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Credit: Fiona Thomas

Today’s Telgraph says a majority of the Cabinet want Boris to accelerate the timetable for ending the lockdown.

Boris Johnson is under pressure to ease the lockdown restrictions causing “massive damage” to the economy, with the majority of the Cabinet understood to support a major “back to work” drive next month.

Rishi Sunak, the Chancellor, is among ministers who have expressed concerns about the long-term “scarring” to the economy being caused by the coronavirus pandemic.

Provided there is no unexpected increase in the rate of virus infections over the next 10 days, they want the Prime Minister to allow as many businesses as possible to reopen in order to get the country moving again.

According to Gordon Raynor, the Telegraph‘s political editor, the three most hawkish members of the Cabinet – remember, in the current vernacular hawkish means cautious, not bold – are Matt Hancock, Michael Gove and the Prime Minister. But the doves seem to be gaining ground. Conservative peers Baroness Noakes and Lord Dobbs have both chastised the Government for being over cautious, with Dobbs saying “lockdown means poverty”.

The former Tory work and pensions minister Baroness Buscombe urged the Government to be “proportionate” in a House of Lords debate yesterday and reduce the social distancing rule to one metre, calling for schools to reopen “to free up the workforce and to stem the tide of this, frankly, with respect, cultural and economic suicide”.

Meanwhile, the Times reports that the Treasury borrowed more last month than in the whole of last year (£62.1 billion). According to the Office for National Statistics, the Government hasn’t borrowed that much in a single month since records began.

Public Inquiry-Induced Paralysis

Cartoon by Bob in today’s Telegraph

According to Fraser Nelson’s column in today’s Telegraph, a new joke is going round Whitehall:

When an awkward question about Covid comes up, someone will say: “Well, tell that to the inquiry.”

But as Fraser points out, this isn’t funny. On the contrary, the paranoia gripping members of the Government and the Civil Service about how they’re likely to judged in the forthcoming inquiry is preventing them from taking decisive action in case it has adverse consequences and they end carrying the can. “I know one Cabinet member who is keeping meticulous, exculpatory notes of his actions with a dateline starting in January,” writes Fraser.

Normally, we’d expect the Prime Minister to be the one mobilising the English language to stirring national effect but instead he’s starting to look like the most cautious leader in Europe. Perhaps he is stung by the failure of the lockdown to limit deaths and thinks he cannot afford another political risk, especially if he plans a high-stakes Brexit gambit. Perhaps he worries an early move to reopen the economy would be too divisive – contravening his pledge to reconcile a country torn by the referendum.

The Prime Minister tells colleagues that they’ll be forgiven for mistakes going into this crisis, but not for mistakes coming out. He’s right. But if he’s late out of lockdown, he will be walking straight into that second mistake.

YouTube’s Red Pen

Yesterday, when linking to Freddie Sayers’s interview with Sunetra Gupta on UnHerd, I said, “Watch it before YouTube takes it down.” That was intended as a joke – surely, YouTube wouldn’t take down an interview with the Professor of Theoretical Epidemiology at Oxford, however much she dissented from Covid orthodoxy?

But then I discovered that YouTube had removed Freddie’s interview with Professor Karol Sikora, Dean of Buckingham University Medical School. According to Freddie, the video “violated” YouTube’s “guidelines” and his appeal for it to be reinstated was rejected. Freddie tweeted about this last night, several people weighed in to criticise YouTube’s decision (including me), and the video has now been reinstated.

Will the interview with Professor Gupta be removed? You’ll recall that she made news back in March when her team at Oxford – long-standing rivals to Neil Ferguson’s team at Imperial College – published a preprint arguing that many more people could have been infected than we previously thought and herd immunity might be achievable without paying the price that Ferguson’s team claimed, i.e. 250,000+ Covid fatalities. At the time, this was summarised as “coronavirus may have infected half of UK population” – and widely scoffed at – but that isn’t what the paper said. Rather, it hypothesised a range of estimates, of which that was one.

In the interview, Gupta doesn’t defend the 50% figure, but stands by the idea that herd immunity can be achieved without hundreds of thousands of deaths:

In almost every context we’ve seen the epidemic grow, turn around and die away — almost like clockwork. Different countries have had different lockdown policies, and yet what we’ve observed is almost a uniform pattern of behaviour which is highly consistent with [our] model. To me that suggests that much of the driving force here was due to the build-up of immunity. I think that’s a more parsimonious explanation than one which requires in every country for lockdown (or various degrees of lockdown, including no lockdown) to have had the same effect.

