the crisis. But this leaked report suggests that, below the surface, the German Government made many of the same mistakes as ours: wildly over-reacting in a blind panic, convinced that if it didn’t do something hundreds of thousands of people would die – which turned out to be a “false alarm”, in the words of Interior Ministry employee. As Andrew Mahon pointed out on Hector Drummond’s blog on Monday, it’s like a remake of Crimson Tide in which the paranoid nuclear submarine commander prevails and starts a nuclear war: “Gene Hackman got his way in almost every country in the Western world.” Where’s Denzel Washington when you need him?

I’m planning to write a book about the catastrophic error governments around the world made in locking down their citizens and have been discussing titles with the pseudonymous author of the piece I published yesterday on this site called “COVID-19 and the infantilisation of dissent“. The three I’ve come up with so far are Burning Down the House, The Model that Gobbled the World and Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds Part 2. My correspondent thinks the first one is the best:
Brill titles, all of them, but my vote is definitely for Burning Down the House. It has a timeless feel to it. I guess for me the issue with a word like madness is whether we are talking about madness in the strict social psychological sense of the word, or whether this whole debacle is driven by something a little closer to textbook clinical anxiety. Le Bon’s mad crowds were driven by irrationality and active aggression. But what I see during this lockdown are crowds driven by anxiety; that is a form of hyper-rationality that causes total passivity. People who are rational (i.e. clinically normal) see risk and are prepared to live alongside it (“Okay, I COULD die of BSE; but I’m still going to eat beef because I like it”); but people who are hyper-rational (i.e. suffer from anxiety) can’t let go of that slim statistical chance that they might be the one tragic case to die/suffer from X. So rather than mad crowds full of violence and action, we’ve ended up with hyper-rational crowds that don’t want a fight… they want to hide! You can deal with mad crowds by bringing out the army. But how do you deal with hyper-rational crowds? Reasoned argument won’t work, because ultimately, they can turn any fact, model or statistic around and show you that, actually, statistically, they’re very vulnerable and could very well die/suffer at any moment. This type of thing has been bubbling away in millennial cancel culture for a while now (to “cancel” of course being to undertake an entirely passive action that prevents engagement with anything you perceive as having the potential to “harm” you). For me, what’s changed during this coronavirus outbreak is that governments have suddenly started to feed this hyper-rational anxiety like never before: “You could die. You might die. We understand. It’s okay to wet yourself. But wear PPE. Sure, stay at home. Hide. Under the bed if it makes you feel better. Here, have some free money. Bleach your carpets. Cry. Sob too. Buy a ventilator. Ebay do them. Stay safe. That’s an order.” And what’s resulted is an utterly dysfunctional society that will give some people a free pass from being proper members of society for years to come.
And on to the round-up of all the stories I’ve noticed, or which have been been brought to my attention, in the last 24 hours:
- “Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data” – Two experts on respiratory protection say masks shouldn’t be recommended for everybody
- “The coronavirus cure is now worse than the disease” – Interview on Fox News with Dr Scott Atlas, Senior Fellow of Stanford’s Hoover Institution, on why the cure is worse than the disease
- “Opposing lockdown is NOT “profits before people”” – Kit Knightly in Off-Guardian reminds us that economic contractions kill people just as surely as deadly viruses
- “Rand Paul Exposes BRUTALLY Honest Truth About Coronavirus Around Country” – Facebook post featuring the Senator for Kentucky making the case against lockdowns. Watch it before Facebook deletes it
- “World will be same but worse after ‘banal’ virus, says Houellebecq” – The jaundiced French novelist describes COVID-19 as a “banal virus” with “no redeeming qualities… It’s not even sexually transmitted”
- “How apocalyptic is now?” – Oxford political philosopher John Gray compares the coronavirus crisis to the Russian revolution in a cheerfully gloomy piece for UnHerd. “Accelerating a trend that has been underway for decades, the remains of bourgeois life will be swept away,” he says
- “One in three small firms may shut for ever, warns FSB” – Report in the Times based on a survey by the Federation of Small Businesses that seems to bear out Gray’s hypothesis
- “The new battle in libertarian thought” – Peter Franklin in UnHerd thinks a schism has emerged among freedom-loving conservatives during the lockdown, with “visceralists” like Peter Hitchens, Laura Perrins and me on one side, and “rationalists” like Matt Ridley and Tyler Cowan on the other. Last time I checked, Matt and I were pretty closely aligned
- “Will Britain end up following the Swedes?” – Yes, says Freddie Sayers, editor of UnHerd
- “The economic devastation wrought by the pandemic could ultimately kill more people than the virus itself” – Three journalists for the Los Angeles Times have woken up and smelt the (Brazilian) coffee
- “Lockdown sceptics unite!” – Kathy Gyngell, Editor of the Conservative Woman, gives a nice shout-out to James Delingpole and me and our latest London Calling podcast
- “Get a grip, we cannot stay suffocated by the state in lockdown forever” – Great piece by John Longworth
- “Come on Boris, tell a frightened nation that its fears are out of proportion” – Another fantastic column from the always-dependable Allison Pearson in the Telegraph
- “Transcript of Sumption Interview” – Someone has kindly transcribed Jonathan Sumption’s recent interview on Radio 4 and passed it on to Peter Hitchens. Sumption is the Lord Acton of lockdown sceptics
- “Boris must not allow Britain to be sacrificed on the altar of the NHS” – Ted Yarbrough, co-founder of the Daily Globe, has had enough
On Monday, Lockdown Sceptics launched a searchable directory of open businesses across the UK. The idea is to celebrate those retail and hospitality businesses that have reopened, as well as help people find out what has opened in their area – all the more urgent in light of the latest forecast of the Federation of Small Businesses, which says that up to a third of small businesses in Britain may close as a result of the lockdown. But we need your help to build it, so we’ve created a form you can fill out to tell us about those small businesses that have reopened near you. Should be fairly self-explanatory – and the owners of small businesses are welcome to enter their own details. Please visit the page and let us know about those brave folk who are doing their bit to get our country back on its feet.
Some more suggestions for theme songs from readers: “Ball and Chain” by Social Distortion, “Land of Confusion” by Genesis and “Flying Saucer Attack” by the Rezillos.
Thanks as always to those who made a donation in the last 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. It’s a Herculean task, let me tell you. If you feel like donating, you can do so by clicking here. (Every little helps!) And if you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in tomorrow’s update, email me here.
I’ll leave you with some cheering news. In Spain, a 113 year-old lady has recovered from a bout of coronavirus. Maria Branyas was born in 1907 in the United States, where her father worked as a journalist in San Francisco. Among other things, Branyas experienced the pandemic of the Spanish flu of 1918, the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939) and the Franco dictatorship. She married a doctor in 1931 and has three children and 11 grandchildren.

Stop Press: John Waters, one of the litigants in the Irish legal challenge that was knocked back by a High Court judge today, has sent me this quote:
Gemma O’Doherty and I have been refused leave in our application to obtain a Judicial Review of the Irish Government’s lockdown legislation by Judge Charles Meenan at the High Court in Dublin.
We weren’t surprised to be shot down at this stage, especially given the clear attitude of this judge, who conducted the Leave hearings with little grace and mounted a series of irrelevant and personalised attacks on us in his Judgement.
His Judgement reads like a series of splenetic tweets.
Ireland currently labours under a deeply corrupt caretaker government which has now been unlawfully occupying office for more than three months, having been booted out in an election on February 8th. The judge in question was appointed by Fine Gael, the party usurping power. Our job was to demonstrate prima facie unconstitutionality, which by asserting we failed to prove disproportionality, the judge tacitly admitted we had done. Yet he denied us access to a process — Judicial Review — of which the purpose was to explore, in the first instance, the issue of constitutionality at a deeper level. At that stage, at full Judicial Review hearing, we would need to demonstrate unconstitutionality to a higher standard of proof. The State would then be obliged to show that its breach of the Constitution occurred for reasons that were proportionate, unavoidable, urgent, etc. This, clearly, is the stuff of a full hearing, not of the Leave process, which is supposed to have a low bar — ‘arguable case’. The judge flipped the onus of proof, asserting that we had failed to show disproportionality. This is nonsense, not least because we did not submit any arguments on disproportionality, anymore than the other side offered arguments as to proportionality. It just wasn’t part of the hearing.