She is careful not to directly criticise Ferguson and his team. Rather, the Government was at fault for acting as it did based on the team’s prediction:

The Government’s defence is that this [the Imperial College model] was a plausible worst case scenario. I agree it was a plausible — or at least a possible — worst case scenario. The question is, should we act on a possible worst case scenario, given the costs of lockdown? It seems to me that given that the costs of lockdown are mounting, that case is becoming more and more fragile.

In the most controversial section of the interview, Professor Gupta says she thinks the long-term harm caused by social distancing will outweigh the benefits. Why? Because protecting ourselves from exposure to pathogens in our day-to-day life makes us more vulnerable to killer viruses, not less.

Remaining in a state of lockdown is extremely dangerous from the point of view of the vulnerability of the entire population to new pathogens. Effectively we used to live in a state approximating lockdown 100 years ago, and that was what created the conditions for the Spanish Flu to come in and kill 50 million people.

Does that mean she’s in favour of dispensing with social distancing altogether and just returning to normal? She doesn’t quite say so, but that appears to be what she thinks.

I think it is very dangerous to talk about lockdown without recognising the enormous costs that it has on other vulnerable sectors in the population.

Great stuff, obviously, and history will almost certainly look more kindly on Professor Gupta than Professor Ferguson. But I’m not going to make her ‘Sceptic of the Week’ because, it turns out, she’s wary of being lumped in with libertarian types like me.

So I know there is a sort of libertarian argument for the release of lockdown, and I think it is unfortunate that those of us who feel we should think differently about lockdown have had our voices added to that libertarian harangue. But the truth is that lockdown is a luxury, and it’s a luxury that the middle classes are enjoying and higher income countries are enjoying at the expense of the poor, the vulnerable and less developed countries. It’s a very serious crisis.

Infection Fatality Rate is 0.26% – CDC

Regular readers will know that I’ve been tracking the infection fatality rate (IFR) throughout the crisis, convinced that it’s far lower than the 0.9% estimated by Neil Ferguson and way, way lower than the 3.4% estimated by the WHO. My prediction has long been that it will turn out to be slightly higher than the IFR of seasonal flu, which is 0.1% in an average year and 0.2% in a bad year. Although I’ve never been quite as bullish as Sunetra Gupta, who told Freddie she thinks it is somewhere between 0.1% and 0.01%.

On May 15th, the Center for Disease Control (CDC) in the US published its official estimate – 0.26%, although it doesn’t come right out and say it. Rather, it estimates the case fatality rate (CFR) for different age groups:

  • 0-49 year-olds: 0.05%
  • 50-64 year-olds: 0.2%
  • 65+ years-old: 1.3%
  • Mean CFR: 0.4%

The CDC estimates that 35% of people who’ve been infected are asymptomatic, so to get the IFR from the CFR you have to multiply it by 0.65 – 0.4 x 0.65 = 0.26%.

Hats off to the Ethical Skeptic, the anonymous Twitter account which estimated the IFR at 0.26% more than two weeks ago. Using data from seroprevalence studies, he calculated that 32,768,000 Americans had been infected up to May 8th and divided that by the number of US fatalities, which was 86,469 at that point. That gave an IFR of 0.26%.

On May 15th, I discussed a New York Times article that criticised lockdown sceptics for circulating the Santa Clara serological study and highlighting its IFR estimate of 0.17%. According to the Times, the signal boost the study received from anti-lockdown wing-nuts on Twitter led to “a surge of misinformation”. Trouble is, that “misinformation” has turned out to be more accurate than the IFR estimates of the WHO and Professor Ferguson.

Incidentally, John Ioannidis, Professor of Medicine at Harvard and the lead author of the Santa Clara study, has a new preprint out in which he estimates the IFR by looking at 12 seroprevalence studies in which the population sample size >500. His conclusion is that it’s “in the same ballpark as seasonal flu”, i.e. between 0.1% and 0.2%. Daniel Horowitz, a senior editor at the Conservative Review, says the mean IFR estimate based on these seroprevalence studies is 0.2%. “That is 17 times less deadly than what the WHO originally predicted and 4.5 times less deadly than the Imperial College study,” he writes.

So it’s official, folks: We’ve imprisoned over a billion people in their homes, laying waste to the global economy and causing untold misery and death in the process, to mitigate the impact of a virus that’s no deadlier than a bad bout of seasonal flu.

Did the New York Times Smear the German Anti-Lockdown Movement?

While we’re on the subject of “misinformation” pumped out by the New York Times, I asked my German-speaking correspondent to look into the Times‘s front-page story claiming the anti-lockdown movement in Germany is being manipulated by the AfD. This was his verdict:

The German media also treats the protest movement against lockdown restrictions in Germany as being driven by various fringe groups that are increasingly influenced by “the right” and AfD usually gets a mention. In a commentary on May 19th, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung describes the protests against lockdown restrictions literally as a “festival of delusional slogans”. The demos are described as colourful gatherings that attract all sorts of esoteric types, anti-vaxxers, left-wing extremists and anti-capitalists – and “increasing numbers of right-wingers”. The reporter Thomas Holl is bemused by the seeming contradictions at play – while international virologists and epidemiologists praise Merkel’s successful handling of the crisis and Germany’s relatively low death toll, there seems to be a stronger anti-lockdown protest movement in the country than elsewhere. Like the New York Times, Holl points the finger at AfD – the right-wing party’s showing in the polls dipped in April and the assertion is that they are looking to exploit the protests to recover lost ground.

I couldn’t see anything about AfD’s influence in Bild, but it carries an emotional story together with a video from the German network TV station ARD that pits a younger protestor against an older gentleman, Alfons Blum, who attended a protest in Gera. The pensioner is there because of how he has been personally affected – he has been unable to visit his wife who lives in a home for the past eight weeks and he breaks down in tears in the interview. A younger participant gets mixed up in how his emotional story is being exploited to distract from the bigger picture and starts shouting at Blum, citing earlier flu epidemics that claimed far more lives and that he should not allow the mainstream media to “make fun” of him on television. “If you listen to the network channels you will have practically lost control over your life!” he tells Blum. The commentary concludes by contrasting the two: “[C]itizens like pensioner Alfons Blum are suffering because of the measures – others believe that the media and the Government are being oppressive.”

Incidentally, there’s now a 7,000-word English summary of the leaked document written by the senior civil servant in the Ministry of the Interior. The translation is by Paul Gregory, a German-to-English translator.

More Praise for Governor DeSantis

USA Today ran a piece yesterday by opinion columnist Glenn Harlan Reynolds criticising New York Governor Andrew Cuomo and praising Florida Governor Ron DeSantis:

It’s interesting to compare Cuomo’s approach, in which infected (and infectious) patients were deliberately sent to nursing homes, with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s policy of protecting nursing homes first.

As the Palm Beach Post notes, DeSantis forbade the discharge of infected patients to nursing homes and long-term care facilities. As a result, only 3.5 per 100,000 nursing home residents in Florida contracted the disease, compared to 27 out of 100,000 in New York.

Thanks to Cuomo’s mishandling of the crisis “more than 5,300 nursing home patients in New York have died from COVID-19, and as an Albany Times Union account notes, critics blame this policy,” says Reynolds.

These mistakes led to a giant “Cuomo Killed My Mom” sign being erected off an overpass in upstate New York. Possibly unfair but certainly indicative of how some New Yorkers feel.

Round-Up

And on to the round-up of all the stories I’ve noticed, or which have been been brought to my attention, in the last 24 hours:

Theme Tune Suggestions

Some more suggestions for theme songs from readers: “Trying to Survive” by Harvey Scales and the Seven Sounds, “The Whole Damn World is Going Crazy” by John Gary Williams and “Madness They Call It Madness” by Madness.

Small Businesses That Have Reopened

Last week, Lockdown Sceptics launched a searchable directory of open businesses across the UK. The idea is to celebrate those retail and hospitality businesses that have reopened, as well as help people find out what has opened in their area. But we need your help to build it, so we’ve created a form you can fill out to tell us about those businesses that have reopened near you. Please visit the page and let us know about those brave folk who are doing their bit to get our country back on its feet.

The list of shops and services that can reopen may be longer than people imagine. On May 13th, the Government issued revised guidance and it’s now permissible for the following retail businesses to reopen (this is in addition to those we already know about, such as garden centres and rubbish dumps):

  • Dental services, opticians, audiology services, chiropody, chiropractors, osteopaths and other medical or health services (including physiotherapy and podiatry services), and services relating to mental health
  • Bicycle shops
  • Homeware, building supplies and hardware stores
  • Veterinary surgeries and pet shops
  • Agricultural supplies shops
  • Off-licences and licensed shops selling alcohol, including those within breweries. Come on, Majestic. What are you waiting for?
  • Laundrettes and dry cleaners
  • Car repair and MOT services

Shameless Begging Bit

Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the last 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. If you feel like donating please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in tomorrow’s update, email me here. The site’s total page views have now passed one million and it’s averaging 54,000 visitors a day. We’re making an impact!