We’re looking at our options, which include an appeal. But the judge has postponed the issue of costs, inviting submissions, so that option is delayed. There are others, however. We are determined to take this all the way. Even though the Irish legislation has a ‘sunset clause” (a date when it lapses, November 2020) we need to expunge it from history so that no one ever dares to attempt anything like this again.









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Mass gatherings with picnics and live music advertised for Saturday
https://mol.im/a/8314605
Real or spoof? The comments from the frightened sheep are as pathetic as they are predictable
And one on Manchester
https://twitter.com/4FreedomsSake/status/1260588924910686209
“By anti-vaxxers” I ROLL MY EYES
MAYBE THEY JUST WANT THEIR LIVES BACK??
(Actually tempted by that Manchester one)
Many of the sheep’s comments suggest attendees will be mainly ‘Brexiteers’, you have to laugh….
The feeble minded have to call out anyone that disagrees with their herd mentality. Calling names is what they do and it makes them feel so much better.
Can’t attend myself, regrettably none are within easy distance for me, but if I did they’d soon see that not every lockdown sceptic is a brexiteer. We’re a broad church here and proud simply of the anti-tyranny view which binds us all together.
It’s quite simple to me. If you are scared to death of the lockdown being lifted, nothing would stop you from barricading yourself away and letting everyone else get on with their lives
True, but we need to stop indulging this behaviour. If Rishi keeps paying them to be scared to death…..
Yep, they are as ‘scared’ as Rishi is paying them to be…terrified of having to go back to work is the truth
Maybe that will be the 2nd wave… huh? Harsh to say, that’s true, but might not be such a bad thing.
Exactly what my wife said to me after one of the covid walking dead shouted at us for not being a metre away on a busy city centre street. Short of jumping into oncoming traffic how can you possibly avoid these selfish cowards. I refuse to pander to their irrational infantile fears.
Like with those very validly questioning the shaky models justifying the Climate Change Complex, the lamestream media will label those raising genuine concerns on vaccines whose trials are being rushed through as the outcasts. And as night follows day, they’ll once again declare that “the science is settled”.
Sheffield. I’m going.
Definitely going to one of them… just got to work out which one will have the bigger group of people I know.
Shame about the bampots, but I’m not going to let that stop me.
Shame about those who repeatedly brag about their financial donations, but I’m not going to let that stop me.
Everyone who cares about this issue should put their money (however much or little they can afford) where their mouth is. It’s the only thing that really makes stuff happen.
I completely agree. Slagging off those with similar ideas about the lockup, not so much.
I don’t care who is behind these gatherings, I think all lockdown sceptics should support them. I will be in Hyde Park at midday on Saturday.
That’s my opinion too. A lot of other protests get co-opted or organised by the Socialist Worker Party but we don’t see that being the headline. It’s about who attends rather than who organises, and we need people with well-presented facts to be there who can talk to the media.
I may have work on Saturday, if not I may see you there.
Yeah, I thought the same, but word going round on Twitter now is that the people organising it are the Britain First lot…
https://twitter.com/MxVivianWulf/status/1260752524715401217
It gives me pause, but my FU instinct says that there’ll be two dozen of those nutters, and hundreds or thousands who simply want our lives back, and we shouldn’t be deterred from at least going and seeing for ourselves.
I’d say the first assumption about any such claim should be that it’s probably a smear put around to try to discourage attendance.
That said, the fact that such smears are effective tells you something about the limits of our democracy. It’s just a (tiny) political party and as far as I’m concerned it’s like any other party – I don’t have to agree with any of its policies or like any of its personnel or sympathisers to accept it as part of the general political landscape. Sadly, all too many are prepared to accept that certain positions are to be forbidden and excluded from discourse just because they don’t like them or feel threatened by them.
People who don’t like a campaign will always try to attack it by pointing to unpopular people adopting that position and trying to embarrass or manipulate others out of supporting it by smearing them by association and calling for them not to “share a platform” with the taboo groups or individuals. It’s dishonest, it’s irrational, and it’s highly damaging to any remaining pretence of genuine democracy and freedom of conscience and expression in this country.
You persuaded me of the case yesterday, Mark 🙂
Good oh! Though this seemed like an apposite place to make the point again….
I’ve been receiving so many abusive messages for sharing these events in an anti-lockdown forum. The sheep are now actively coming after any arguments against their new cushy lives.
Dunno if it is real or a spoof, however it can be made real by people attending!
Going to pop along to the one in Edinburgh during my lunch break.
“what I see during this lockdown are crowds driven by anxiety; that is a form of hyper-rationality that causes total passivity. People who are rational (i.e. clinically normal) see risk and are prepared to live alongside it (“Okay, I COULD die of BSE; but I’m still going to eat beef because I like it”); but people who are hyper-rational (i.e. suffer from anxiety) can’t let go of that slim statistical chance that they might be the one tragic case to die/suffer from X. So rather than mad crowds full of violence and action, we’ve ended up with hyper-rational crowds that don’t want a fight… they want to hide! You can deal with mad crowds by bringing out the army. But how do you deal with hyper-rational crowds? Reasoned argument won’t work, because ultimately, they can turn any fact, model or statistic around and show you that, actually, statistically, they’re very vulnerable and could very well die/suffer at any moment. This type of thing has been bubbling away in millennial cancel culture for a while now (to “cancel” of course being to undertake an entirely passive action that prevents engagement with anything you perceive as having the potential to “harm” you).… Read more »
Batman vs Superman:
“He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there’s even a one percent chance that he is our enemy, we have to take it as an absolute certainty.”
Hollywood are in very good touch with the zeitgeist.
Note how it hinges on a fearful belief, not a demonstration or any external validation test. This is how the Police defend themselves when they shoot an unarmed man:
“I was afraid for my life.”
Thus is the state the great moral teacher of our time. For me, though, Nietzsche said it best:
“But the state lies in all the tongues of good and evil; and whatever it says it lies; and whatever it has it has stolen. Everything in it is false; it bites with stolen teeth, and bites often. It is false down to its bowels.“
Social media and 24 hour rolling news coverage is surely the seed of this hyper sensitivity? By mid March my Facebook feed was starting to be flooded by people sharing posts about how we were all basically going to die of CV19. As we got closer to Lockdown Day the panic being spread on FB was infectious. I could feel my own anxiety levels increasing. So I deleted FB. I actively avoided watching or listening to the news apart from getting a news update no more than twice a day. Whereas before I would have the radio on in the background all day (Radio 4 or LBC usually) I lived in glorious silence. And low and behold my anxiety levels dropped away. After three weeks of my personal lockdown away from it all I felt I had a balanced view of the reality – mirrored perfectly by this page and the articles linked to – and ventured back onto FB, to find mass hysteria and panic and fear. Yep – hyper sensitivity in all it’s hyperventilating hyperbole. There seem to be few of my friends who haven’t been totally infected. Perhaps I would be too, if I’d remained in the… Read more »
That’s true. But that’s all thanks to the Internet. We couldn’t possibly have lockdown without the Internet. At the same time the Internet gives us access to information that at one time would have had to be searched out in university libraries. Yet so few people seem to take advantage of that aspect of the Internet. Instead it’s used to turn 7 billion human beings into 7 billion sheep.
The internet has given us access, not only to the equivalent of university libraries, but also to wonderful information sites like this one!
Unfortunately most people love drama and FB is the perfect platform for them to play the isn’t-it-dreadful game. Aided and abetted by the MSM, cool reason stood no chance back in March – and is still struggling now.
There was no social media during WW1, yet young men were presented with white feathers if they were too sensible to volunteer to be cannon fodder.
Exactly. People who believe all the hype about this virus and the lockdown that has robbed them of living a full meaningful life but can’t be bothered to find out anything about it other than the lies and propaganda spoonfed them by politicians and the media really anger me. There’s loads of information out there but they don’t want to know.
There’s loads of great info out there but trouble is it is buried under crap, try to find information on anti-health and safety organisations in the UK, all you get is health and safety advice pages. Whatever was worth finding is buried so deep that you won’t find it unless you know where it is.
Dan Wooten on LBC has come around to ending the lockdown soon.
Every Monday Peter Hitchens obliterates Mike Graham around 1130am on Talkradio. Every weeknight Tucker Carlson tonight ridicules the reaction to the virus by our fearful leaders.
I did exactly the same thing and my anxiety levels dropped too. I could then see clearly precisely what was happening.
This is a great collection of observations – what is the source of this chunk of text may I ask?
See Toby’s piece above. It’s an extract from correspondence with an unnamed “dissident academic”.