And Finally…

Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus. Credit: Getty Images

It’s another shameless plug I’m afraid, this time for my latest column in Spectator USA. In this one, I blame China for unleashing this pandemic/panic on the world, although WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus is a close second. My argument is that if the Chinese Communist authorities hadn’t silenced the Wuhan doctors who raised the alarm at the end of December, the virus might never have made it out of Wuhan:

Would the emergence of a novel coronavirus in Wuhan at the end of December have led to a global pandemic if the Chinese authorities had acted more quickly? Almost certainly not. A group of researchers at the University of Southampton looked at what difference it would have made if the travel ban and other non-pharmaceutical interventions had been put in place three weeks earlier, as soon as the doctors raised the alarm. They concluded that cases would have been reduced by 95 percent. In all likelihood, the virus would never have made it out of Hubei.

No doubt China will be judged to have mismanaged this crisis in a number of ways when the official inquiries get under way. There are already a flurry of lawsuits seeking compensation from the Chinese government, including one launched by Missouri Attorney General Eric Schmitt, who claims the state has suffered tens of billions of dollars in economic losses as a result of China’s negligence.

But perhaps China’s biggest sin was to stop those Wuhan doctors exercising their right to free speech. Had they been allowed to raise their concerns in the public arena, instead of being silenced and publicly shamed, it’s likely that hundreds of thousands of people across the world would now still be alive. At the time of writing, there have been 4.1 million confirmed cases of COVID-19 and 283,000 deaths from the disease.

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AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago

Boris, Hancock and Gove need to swing for this.

Invunche
Invunche
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

Boris is now pretty much certain to take Eden’s title as worst ever UK Prime Minster isn’t he?

That will be his legacy.

Lms2
Lms2
10 days ago
Reply to  Invunche

And I’d have to add Sunak as the worst chancellor. He’s been even more profligate than Brown, and that’s saying something.

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

It’s true isn’t it… in one fell swoop he’s dwarfed Brown’s entire 13 years of grotesque largesse.

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

Sunak is another Goldman place man. He will break ranks more obviously soon – Lloyd Blankfein broke ranks in calling for an ending of lockdown in US a month ago. Just waiting for the ‘signal’ from Jim O’Neill at this end!

A13
A13
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

I can’t believe some of the LinkedIn posts I’m seeing on my feed. Sunak is getting so much praise there. People say shit like “Amazing job Rishi Sunak, the future prime minister”

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago
Reply to  A13

The bookies have him as next PM, by a huge margin.

Edgar Friendly
Edgar Friendly
10 days ago
Reply to  A13

Sunak PM? Hope not. I’d rather die of C19.

Bella Donna
Bella Donna
9 days ago
Reply to  A13

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is an army of internet government trolls who spend all day praising the actions of government.

Farinances
Farinances
9 days ago
Reply to  Bella Donna

Apparently they are military and they call them 77th brigade. Have no idea how true this is – isn’t that what MI5/6 are supposed to be for? (or are the spies all on furlough 😂)

Hopeful
Hopeful
9 days ago
Reply to  Farinances

Take a look at ukcolumn news for information on 77brigade, their place within the Cabinet Office, and the names of those involved in possibly really being the ones running this country.

Hopeful
Hopeful
9 days ago
Reply to  Bella Donna

Yes there is such an army. It is called 77 brigade. It’s leaders pride themselves on tackling disinformation and misinformation particularly about covid19. They are actively spying on the domestic population. Allegedly some within it find this ‘fun’.

james007
james007
10 days ago
Reply to  Invunche

God, I even miss Theresa May.

AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
10 days ago
Reply to  james007

Yep, even that crossed my mind also!

james007
james007
10 days ago

Imagine if Johnson had just beefed up “flatten the curve”. Free hand sanitizer, new cleaning and hygiene rules etc..
He could have done a great “Fight them on the beaches speech” about how we are British and nothing will take away our freedom…

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
10 days ago
Reply to  james007

Sadly he did not go that route and we are going to pay the price for his actions. My wife signed on the dole today, she lost her job a month ago and has been searching every day for that last month. She is 55 and whilst she has had periods between jobs, we knew we get through a period with her out of work. This time it looks very different.

BecJT
BecJT
10 days ago
Reply to  DoubtingDave

Sorry about your wife, that’s tough.

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
10 days ago
Reply to  BecJT

Thanks BecJT, we are lucky, I am still working, and our outgoing are fairly low. We are just annoyed that we find The UK in this mess.

RDawg
RDawg
9 days ago
Reply to  DoubtingDave

Sorry to hear that. I wish you/her every success in finding new employment. This really isn’t fair.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
9 days ago
Reply to  DoubtingDave

Very sorry to hear about your wife. Hope that things will improve.

ianp
ianp
10 days ago
Reply to  james007

There’s just a wider agenda at play here. Keep on saying it, keep your eye on what’s happening in other countries. It’s like a worldwide chess game. I know some folk in the phillipines, and there’s was a serious military lockdown with no dissent tolerated… And a laughably small number of deaths. Things are apparently reaching biking point though

South Coast Worker
South Coast Worker
10 days ago

She’s got a massive hard on for total surveillance state monitoring. God knows what she would have pushed through.

Poppy
Poppy
10 days ago
Reply to  james007

I read somewhere that Johnson would have been good at sorting the Brexit deal and May would have been good at dealing with the coronavirus crisis and in a cruel twist of fate, their missions were swapped and both went tits up.

A13
A13
10 days ago
Reply to  Poppy

I just can’t imagine her doing daily briefing…You might be right though, it’s hard to do a worse job than Bojo

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago
Reply to  Poppy

Nah, I’m not having that… Everything Theresa May ever touched turned to shit.

A13
A13
10 days ago
Reply to  james007

You gotta be kidding me. Not her.

ianp
ianp
10 days ago
Reply to  james007

One of the early politicians to come out to criticise the lockdown have to say. But again, don’t trust her, she had her time in power and is on the way down, so what did she have to lose? They’re all ambitious scrotes, after all

Stefan
Stefan
10 days ago
Reply to  james007

Sorry can’t agree to that. That woman makes me shudder

Bella Donna
Bella Donna
9 days ago
Reply to  Stefan

Boris and May are not that dissimilar both excruciatingly useless at the job, both make the wrong decisions both are embarrassing and both hide away whenever possible. Only their genders differ.

Adele Bull
Adele Bull
10 days ago
Reply to  Invunche

I bloody voted for this man! (I had hoped he would “get Brexit done”) But where is he in our hour if need? Where’s the leadership? I could do a better job than him!

Bella Donna
Bella Donna
9 days ago
Reply to  Adele Bull

We all could do better!

crimsonpirate
crimsonpirate
10 days ago
Reply to  Invunche

Oh I don’t know. I chuckled when I heard Boris leadership bid HQ was located in Lord North Street. Of Lord North someone once said “his indolence was a barrier to efficient crisis management”. How true,once again

Jaguarpig
Jaguarpig
10 days ago
Reply to  Invunche

May will still take some beating

Biker
Biker
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

Fat chance the councils have closed all the play parks

Saved To Death
Saved To Death
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

A thorough investigation would surely add many names to this list.

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago
Reply to  Saved To Death

Oh they’d love that… dilute the blame, muddy the water… fire a few civil servants (while promising them seats in the Lords so they’ll go quietly)… saunter away from the whole mess, whistling nonchalently.

I can see it happening just like that.

Saved To Death
Saved To Death
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

I am not suggesting it should dilute the blame but I think there are many many people that need to be held to account, their motivations forensically analysed, their conflicts of interest followed. Normally I am against capital punishment but I think the crime here is of such a size that it should temporarily be reintroduced for the purpose of prosecuting the crimes that are currently being perpetrated against the British people.

The actions of our government and its advisers have destroyed so many lives, led to so many deaths and with so many to come that they must all be held to account. If you are giving advice to the government which is leading to death and you have a serious conflict of interest while doing so how can we overlook this.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
10 days ago
Reply to  Saved To Death

I think Chris Whitty has subtly made it clear that he’s sick of trotting out the party line because he disagrees with it but Vallance seems more snakelike every time we see him.

Saved To Death
Saved To Death
10 days ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Some of the people involved maybe acting under duress and maybe even genuinely in fear for their lives. This should be uncovered given a sufficiently thorough investigation. I think their trials should certainly be held to a much higher standard then our collective trial has been.

A HUG IS HEALTH
A HUG IS HEALTH
9 days ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

I am tweeting Chris Whitty every day. I know he knows this is all rubbish but he has a duty to stand up and say so just like the rest of them.
Boris has to come out and own this bastard baby of his.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
10 days ago
Reply to  Saved To Death

Death is too good for the likes of Ferguson, et al.

What I would propose is in lieu of capital punishment, those found guilty should be made to reenact Sisyphus for the rest of their lives with us the public allowed to pelt them with stones, rubbish, rotten food and milkshakes.

ianp
ianp
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

Ok, devils advocate here, am a regular poster so you know how much I hate this whole situation.