Toby also published an essay by him (under a pseudonym, apparently), here:
https://dailysceptic.org/covid-19-and-the-infantilization-of-dissent/
So the treasury says we’ll spend £300 Billion fighting Covid-19 this year. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/12/exclusive-treasury-blueprint-raise-taxes-freeze-wages-pay-300bn/
Taking Imperial Colleges worst case scenario of 500,000 dead from Covid-19. Subtracting the 50,000 excess deaths we’ve already had this year gives us 450,000 lives potentially saved. £300,000,000,000 (£300 Billion) / 450,000 = £666,666 per life saved. If a more conservative 50,000 lives were saved, that would give us £6,000,000 (£6 million) per life saved.
The NHS in 2019, on average, spent £35,082 per course of 3-6 months treatment, per cancer patient. So if all cancer patients required 2 courses a year that would be ~£70,000 per patient.
So the government is willing to spend somewhere between £666,666 and £6 million to save a ‘theoretical’ life which might be lost to Covid-19 but only £70,000 to save the life of a cancer suffer who is definitely going to have a less favourable outcome.
You can’t put a price on a life, but this is absolute madness!
You also have to bear in mind that even Neil Ferguson admitted that statistically, up to 75% of Covid victims would have died this year anyway, which makes the whole thing even more insane.
Just to clarify a mistake, Neil Ferguson said up to 2/3rds rather than 70%.
I applaud your maths, Sir.
It is, indeed, batshit bonkers.
(actually I read something written by an an insurance assessor the other day, he was absolutely incredulous at the complete lack of practical risk assessment seemingly being performed by our leaders and the media- and then promptly forgot to post it here ofc)
NICE calculate treatment and drug approvals on QALY (quality adjusted life years), and will fund treatments at £30k per QALY. Drug companies all use this calculation when balancing R&D vs profit, and whether health services will adopt the treatment on a cost per QALY basis.
And bear in mind the 510,000 was the “no action” case, when nobody anywhere was proposing “no action”. In fact the government was already following a mitigation strategy, which Imperial had as resulting in 250,000 deaths.
Taking off 50,000 deaths that did occur, as you say, would give 200,000.
So even on the maximum figure of lives saved (certainly hugely overstated), and the “best case” cost scenario of £300b, the cost comes out at £1.5m per life, so to pass NICE criteria those people who would have died would have to have been expecting on average 50 years of decent quality life. And bear in mind that the vast majority were already over 60 and mostly quite ill.
‘You can’t put a price on a life, but this is absolute madness!’ – NICE has been doing it since its inception.
You have omitted the fact that over 45% are over 80 and 25,000 cancer diagnoses are being missed every month so on top of the sums you calculated they are also refusing to spend ANYTHING on those cancer sufferer, some of whom will inevitably die as a direct result.
That photo of the children is horribly dystopian. Those chalk boxes resemble psychological prisons.
I think our children have been put in a psychological prison. They are such social animals. I worry about the damage this will be doing to them.
I remember someone saying to me that children now are constantly mollycoddled and that their parents have a pathological fear of germs so with this crisis the mollycoddling and pathological fears have increased 100 times!!
It is worrying how much this has damaged children and hindered the development of social skills and ability to cope with adversity.
Friend in Paris has small kids who were looking forward to returning to school this week. Only for it to be cancelled at the last minute as the teachers refused to work and only 50% of parents willing to send kids in. They are all absolutely gutted.
The 2 metre social distancing ‘guidance’ is crippling all possibility of returning to normality. The exposure time element of 15 minutes has been lost – (see https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2020/03/04/coronavirus-covid-19-what-is-social-distancing/ ). WHO recommendation is 1 metre so either they are incredibly reckless or the current UK 2 metre rule (which ignores the 15 minute exposure time) is massively over-cautious- both cannot be correct as that would violate the laws of physics. Can anyone point me at the science behind these guidelines?
A socially distanced restaurant table requires at least 25 sq m…ridiculous
I couldn’t agree more: now that the lockdown is lifting, it is this 2 metre malarkey that will destroy us socially and economically. I wrote to the Chancellor about this as soon as I read this article:(sorry, it’s the Telegraph, so behind a paywall but you can get the gist from the title, and I have cut and pasted the most relevant bits) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/07/government-has-terrorised-britons-believing-coronavirus-will/ “Prof Dingwall said he had been told by a senior public health specialist that “we knew it was one metre but we doubled it to two because we did not think the British population would understand what one metre was and we could not trust them to observe it so we doubled it to be on the safe side”. He said: “If you think of it as a circle around a person that you are trying to protect, if it is two metres, that circle is 12 square metres, 1.5 metres that circle is roughly seven square metres, if you come down to one metre it is three and a bit square metres. “You can immediately see what difference that makes to any shop, any leisure or retail place. As you reduce the distance, the area… Read more »
Toby if you have any contacts who are antilockdown and supply the kind of services that are primarily online rather than local (so probably not appropriate for your geographic businesses section), it would be great if you can supply them here (obviously, assuming they are willing to be outed). I would rather use an antilockdown graphic designer, programmer, web services provider etc than one who is with the majority view, right now.
Teachers aren’t the only education professionals wimping out. University management teams are being coawrds too, despite many of the lecturers* and researchers* wanting to get back to jobs they love. Would be good to have some level of movement to get university research restarted again, every day it is delayed is a day less progress towards a better understood and better medically and technologically equipped world, and a chance for other (braver, more rational) countries to make new discoveries before us. Imagine how many lives could be saved if people studying thrid world non-covid diseases, or cancers, could get back to work and get on with developing cures, and all being held off by a pesky coronavirus which poses barely any risk to anyone.
*Those in the sciences don’t fit the typical “left-wing” description so often stereotyped for arts Profs, in the sciences we couldn’t give a damn about politics until some idiot politician starts nanny-stating in the way of our work
TBH I can imagine lots of researchers are loving it if they can do their work from home (and most can with a decent internet connection). They hate teaching heh. Any excuse not to teach and just concentrate on their own research.
So if they’re still getting paid for research only, no teaching. They’ll bloody love it.
Not all the ones who need to be in a lab to get things done, we f*cking hate it.
That’s not most of you though…..
Nonetheless, some of us HATE it, and by heck do we REALLY HATE it. We hate being trampled on by all the cowardly management, who, having scarcely ever any real work to do and taking no pleasure in that which they do complete are the ones just loving this WFH nonsense.
✊✊✊ i feel you
Working at a university sucks. Less active researcher, more social care nurse, having to deal with fat, moronic, self-entitled students all day. A total fucking nightmare. I’m hoping I’ll be made redundant due to COVID-19. Unlike my students, I’ll be able to fill in all the forms at the job centre.
Wow man. Maybe you should change careers.
My partner is a security guard at a university but was told not to go in. Still getting paid at the moment but for how much longer if they’re not going to reopen for a while? Obviously the professors will be quite enjoying all this time to do research from the comfort of their sofas, but we are on the breadline anyway – if my partner looses this job we have no fallback & will probably get evicted. Terrified.
Just quick a recommend of the ‘No Agenda’ podcast which has been deconstructing the mainstream media for years. This site has had more than a few mentions on the last few episodes, Like minded fellows.
Look at that picture in Toby’s daily report
Children at a primary school in France playing alone in chalk ‘isolation zones’ to maintain social distancing
It must be the best example ever that common sense has been the prime victim of this virus and it’s deadliest aspect
Exactly – they are not even ‘playing’, they are just sitting or standing – just existing.. all but one don’t even seem to be attempting to communicate with any of the others; they look totally confused, unsurprisingly..
The technical term for such goings on is ‘fucking obscene’.
“As Dominic Lawson wrote in the Sunday Times, it shames the nation. Heads must roll.”
And surely sooner or later we must confront the issue that Johnson’s head must be one of them.
I just cannot imagine going into the next election with a choice between on the one hand the supposedly conservative PM who thought copying China in putting the entire population in house arrest and empowering policemen to arrest people for sitting on park benches was even a remotely acceptable policy response to a glorified flu, and on the other the latest incarnation of Blair leading the Re-New Labour Party.
He must go.
Given that as far as I’m aware no senior member of the Conservative Party stood up to be counted against lockdown (happy to be disabused if anybody knows of one), who is the least damaged prospect for a replacement?