Alright, I have been saying Boris has been on our side but I am seriously wavering now.

My thinking was always about looking at what the rest of the world was doing, you got to do that to be fair. When has this ever just been UK only decision?. How much pressure there was from Msm to lockdown when the rest of EU had done so?. Why are we absolving the disgusting MSM support of fear fear fear just because a few of them are coming out of their shells with a few critical articles now, the snakes. They knew lockdown was bollocks all along and said nothing.

And… The fact that there is NO compulsory mask wearing and the weirdest loosest lockdown imaginable compared to rest of Europe isn’t it? Nobody had to produce ‘papers’ to be out did they? Ok you have Sweden of course, those cool calm swedes – but note the masks there – my ultimate hatred symbol.

Finally, the easing of lockdown a couple of weeks ago, basically meant 90% of it was unenforceable right? Which other country has done that – for the most part we the people, can choose.

Something is definitely afoot worldwide, one big political game being played now for the technological future. Am sure of that.

And ask yourself if we had corbyn or starmer in charge… Note the more left you go (Jimmy krankie up there is Scotland) the greater the lockdownista. Just look at those trade unions at the moment… Signing their own death warrant with blocking schools reopening.

It’s an absolute mess to be sure, and the government are now in a political maze, but it could have been worse, hard as that is to imagine.

Enough defending them (I still can’t stand that Hancock twat) … I feel dirty for doing so, but had to put it out there

Saved To Death
Saved To Death
10 days ago
Reply to  ianp

If my child hurt another and told me the reason he did it was because he saw others doing the same thing I would explain to him that this is not acceptable and only he is responsible for his actions. Just because other people are doing something it does not make it OK.

The fact that other countries were taking extreme measures does not absolve our government and its advisers of responsibility for its actions in any way. When we went into lockdown the credible science being published was already telling us that this virus was about as dangerous as the flu. There was no evidence to support this action at all. Prof Furgesons models were not credible science. Hysterics in the MSN is not credible science.

ianp
ianp
10 days ago
Reply to  Saved To Death

Sure, I know that. But something like this on a worldwide scale smells like an agenda here. 2/3 possible paths. Everyone has signed up to something.

It was all inevitable.

And be very aware of being manipulated by MSM into focusing only on UK events, they were the ones pushing the fear for months on end yes?. Be very suspicious of motives now.

Yes, because it hurts us a lot more as it’s personal, we live here but the way this goes will be influenced as much by the rest of the world as anything undertaken here.

Keep eyes open on worldwide, from there we’ll find the endgame that all the power brokers have in store.

Saved To Death
Saved To Death
10 days ago
Reply to  ianp

I understand what you are saying but what really can we do about that. We as UK citizens must hold our government to account that is our duty we can only hope the citizens of other countries will do the same.

Perhaps if we did that successfully and other countries did not the power brokers would arrange for the formal invasion or even nuclear attack of our country – its a possibility but what else do we do, not hold our government to account for its crimes? Wait to be liberated?

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
10 days ago
Reply to  ianp

Got an email from my union today, here is a quote from it:

“Today top scientists from the respected Independent SAGE group have released a report saying it is not safe for schools to open more widely on June 1.

The report concludes that delaying by two weeks – to June 15 – would halve the risks to children, while waiting until September would be even less risky. The scientists are clear that June 1 is not safe.

Can you share our messages to make sure everyone knows?”

Wait until schools are told the DfE is pulling funding as they don’t need as many staff to provide education going forward. I can see staff reductions in school from September, budgets have been tight in recent times, what better way of saving money, cut the staffing costs.

Dene Bebbington
Dene Bebbington
9 days ago
Reply to  DoubtingDave

Does SAGE not point out that if schools are ever reopen there’s a risk from flu each year, and that can be more lethal to children than Covid-19?

Steve
Steve
9 days ago
Reply to  DoubtingDave

Independent Sage group is hardly independent

Among its membership are actual communists, Labour Party donors, activists, Corbynistas, “anti-Zionists”, Brexit conspiracy theorists and even a former Greek MP. Guido brings you an extraordinary rundown of eight members of the twelve strong committee here…

https://order-order.com/2020/05/04/not-independent-activist-stuffed-shadow-sage/

Annabel Andrew
Annabel Andrew
9 days ago
Reply to  ianp

I agree with you. I keep hoping that there is a plan- maybe it’s to create such hatred of the Unions who are scuppering everything that we’ll all cheer when Boris does a Maggie? Or am being too hopeful? Was also thinking that Cummings trip was a signal- was it a cowardly way of getting people to say” right, sod it! If he’s going out, I’m going out” and so avoid having to officially end the lockdown and let it happen naturally – as I think it probably is.