I’m more disillusioned than ever. If a conservative, supposedly libertarian PM oversaw this new socialist police state, we can only imagine the alacrity with which it would’ve proceeded under a labour administration. Makes a mockery of our supposed democracy. The only opposition we’ve seen is to how the lockdown has been handheld. Where is the opposition to the whole thing? Seems like they’re just keeping up appearances to keep the lie of democracy alive.
Boris Johnson has never been “conservative” in any deeply philosophical sense. He’s a Hollow Man, traversing that same conviction-free path first marked out by the likes of Clinton and Blair. Indeed, I think there’s a quote out there somewhere from one of Clinton’s advisors, talking off the record to a journalist during his first presidency in the 1990s. “Oh, sure – he tacks this way and that,” the advisor said, “depending on the way the wind’s blowing. But he’s got a plan, and he sure as hell knows where he’s going.” “Where’s that?” replied the journalist. “Back to the White House for four more years.”
Correct, but where exactly was the opposition, and where was all the pressure? This has all been completely manipulated from the start, am sure of it.
I would look at other countries and their lockdowns… and the fucking masks.
But, unless I hear the words ‘masks will be compulsory’ from his mouth, then I am sure he is stoking up the population to push back and take our freedom
I won’t protest against masks, uncomfortable and close to useless, but if they make the sheep calm down and take back all their other liberties (and their livelihoods) then that is ok by me. If a piece of cloth over the face is the price for getting back everything else then its an ok price to pay. This compares to a foolish lockdown which simply drags out the period of suffering, ruins quality of life and will likely lead to many more deaths in its aftermath than COVID could, lockingdown so as to “save” the tiny numbers COVID is a threat to is NOT worth that price.
Sadly many of the politicians need to go. They didn’t nip this crap in the bud.
It’s almost like we need new political parties, all of which reduce the size and influence of government.
Oh and of course stop all funding of the BBC
We need our own Salvini, however the FPTP electoral system makes rocking the establishment boat virtually impossible. We are truly, drones
Please don’t abandon FPTP. We did here in New Zealand and IMHO it results in political paralysis. This is because under a proportional system no party ever gets 50% or more of the vote and has to do deals with centrist parties.
Would Maggie have rammed through her changes with the Lib Dems?
I should say that having bigger parties forced to do deals with anothr party would be good for helping parties which support an under-recognised cause (individual liberty and anti-authoritarianism in our case) get into a power-broekr position. We must remember than it was the Lib Dems in the 2010-2015 coalition who help the crimes-against-humanity of the snoopers charter at bay until the tories got a majority of their own in 2015. Having little parties to moderate the big oens is good, makes dictatorships harder to establish.
In short, get rid of FPTP and switch to something which gives a better say to everyone, prop rep or single transferrable vote or additional member systems.
They are all, cynically, attempting to preserve their own political skins – a disgusting display, not a single ‘leader’ on the Front Bench, tragic
Looks like I’ll be spoiling my ballot for the 10th election in a row
Sad that you feel that you have to spoil your ballot paper, but I fully understand why you feel you cannot support the current crop of prospective politicians.
If just one MP would stand up and say this is wrong, it may give us, the electorate a glimmer of hope.
Current crop? Sadly I have never voted for anyone in my life. I’ve never felt able to.
As I said somewhere before I’ve always felt like a Labour voter from the 1970s lol
And that Labour Party is long dead. Long, long dead (killed by Blair).
I share your sentiments but many people died to get you that vote. You should at least go and write something derogatory on the ballot paper.
I’ve always voted for someone; not usually an easy choice and often best of the worst. Next time, though, I think I’m with you Farinances – none of the above (unless Toby, Peter Hitchens or Lord Sumption are in the running…)
We haven’t had a ‘conservative’ Government this side of Mrs Thatcher
And she put a lot of this stuff into motion.
I just refuse to vote unless I can truly vote FOR someone as opposed to against someone worse. People say I’m naive. I like to think I’m idealistic.
Do make sure to register to vote and then spoil your vote then, spoilt votes with slogans on them saying what you would vote for have to get read by MP candidates, they aren’t worth much but they show that at least someone somewhere considers a particular issue worthy of deciding their vote. Not voting at all just gets fully ignored completely and doesn’t show why you think all parties inadequate.
See above 😉
That just adds to the turnout, impying that you support this phony democracy. It’s one big puppet show and whoever’s in charge, be it Boris, or Sir Max Headroom, they’ll just be reciting someone else’s script.
I was always generally a Boris fan, even loved the HIGNFY , Boris and the elephant trap sketch. Back when hignfy was funny!
Anyway massively disappointed in Boris now and majorly pssed of with the Conservative party.
As you say above. Who do you vote for. At this rate no one.
I have yet to meet any Eton College alumni that I feel able to trust
Steve Baker did at least speak against it..
David Davis (he has always been my favourite tory) is now on board with us. But only recently.
He’s no doubt seizing a chance to backstab.
I hope he succeeds.
If the world ever returns to sanity, the people reponsible for this should face Nuremburg style trials. Sociopathic gobshites the lot of them.
I think the likes of Ferguson and MSM stalwarts like Piers Morgan should be punished for helping bring this country down on its knees and ensuring that we will be picking up the pieces from the socio-economic fallout from this for many. many years to come.
Anyone ex military types on here up for forming a Morgan snatch mob?
The SAGE committee people who advised deliberately terrorising the population should face criminal charges too.
Yes to all the above
Rory Stewart?
Haven’t heard his take on it. He’s always been a bit curate’s egg for me – quite well informed and sometimes very astute, but far too keen on silly post-imperial adventures.
But beggars can’t be choosers and if he were to come out antilockdown that would be good enough for me atm.
It sounds like the serelogical tests are being released tomorrow, and won’t be good news according to leaks – 10% in London and 3-4% outside on average, giving us a high IFR in the UK; 0.8% in London and 1.5% outside – although these need to be weighted by the demographics of the people who are getting it.
Strikes me that 2 things are strange – firstly that London is lower than the rest of the UK – elsewhere urban centres tend to have higher IFRs. Secondly that they are so much higher than the Swedish results from Stockholm.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see – the leaks could be wrong.
Lol how many people did they test? 12?
I think we can probably trust the ONS and Oxford Uni to get a representative sample.
I don’t trust the ONS for shit after what they’ve been doing to fiddle the death figures.
Oxford however…..
Well, I don’t!
Assuming those numbers are correct (and that there’s minimal lag; in reality testing turnround time + seroconversion time is probably longer than average time from infection to death), the high IFR would most likely be explained by the insane care home discharge policy.
Say ~50% of deaths in care homes and the IFR for the remainder looks much more in line with other areas.
10% seropositive would be in line with other hard hit areas. It also does look likely that the threshold to keep R below 1 is much lower than 1-1/R0 in any case, maybe 10%-20%.
Do you think that Re would be below 1 even without a lockdown in London then?
Yes. Considering the R is supposedly lower than 1 in Stockholm where they NEVER HAD LOCKDOWN.
Depends on lots of things, including heterogeneity and susceptibility. London threshold is probably going to tend higher than most places because of the enforced contact on public transport etc. but on the other hand those same factors might give inherently lower susceptibility.
Actually yeah good point. If the R is supposed to be lowest now in London (because they were ahead), then 10% atnibodies would seem to marry that up. But TBH I’m questioning literally all the figures, the R number nonsense, and just about every ‘offcial’ number now on the basis that they’re saying people with terminal cancer are dying of covid.
” they’re saying people with terminal cancer are dying of covid.”. Which is very deliberate I might add.
A lot of people have forgotten everything that they suspected and knew way back in March about the virus. Everyone has probably got it, already had it. It’s really that simple.
The next time you see some stupid media ‘scare story’ saying child/granny/anyone died ‘of’ covid after something bad happens, witness the hysterical comments boards of those infected by Fear.
Then simply ask the question – what if dead person already had covid before said ‘incident’..?
Sow the seed of doubt as you go…
Yep you are dead right. I think the total world fatality increase for this year will be zero? There is no excess mortality.
Don’t you think the younger folks who didn’t get to A&E in time with appendicitis etc would increase the numbers?
Well there is a bit – SO FAR. Over the whole year I suspect not so much.
What would be REALLY interesting would be the drop in numbers dying of other causes, eg. heart attacks because of course no-one ever dies of anything but covid
I also forsee an increase in non-covid deaths going forward resulting from the lockdown and paranoia, it’s going to be hard to unpick
And counting deaths in hospices as covid.