Masks also my pet hate- it makes me feel physically sick to think that we may be required to wear one or that someone would chose to wear one. And please can we just be done with bloody social distancing!

I wish I had used a ‘sue denim’ as I could post all the things I have done in lockdown that I ‘shouldn’t’ have.

Disagree with posters above on Rishi- I actually think he was against this from the start and would make an excellent PM.

As for quarantining on return from abroad- what pillock thought that was even do-able? All that will happen is that private sector will ignore it and the public sector will take even more time off on full pay!

chris c
chris c
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

Red hot poker

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago
Reply to  chris c

I’d watch that on Pay-per-view

d barton
d barton
9 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

The court case next week could be a get out of jail free card for Boris
If I was a betting man I’d put money on them taking a dive in the first
It’s open to them to make a half hearted defence of the science and lose the case. This could be a win/win. The ‘scientists’ will not be there to defend themselves. The blame will be heaped on the ‘scientists’
Boris will have had the decision made for him and be immune (sorry) from any post lockdown blame game
Then we will have a year of we can’t have a public enquiry until the crises is over. This will followed by five years of ‘ I can’t answer that it’s a matter for the public enquiry’.
That should see him through to after the next general election

Chris John
Chris John
9 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

650 MPs need to hang

Basileus
Basileus
10 days ago

You were discussing a few days ago whether it might be a good idea to set up a sceptic alternative to the government daily briefing. I wonder whether you might have considered teaming up with UKColumn? They have the facilities to do all the required technology and are producing three programmes a week already. It would not be much work for them as you would be providing most of the content. Any thoughts?

A13
A13
10 days ago
Reply to  Basileus

In my opinion, UK column is a step too far into conspiracy theory land. I might be wrong, but that’s the vibe they give.

South Coast Worker
South Coast Worker
10 days ago
Reply to  A13

Haven’t you noticed? We’re living through a giant conspiracy theory right now.

Lms2
Lms2
10 days ago
Reply to  A13

But are they wrong?
So far, the “conspiracy theorists” and those peddling “misinformation” seem to be more accurate in their predictions and information than the official sources.

South Coast Worker
South Coast Worker
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

To me the people supporting this lockdown are the conspiracy theorists, such are the giant leaps in faith and logic you have to make to justify it any way at all.

A13
A13
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

It’s not the case of if they are right or wrong.
It’s a polarizing topic and if you want to reach a broader audience you need to try to deliver it through a more balanced platform.
Otherwise, we’re just amplifying the noise in our echo chamber.

South Coast Worker
South Coast Worker
10 days ago
Reply to  A13

All that needs to be done is to present the numbers in context and in proportion. Don’t add any editorial and let people evaluate the risk for themselves. It would require the public to engage their analytical brain of which the MSM has robbed them over the last two decades; it probably wouldn’t work.

A13
A13
10 days ago

I don’t think it’s as easy as presenting the numbers in context and proportion. If that was the case, you would have more lockdown sceptics.
All I’m saying is that it’s better to be not associated with conspiracy theorists if you want to reach a broader audience.

JohnB
JohnB
10 days ago
Reply to  A13

I appreciate your point of view, A13.

However the numbers, in context and proportion, have never been presented to the vast majority of the population.

The decision is between associating with the tinfoils (I’m a longtime member) or not getting the facts out to people.

Dene Bebbington
Dene Bebbington
9 days ago

The media haven’t robbed people’s ability to think analytically. Most people aren’t good at it, and we get the type of media people prefer to consume.

Farinances
Farinances
9 days ago

Most people are actually very good at COMMON SENSE (you don’t have be analytically minded to have this). Trouble is they haven’t been given all the facts with which to exercise some. They’ve been treated like fools and children- lo and behold, they’ve turned into them. If you start from the point of “people are thick, the media are only responding to how thick they are”, thickness is inevitable. People will get MORE thick. If you start from the point that everyone has basic common sense, and treat people accordingly, their analytical capabilites will only improve over time.

Actually you can apply this to everything. We are now teaching our kids to the lowest common denominator (I personally think phonics and all this performative ‘learn through play’ crap is *complete* bollocks)- and look what happened. Nobody can read any more.