Is this a leak as it seemed to be in the news on Monday:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-coronavirus-192546668.html
If the lockdown has been a success, there’s no way we could have caught the virus and developed antibodies. We can’t win, can we?
😂😂 no
Well, it’s not the full paper.
Younger demographic in London? Or perhaps that healthcare is so much more accessible? (Speaking from personal experience).
“This is probably the most expensive series of errors in the country’s history.”
It’s always a “mistake”.
I know, I know, it’s psychologically incredibly painful even to contemplate that these things can be done deliberately. but the oldest question of criminal investigation is this:
“cui bono?”
Who profits?
Who profited from the monstrously inflated number of deaths due to the policy of seeding elderly care homes with already infected patients? Who massively increased their financial and political control over the population? Whose crackpot clay models were (admittedly very partially) vindicated thereby? Whose extreme power grabs, e.g. trying to rush through legislation giving extraordinary police powers to invade your homes and places of businesses without due process of law, were justified on the basis of the death toll on our elderly relatives?
Instead of cowering in our beds we ought to be rioting on the steps of parliament.
A mistake?
No, a crime.
It is indeed, but who are the big players most likely to benefit?. Not the government specifically is it? This has been almost every government in the world
As with anything: follow. the. money…
As you say, follow the money.. Which American eugenicist and vaccine promoter has basically ‘bought’ all the main players – Neil Ferguson, Patrick Vallance, Chris White and Matt Hancock, to name just a few???
They also changed the abortion law with no Parliamentary debate, despite Matt Hancock saying in Parliament that they had no plans to do so and that the inclusion of that particular clause in the coronavirus act was a clerical error. As soon as Parliament had closed, they went back on their word and that clause went through..
Jesus, what’s the new law?
Given that teachers are supposed to be intelligent, sensible and be able to be rational, do we really want these hysterical teachers teaching our children if they cannot see how the illusion of deadly lurgy is being forced upon them ?
I’m a teacher and I’m totally up for school resuming!
Thank god for you Bob
Well done indeed!
It’s the teachers’ unions, not the teachers, who are spouting this terrifyingly cowardly and uninformed crap.
Does that mean we’ll see them all back at work in june? 😉
The scared headteachers carefully chosen to testify on the Beeb can’t be helping.
Total GLOBAL CV19 deaths about 280k ( remember these include anyone with a cough who died of cancer) = Total panic By governments and the media
Total global deaths from malaria. 435k. EVERY year. = give a shit-o-meter equals zero
crazies wearing masks while driving cars on their own.
If the public sector, MPs, House of Lords were all sitting at home on 80% pay capped at 12500 per year maybe there would be more of an out cry.
Seasonal flu deaths, globally between 290000 and 650000 each year (verified numbers). This years flu season ended 4 weeks earlier than it has ever ended before, ever, ever ever ! That just tells me a lot of flu patients are being written up as covid patients. (perhaps it’s more profitable to do so)
Exactly. In the uk Flu deaths this year are exactly zero.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/05/05/covid-19-is-a-statistical-nonsense/
Have a read of this to see the nonsense of the recorded deaths in the uk
Interesting yes. We can assume some of them are flu, simply because our government reported the flu numbers to the WHO.
This link is to the WHO flu monitoring site.
https://apps.who.int/flumart/Default?ReportNo=12
Select the UK for the country, and dates between week 1 and week 20 of this year. The flu cases have been reported, they could be compared to the previous year to see if they’re in a similar range of values. These are not deaths, just reported cases, I’m not sure how they report deaths but obviously some of these could be deaths
After a brief check myself, this years flu numbers are about 1/4 of previous years.
Yes daily mail screaming 400+ more deaths “announced” today. Who announced? They are simply passing the buck rather than looking up the numbers.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/05/COVID-19-daily-announced-deaths-13-May-2020.xlsx
NHS England reporting 244 “yesterday”
“Yesterday” means actual 40 yesterday.
The rest are dating back to March 27th.
Handily broken down to age groups.
Zero below 40 yrs
40-59= 1
60- 79= 15
Over 80 yrs old =24 deaths
The majority of older people are the poor souls expelled from the hospitals prior to lockdown “to save the nhs”
Expelled back to the nursing homes where no medical treatment was available or no GPS were visiting.
Shameless and disgraceful situation by a the government.
Yes the charade continues and the whole country locked up and business crippled.
Who bothers to report that they have flu? Surely only the hospitalised ones get recorded?
Is there a CQC points mean prizes thing going on with covid, like there is with everything else?
It simply means front loading the numbers into one huge death curve. Lockdown will only be loosened for quite a while.
The time needs to be spent wisely, gathering support against this total nonsense. bit by bit until the masked gimps are in a tiny minority.
But – they are! How many of them do you see in the Commons these days?
Possibly you missed the bit about capped pay!
Lol
Denmark not expecting 2nd or 3rd waves
Looks like they are going for a aggressive track and trace.
https://www.thelocal.dk/20200512/second-wave-very-unlikely-says-danish-health-chief/amp?__twitter_impression=true
Denmark, together with the UK is another country which has very suspiciously low flu reporting figures for this year
Not that suspicious at all… Unfortunately this is a long political game being played on a world scale. The most important part of it is actually us, going out there about our normal lives as much as possible. It’s that simple.
And… this is the important bit, not get (too) angry or mad at people locked in their Fear prison. They will lose (god knows how they can cope with this), just try and bring them out of it if you can. Some will be a lost cause.
The sooner you do it the better
Ooh…..interesting, people being urged NOT to attend. Who is up for going?
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5590580/coronavirus-scotland-police-covid-19-lockdown/
& Also….more fear & doom reporting on Yahoo (again)
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/kawasaki-disease-teenager-dies-london-093207625.html
At last. I will be at the green on Saturday.
FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I didn’t need a mask to visit the supermarket for the last 5 weeks, why on earth should I need one now?
Move to Wales – we don’t need them here
We aren’t allowed to cross borders, so can we turn up illegally and claim asylum?
It works at the Channel ports!
A pair of underpants (ladies or gents) make an ideal face covering, why over-complicate? 😉
Washed first I trust.
Or wear them inside out?
Omg. Tempted to give up my no mask policy for this
You don’t. It’s that simple
No masks worn by customers in my supermarket tonight. Unusually, the cashier wore one – she gelled her gloved hands too. She must be new, the regulars stopped doing that after the first week!
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data
Please, please could someone influential send this to She Who Must Be Obeyed and ensure that she reads and takes note?
Masks are a waste of time!
Grubby scarves, home made coverings for nose and mouth and dodgy surgical masks bought on ebay don’t do any good.
And chucking them anywhere but a bin is not a good idea.
O please can we grow up and regain our sense of personal responsibility and independent thought, based not on panic and virtue signalling but on rational judgement.
And the NHS is not a divine entity, worthy of unquestioning sacrifice and adulation; it’s a public service which is valuable but not infallible.
It does not require clap fests, excessive emoting or slavish slobbering paeans.
If so,you could always ‘resurrect’ it…😉
But better wait for the third day – makes it more religious!
Leave a few more, and keep leaving them.
Another song suggestion: Cliff’s “Sing a Song of Freedom” – “It’s the time for liberation so pass the word around”
Or, ‘We’re all going on a summer holiday’?
Or ‘Living Doll’, if the lockdown goes on indefinitely…..
I like that one, because I certainly am! Even if I have to swim, drive or walk all the way to Greece.
“Many of the group organisers appear to be conspiracy theorists who question how serious a threat coronavirus poses, and are angry at the imposition of lockdown rules. ”
Hey, we resemble that remark!
Daily Mail talking about the organisers of mass anti-lockdown parties apparently planned for this Saturday, whilst doing an excellent job of advertising them!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314605/Coronavirus-UK-Mass-gatherings-picnics-live-music-advertised-Saturday.html
It will be interesting, since my house overlooks one of the parks apparently chosen for these parties (I won’t say which one, for obvious reasons). My betting is if this gets any traction they’ll close the park.
“Mass gatherings were banned by the UK Government on March 16 as the crisis intensified, one week before the full lockdown was imposed on March 23.
Politicians said at the time that the risks of transmitting the disease at mass gatherings was relatively low, but banned them to avoid burdening the emergency services by having to attend the events.
These rules have not changed since the lockdown was eased today, despite people now being allowed to meet one person from another household in a park.”
And just spotted that in the Mail article.
Laws introduced on one pretext and then kept in place long after that pretext has ceased to apply? Gosh, who’d ever have thought a government would do something like that, eh?
Maybe you should take a horse and claim it’s Cheltenham Festival?
I really object to being called a conspiracy theorist when it is plain as the nose on everyone’s face that the lockdown is just plain bonkers.
It’s one of the commonest of the various smears used to delegitimise, demonise and discredit dissent from the mainstream. You get used to it after a while, if you are in the habit of not toeing the line.
I used to really object to being called a conspiracy theorist following 9-11, when it was as plain as the nose on everyone’s face the official explanation was just plain bonkers. 🙂
Welcome to the club, Annabel.
Amazed that the “media” is making such a fuss about recent economy figures. That the economy has shrunk is broadcast as a sudden revelation. What will they say when the figures for April to June are published.
Yet another case of sudden media realisation of the blindingly obvious. What world have they been living in??
Once we’ve bottomed out we should expect phases of successive leaders saying how much of an improvement each one makes. Well when you’re at the bottom there’s only one way to go
I seem to remember one T.Bliar saying that!
Economic Recession Due To The Corona
Er no. Due to the LOCKDOWN.
Dear Toby Young
Thank you so much for running lockdownsceptics.org site which I enjoy every day. You have it bang on. The virus has introduced a modest element of risk into life and British public have been scared out of their wits. We have become so frightened as to accept extraordinary repression of our basic freedoms, and extraordinary damage to our economy of which we are merely in the foothills. We have lost the courage of our wartime grandfathers, and become overwhelmed by fear. Part of the problem is that people are unable to digest the risk. This site does a great job of helping people get things into proportion.
Extraordinarily, as you and many others have said, we still have little idea of how lethal SARS-CoV-2 is. With such a wide range of estimates of the Infection Fatality Rate; and we have little idea of when the epidemic would naturally peak since neither do we know the herd-immunity-threshold. According to ONS website
(https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurvey/england10may2020) the first results of the ONS Coronavirus (COVID-19) Infection Survey are due on 14 May 2020 (see ) which may shed more light on the IFR.
“Peter Hitchens: End this lockdown lunacy NOW! Britain MUST get back to business before it’s too late
Why does the Government continue to cower in fear of the virus? By not letting business get back on its feet, Boris Johnson is single-handedly strangling the economy, argues our columnist”
Peter Hitchens on good form!
https://www.mailplus.co.uk/tv/60-second-sound-off/6839/peter-hitchens-end-this-lockdown-lunacy-now-britain-must-get-back-to-business-before-its-too-late
This man was a sort of bete noir when I was a student, you hated the tories and you hated Hitchins. I’ve come to really admire him through this, he’s stuck to his principles, never insults anyone, takes enormous amounts of flack, and just keeps on trucking, he doesn’t even mind if people disagree, if they’ll debate him civilly. How prominently is that feature plugged by the Mail?
Story about Hitchens.
Same. When I was a student you hated The Daily Mail, all Tories, and the ‘middle classes’. (Last one always made me laugh considering most people who said this sort of thing went to private school and where I come from noone who goes to private school is middle class. They are rich.) I was always a little sceptical of this attitude. But every time I saw Peter on TV he genuinely pissed me off.
However. I went to my university’s media awards. Peter was a guest. Being a combative little stropper, I marched right up to him in the bar afterwards and began being an arse basically. But Peter was actually very nice, he didn’t lose his cool with this idiotic teenager. We ended up having a heated but very productive discussion about all sorts, after which he bought me a very expensive cocktail.
It was that episode – and indeed Peter himself – that taught me never to judge people on the expectations of others.
Lord Sumption is mine. Closely followed by Peter.
And Toby actually! How can we forget him! Thankyou Toby!
I honestly feel like I’m being rebuilt from the ground up, a massive recalibration of values, ideas, ideals, everything. In fact I’ve realised (over this, and over brexit and many other things over the years) that my ‘beliefs’ are in fact largely emotions, wanting to be in the ‘right’ crowd, and generally based on quite shocking political ignorance! I have a great deal of time for civil debate, good natured argy bargy, civility, critical thinking it turns out, no matter who says it. My dad is upper middle class Tory, paid up member, he’s Tory in the same way he’s church of england, rugby not football, etc etc, that’s just who he is. When I was a teenager and student, I said some vile, hideous things to my dad, I just thought he was a tw@t. I feel a bit the same way now about what I used to think about Peter Hitchins. I had absolutely no idea what I was talking about (which I hope is a realisation that hits a few young lockdown zealots in about 15 years!) And haha re ‘middle class’, I do remember sharing many a black cab ride with those dudes, and how they… Read more »
Not sure how much they are pushing it because I’m not that familiar with the Mail, I only found this because I’ve been following his blog during this crisis.
I’ve always quite liked him, because he’s broadly on my political side and he was upright in opposing the Iraq War which all too many on the right were not. But I don’t agree with him on everything, and actually only found out about his stand on this covebola panic when my son, who likes him and reads him regularly, flagged it up for me back in early March I think.
I can definitely understand your slightly conflicted feelings about Hitchens here, because I had similar feelings over some upright figures on the left when I found them sharing the trenches with me in opposition to the various wars we’ve been dragged into. It’s usually the ones, like Peter, who are respected but generally outside the power structure, precisely because they are men or women of principle rather than slimy greasy pole-climbers.
Yeah me too. And I had no idea he opposed the Iraq war, the only political demo of my life was that one! Although don’t hate me, I’m starting to think he’s got a point about morality (God, what is happening to me???).
“the only political demo of my life was that one”
Mine too. (We conservative types aren’t big on demos.)
“I’m starting to think he’s got a point about morality (God, what is happening to me???).”
You’re …. growing up?
[ducks for cover]
You know what the Americans say: “if you aren’t a liberal when you’re young, you have no heart, but if you aren’t a middle-aged conservative, you have no head.”
Haha, I’m not a simpleton I promise, always been a thinker, but it’s a bit like something has happened to the magnetic field and north isn’t where it used to be.
And my dad just used to laugh at my rants and say ‘you’ll agree with me when you’re older’. I have a horrible feeling the old bugger might be right.
I think more than anything, just becoming more pragmatic, and seeing life how it is, rather than how you’d wish it to be.
I have a feeling your dad’s going to be insufferably smug for a while, after you get drunk one Christmas and let all this spill out….. 🙂
when i was an apprentice in the 80’s i hated the lefties. I hated how they all went to college on the tax i paid on my low wages while they sneered at people who supported Mrs Thatcher. I always smile to myself when i see some 40 odd year old finally work out they were conservative all along only they couldn’t admit it then because they didn’t have the balls to admit to their friends for fear of being hated.
Disagree it’s lack of balls, it’s just frame of reference, plus it’s kinda normal as a teenager to rebel against your parents, so if they say black, you say white. I agree about the sneering, my mum grew up absolutely rock bottom poor, on a scale people today would find shocking, that side of the family are brickies, plasterers, roofers, market traders, so always had a foot in both camps (and come up against some hideous snobbery from posh people for not being posh enough, and some pretty awful reverse snobbery from ‘working class’ people for being too posh, couldn’t win). None of us are immune from wanting to belong, I don’t think.
Surely theye’re not cowering in fear of the virus but are afraid of losing face?
Hey All,
Just a wee reminder. Tomorrow night (Thursday) at 8:02pm is the Tweet-Bomb. I‘ve been pushing and sharing it as much as I can, but it will only work with your support.
Further details here: https://twitter.com/WeWillBeFree82
(Apologies Toby for hijacking your blog to drum up support, but this really needs a huge number of people to make it effective).
If this is successful, I also have some other sneaky activist plans to put pressure on the government. All legal I might add. 😉
Cheers
R Dawg 🐶
I do not know what you have planned, but please could it include actions that are possible for people who do not have Twitter or other social media?
Hi Carrie,
This is a very good point. Before the lockdown I refused all social media because I personally hate it. I only set up the account as a campaigning tool – a kind of necessary evil. In the short term, I’d recommend setting up a Twitter account (takes less than 5 mins) purely to support this campaign. You need only use it, for the mass Tweet, and nothing else.
However, I will get thinking about other campaigns we can do. However it is v hard to communicate and gain traction without social media in 2020. In fact, it’s arguably social media that is perpetuating the fear and panic for lockdown zealots.
All suggestions welcome. If we come up with something ethical, clever and not illegal, I’m sure Toby would support it…?
Stickers work quite well, I think you need to check what adhesive, as it counts as ‘littering’ or flyers under windscreen wipers, could do the supermarket carpark, back of loo doors in Sainsbury’s, etc etc. Create a template and people print them off. Letters to the editor of local papers also good. Or, in an ideal world 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwMVMbmQBug
I’m getting myself some t shirts printed with anti-lockdown messages on them. Whenever I’m out I can be advertising our cause.
What’s your slogan on the t-shirt?
I don’t use Twitter but I know that MPs do, so it’s the best place to start.
Asia with its massive population has a very low death toll compared to Europe and America, why is that ? Is it because they are counting just Covid deaths, where we are getting mixed up with flu, pneumonia etc or do they have immunity from previous outbreaks or are they just healthier ?
Think this needs looking into from bigger brains than mine.
Difficult to get good data, but, India in particular is anomalous. Last year they did a few thousand flu tests every week (wk 5 to wk 20) which returned a few hundred positives.
This year the rate of testing was only a few hundred per week (wk 5 to wk 7) which returned a low number of positives, but there has been no flu testing since wk8 onwards.
I’ve used the WHO flu monitoring site here https://apps.who.int/flumart/Default?ReportNo=12
Chances are they are testing more thoroughly, so they know that huge numbers have it and therefore the proportional death tolls are pretty low. In Europe and the USA only the serious susected cases, hospital worthy, have been tested for it, so it looks like our IFR is higher because we know about less of the mild cases which are happening all the same. Looking at Uk figures we’ve seen 33K deaths but only 230K positive tests, however with an IFR assuemd between 0.1% and 1% we can expect that between 1.6M and 17M people have had it.
Thailand has done hardly any testing and has had 3k cases and 51 deaths. I just think they are reporting actual figures, their flu and pneumonia numbers are on track to be average.
Despite that, they are under curfew and you get your temperature taken at the door of the shopping centre. Oh, and you have to wear a mask to be allowed in.
It’s done no harm to the very unpopular military ruler there to impose a completely pointless lockdown. So many places around the world have had there anti government protest movements cut off at the knees.
Yes… and THIS is the critical point. They have created a subservient nation. Whereas, here in UK (and some other countries) you are allowed to choose.
Don’t forget this, so simple choose to go outside, without a mask, and do what you normally do, but observe the only thing required of you : 2m distance.
You can talk to others, thats the point
For now …..
It could also be due to genetics – the flip side of what seems to apply to those with very dark complexions; combined with, I suspect, a much lower level of obesity.
In the famed ‘inject yourself with bleach’ Trump conference he was actually responding to a doctor who had been up before him, who among other things, said the virus was basically instantly killed outdoors at 26c or higher. Funny how that bit of information was neglected in favour of more Trump bashing. Especially as half of America would have such a climate.
Is it posible that Trump in his incoherent childlike way expresses what is being said in briefings. Apart from the injecting bleach part, a lot of what he says is in line with what a lot of scientists are saying. For example, that corona virus is no worse than seasonal flu and that like seasonal flu it will go away. Dr Birx explained his bleach comments saying that the President’s remarks was his way of processing the information he was getting. The anti Trump US media like to portray people like Fauci as the “adults in the room and that Trump should just be ignored and that lambasting Trump for contradicting his own team. What if it was the other way round.
Donald Trump’s warning on March 23 will always ring out: “we cannot let the cure be worse than the problem”, as he put himself into the hands of his experts.
The ‘wodka and saunas’ approach has scientific basis ? Cool.
One of my sons lives in Hanoi so I’ve visited Vietnam several times in recent years and travelled around with him and his family. The first and most blatantly obvious difference is that you will struggle to find many elderly people. The Vietnam War is in large part responsible for that, followed by an explosive level of growth in more recent years. Elderly people exist but there are very few as a proportion of the visible population, the vast majority of whom are under 45. Secondly, you will struggle to find anyone who is obese. Thirdly, the diet does not consist of fast food and microwave meals. Fourthly, Vietnam is a one-party state and was able to introduce its measures extremely fast. Whether those measures will generate a sustainable solution to the virus is another matter. Those will do for starters and some or all play a role in other Asian countries, for example Cambodia where the bias to the young is even more overwhelming. As you can see, such countries miss out on most of the key factors now thought to be behind deaths in western countries.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-13/coronavirus-vietnam-no-deaths-success-in-south-east-asia/12237314
Australia also has a very low toll; 97 deaths in a population of 25 million. Very hard to make sense of it.
Toby has done it again. He links to the Daily Mail to prove children do not transmit the virus. He then uses this to say schools can open with no trouble. May be schools can open but it’s not because children don’t transmit. Take a look at Nature which sets out where we are – inconclusive. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01354-0 We are getting in to camps -Unions who stupidly say “It’s unsafe by definition” then the Toby’s who say children are inherently safe and Ferguson is a left-leaning moron. Neither are correct. The ins and outs of the virus itself are far more difficult and unknown. R? Who the hell knows what it means in reality? It’s just a term in a complex mathematical model. Anyone want to debate alpha for shares? R is a distraction here. Rubbishing the science of covid and the epidemiologists is of little use. The issue is defining the damage the lock down is doing. This can be evaluated in terms of losses of lives right now and in the future. Also, we have very little said about real risk levels for people which vary massively from the risk of infection to the risk once contracted. This is… Read more »
I am so happy that you object because the whole point is to maintain civilised discussion.
I think the point about children is that the lack of school is enormously detrimental, especially to those who are disadvantaged already. In order to inflict this damage we should have proof of efficacy and, despite people actually looking, there is no evidence that children transmit or suffer from the virus. The photo of the chalk circles points out the complete lack of basic humanity in a response that is supposedly all about humanity.
And even if they did, according to Sage’s own assessments, closing schools has no public health benefit, only cost, no impact on transmission and no impact on ultimate deaths. Whitty gave a lecture in 2018, How To Control a Pandemic, saying that, ditto airports, and events. The sage minutes leading up to lockdown also say that. It did have, however, 90% public approval.
Sooner or later those children must, we hope, decide on rebellion, they’ll decide that the panic caused to any zealot teachers when they should, shock! horror” hold hands!, will be very amusing for them. And they’ll all be doing it. If not maybe their parents can give them some encouragement.
But the experts in this case are just computer models. That’s why they shoved Ferguson out the way as he was destroying the credibility of the lockdown motivation. He was basically a meme. There are many actual experts vehemently opposed to this but they are removed from all mainstream outlets as it’s against Ofcom guidelines to contradict WHO.
But if I remember correctly, the WHO never said to lockdown. They did say to track and trace and that 1m was enough for social distancing. They also said masks are a waste of time for the general public.
All good points. I agree that the biggest issue is the damage caused by the lockdowns, and I don’t think they are the right strategy whatever the properties of this virus or epidemic are across a very wide range of plausible values.
The second biggest issue I believe is where we are in the course of the epidemic. If we’re near the end (as I strongly suspect but I may be wrong) then protracted periods of “new normals” and endless silly rules become doubly frustrating.
If we were (or are) at the beginning I would even cooperate with TTT provided that the app was properly engineered to get around privacy concerns.
I said in an earlier comment that TTT cannot work when the infection is already so widely spread. But this isn’t true. If you get the infections low enough you just start tracing anyone as soon as they show symptoms after that point. In theory it can work. But you have to know they are that low and also that the reason they are isn’t just that the epidemic is already over.
Hi guy153, can TTT still work when there are so many asymptomatic cases?
In theory yes, and also in practice, because it worked in Iceland and in some other places (Taiwan, for a bit in Singapore, probably others too). You don’t need to catch every infection– if you successfully find say half of the active infections you will reduce the transmission by enough to damp things right down (R < 1). I think they reckoned in Iceland they achieved about half. If you do TTT of course you don't need a lockdown.
But doesn’t it come back to the same issue? Is your health service over-whelmed? If not is there any benefit to prolonging the time period over which the outbreak lasts?
Genuinely curious!
Yes you’ve put your finger on the problem… it’s assumed you do TTT until you have a vaccine, which might be never.
TTT is much much less disruptive than a lockdown but can be a bit of a PITA. In South Korea they go around closing restaurants and things in affected areas and generally jumping on top of things.
The odd thing is when we look at the Spanish flu pandemic in USA we’re often shown how cities with lockdown fared better than cities that didn’t. But this was at a city level, not entire countries. How have we got to a point where closing down an entire country is seemingly the most intelligent way to deal with a virus?
You cannot stop a virus. We will need to live with it. The ones with good immune systems will be able to recover easily most of the time. I say most of the time because thousands of people of all ages die each year from influenza, with COVID the young do not die.
If we do not get children back to school and the economy going the deaths, misery, hunger and mental health will be massive.
You can stop a virus, if you contain it REALLY EARLY. The authoritaians of the Chinese Communist Party didn’t do this though, instead they arrested the doctors who reported on it on grounds that they didn’t want “rumours” spreading up the chain of command and making the local officials look bad. As things stand today however we cannot stop covid-19, because it has spread too far, it is endemic everywhere now, we need to get used to that and accept it as an extra risk to add to the pile of them that exist in normal lfie anyway. Our ancestors would be thrilled to have a world where the most worrying disease is something so mild as covid-19, they kept on living and working not only through epidemics of much worse diseases but in a world where truly nasty diseases were common at all times. The comparison proves what cowards we have become, great figures of history wold laugh at us, then wonder why they’d ever tried to make a better world.
‘ I was quite surprised to read that, given the recent slew of evidence that children don’t transmit the disease. But the real jaw-dropper is that Anneliese Dodds, the shadow chancellor, told the Times she would keep her six year-old son at home unless the Government provided evidence to show that going to school would not risk harming others. Does she not realise that children under 10 aren’t infectious? Across the entire world, there hasn’t been a single case – NOT A SINGLE CASE – of a child under 10 infecting someone else’. There is NO evidence that children do not infect others. I looked at the case review commented on by some Daily Mail journalist, which Toby appears to have swallowed uncritically. The studies do not address this question at all. They do record various observations about the mildness of symptoms in children, many asymptomatic, absence of fatalities, apparent presence of antibodies in babies delivered by C section to Covid mothers, etc. On the other hand, as any fule kno, children merrily pass around all infections to each other and their hapless parents. Otherwise how did us oldsters all get measles, mumps, whooping cough and chicken pox before we… Read more »
I too was horrified by Annelies Dodd’s attitude.
There is NO evidence that children do not transmit the virus in the case reviews put together by Alastair Munro’s bunch. It was not a question addressed in the case reports. Don’t know why Toby uncritically swallows some Daily Mail journalist’s comment to that effect, either.
On the other hand, as any fule kno, children merrily pass round every bug going between themselves and their hapless parents. And teachers. Otherwise, how did us oldsters all get measles, mumps , whooping cough and chicken pox before we were 11?
Children in school WILL transmit Corona virus indiscriminately – at very little detriment to themselves. Or their parents, probably, provided they’re fit and under 70. Ditto teachers.
So saddened to see the harvest of thumbs downs for Boneyknees entirely reasonable comment.
That’s not true actually, there is data and studies now that children do not transmit it, there is not one case worldwide where they were better at track and trace, where a child gave it to an adult.
The way I heard it is that there is a strong suggestion that children do not transmit, but that statistics show school closures (unlike total lockdowns) have nonetheless had some effect on slowing the spread, perhaps when open the spread happeend between parents at the gates or between teachers. The fact is that the virus is proving mild though, so we should consider the harms of closure, and the difficulties it poses for any workers who are parents, as severe enough to be worth reopening despite any spread this will cause.
Yes. A lot of votes down because I don’t express my concerns about the lockdown in the “right way”. I don’t rubbish Imperial College or imply that one man – Prof Ferguson – convinced most governments round the world to lock down based on no evidence whatsoever aided and abetted by lily livered politicians who were delighted to crash their economies. I object when Toby calls him Dr Strangelove. I am not even anti schools opening. I just object to Toby making definitive statements that are false to justify his position. You can hold many of Toby’s views without that tabloid crap that Toby spouts complete with tabloid cross-references.
I’m not at all sure we need to get primary school children to school now. I support it if it can be done with little added risk. There’s actually little school time left. Why aren’t the government talking about catching up? Teaching over the summer or even… Saturday school? They are 6. They are about to be off for 6 weeks or so. I just see the government blurting out dates with no real planning – it’s being done now but some basic facts are missing. There are other ways to solve this problem a little later when things might be clearer.
Around two months school time left.
Flippant, but I’m beyond caring:
Loses Ones Credibility & Kudos Deliberating On Wasteful Niceties.
So who thinks we would be in this mess if the Brexit Party had won the last election?
Alternatively, who will be voting for the Reform Party (or whatever they will call themselves) next time?
We need a Reform party – that is truly conservative too.
No, we need a reform party that is truly libertarian. Classic conservatism is too vulnerable to restricting freedom in cases where it thinks doing so would aid it in enforcing some idealised vision of the past.
First post so be gentle 😉 A couple of points from my own little (mostly unread) blog.. The first is why has so little attention been paid to the fact that the Government’s own advisory body ( The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens) downgraded the status of Covid 19 back on the 19th March? That was before the lockdown when they said: As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in the UK. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid#status-of-covid-19 I thought we were meant to be following the science? Secondly, all this hysteria and panic is made even more alarming by Joe Public’s inability to assess risk. Even if you accept that at the time of writing there have been around 33,000 deaths associated with Covid 19 (there have probably been less as anecdotal evidence is that Covid 19 is being put on death certificates without supporting evidence) this is not serious. At this stage the frightened rabbits will poke their heads out of their burrows and tell you how ‘every life is precious’. Well if it is so fecking precious love why the feck have you, prior to this, been driving your car everywhere… Read more »
I hear your pain and frustration.
The people who accuse others of being selfish and irresponsible for downplaying the seriousness of this virus make me cringe. I’ve seen some even try to claim that if you pass on the virus it’s tantamount to murder if they die.
Yet when I point out on the same basis that we’re all probably guilty of passing on the flu at some point in the past and ultimately somebody has died of it they have no reasonable response. This is not flu, it’s far more deadly. That may be so but passing on flu still kills people, so why should it be considered any different?
Except it’s not far more deadly tbh
It’s currently slightly worse than flu but that’s mainly because we’ve all been exposed to flu varients for years so there will likely be higher resistance to it. And there’s a vaccine for the more vulnerable so the death toll is reduced.
Given time I would think the deadliness of CV19 to be on a par with seasonal flu as people build up resistance and there may eventually be some sort of vaccine.
Drive to Waitrose in Hereford (or say that is what you’re doing if anyone asks) then stop off for a walk in the Herefordshire hills on the way back.
Don’t forget the coolbag.
I hear you. Obesity also kills around 30k people pee year in the UK, and yet many are horrified that the UK spends around £6bn trying to tackle it.
They say only 11% of people want lockdown relaxed but if the pubs opened tomorrow I guarantee more than 11% of the population would be in them. Of course most people don’t want lockdown to end they get to sit at home and still get paid. Take the money away and watch attitudes change.
Yep extending furlough til October was a DUMB MOVE
Seeing that made me worry slightly that we could potentially have some sort of lockdown until that time. I really hope it’s just can-kicking from Sunak, delaying potential (and by that point, likely inevitable) redundancies, rather than anticipating that the disease will be still raging by that time. Still, October is just the start of flu season…
If I was being positive, it might well be needed to tide over a few businesses that might be last to get going, such as holiday firms, some pubs, airlines, ferry companies and the like! Of course we shouldn’t be in this situation but there you go…
My husband believes that the extension is simply a way to ensure that by October a significant percentage is more or less back at work and to lessen the unemployment stats. At least Sunak admitted that the government won’t be able to save all jobs.
Agree totally. I think they realise they dropped and massive clanger here.
If they release everyone tomorrow and say “ah sorry looks like it’s not that serious”
Then most companies will lay off most the staff as there is no Market left. Everyone too frightened.
Hence yes us will take months to unwinds.
Biggest economic disaster ever
I’m afraid that there are many small businesses which won’t be able to get going again for some months, much as they would like to, as they won’t have customers (eg think of companies servicing major sporting, theatrical or exhibition events).
Without the furlough being extended, they may have no option but to shut up shop, (probably through CVA or administration to get the state to meet the redundancy cost), making all their staff redundant, with the hope of a buy-back of the rump of the business later in the year.
Sunak is clearly leaving it up to those employers who can re-open, to cajole their employees back to work. Unfortunately, through the social distancing rules, his colleagues have created the perfect scenario for a new “elf’n’safety” culture; this, combined with an extended furlough, make the ‘cajoling’ a hard task.
He’s clearly a smart guy, but he can’t win this one.