A13
A13
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

I don’t disagree with you, but the message could be more effective if it comes from a source that is not associated with conspiracy theories.

crimsonpirate
crimsonpirate
10 days ago
Reply to  A13

as someone mentioned elsewhere we appear to have moved from conspiracy theory to conspiracy practice

chris c
chris c
10 days ago
Reply to  crimsonpirate

YES!

Angela
Angela
10 days ago
Reply to  Basileus

I think Unherd and Delingpole would be better options

JohnB
JohnB
10 days ago
Reply to  Angela

londonreal.tv ?

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
10 days ago
Reply to  JohnB

I think LondonReal.TV have got their own issues, the digital freedom platform has raised a few questions about where the money donated to get this going actually is being spent.

LuluJo
LuluJo
10 days ago

I’d like to point at that whilst the services you mention can technically re-open, in practice this is proving extremely difficult because of the ludicrous social distancing guidelines. As an example, I’m a therapist. Both of my professional bodies, as well as my insurance company have categorically stated that I cannot resume face to face work because of social distancing, as well as the guideline that face to face interaction can be for no more than 15 minutes. At a time when my human connection, mental health therapy could be really helping people, I’m stuck with Zoom or Skype as my only options – poor substitutes in my opinion. Try talking someone down from a panic attack with a flaky Skype connection, it’s crap to be honest. I’ve spoken with other ‘hands on’ ‘face to face’ therapists – osteopaths, chiropracters etc and we are all stuck with the same ludicrous ‘go to work, don’t go to work’ scenario. It’s crippling what we do, and inevitably will have long term consequences for our clients/patients. I’m so frustrated, I could scream.

Max
Max
10 days ago
Reply to  LuluJo

It’s nice to see the guidance has been updated but it has been perfectly legal for virtually all the businesses on the list to open (in England) since the beginning of lockdown – they were in the list of permitted retail enterprises in the original Coronavirus regulations. Those that have closed has presumably not been because they have been banned, but because they have had difficulty with engineering social distancing and/or have decided it has not been economic to open due to lack of supplies and/or customers. These latter problems will not have gone away so unfortunately I wouldn’t expect a huge rush to reopen.

Nigel Baldwin
Nigel Baldwin
10 days ago
Reply to  Max

Are you sure about that? All the therapists I know, which includes osteopaths. physios, chiropodists and dentists, stated they were forced to close. And even this most stupid of governments must know that you can’t perform those therapies observing unsocial distancing.

Max
Max
10 days ago
Reply to  Nigel Baldwin

Yes, absolutely sure. Check The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020. On the list of businesses exempt from lockdown:
37. Dental services, opticians, audiology services, chiropody, chiropractors, osteopaths and other medical or health services, including services relating to mental health.
38. Veterinary surgeons and pet shops.

LuluJo
LuluJo
9 days ago
Reply to  Max

And yes, technically they have been able to be open all along, as have I. However, many of us therapists, osteos, physios etc work from home, running micro businesses. My physio for example, runs her business from her house. In order to reopen she has to comply with the following – wipe clean floors, wash hand basin in the room, separate entrance for clients to arrive, with a reception area with social distancing measures in place, separate toilet facilities for clients, PPE, on and on. Now she’s a one woman band, working from her home. None of these things are possible for her, except maybe PPE. We will almost certainly lose her skills and her business will close because of this as she cannot possibly afford to comply, or make such alterations to her rental property!

I could maintain the 2 metre distancing from my face to face clients, but guidelines state I can only see them for 15 minutes and as it could be classed as a clinic, I would have to wear a mask (not happening!) My therapy sessions are 90 minutes at least, so my only option is to work online. I’m in a better position than my physio as I can work, but she can’t. I’m happy to take the risk to see clients, but my professional body categorically states “face-to-face consultations and ‘hands-on’ therapies for the disciplines we register cannot take place until further notice.”

Max
Max
9 days ago
Reply to  LuluJo

Actually, that’s sort of the point I was making. The government can manipulate the headlines by saying “look, x is now allowed” but if x is still subject to “social distancing guidelines” then it may be practically impossible. The problem is, it is difficult to plot an easy route back to normality from where we have got to now (because even if you lifted all guidance and told people it was safe, a large number wouldn’t believe you).

LuluJo
LuluJo
9 days ago
Reply to  Max

Absolutely. It’s a way of ducking responsibility and the more cynical amongst us might infer that it’s backside covering for the future – ‘well we said you could open, not our fault if you can’t comply with the guidelines.’ Shifting this cult like response and getting people back to anything resembling normal is going to be one heck of a job. Project ‘Terrify the Public’ has worked too well.

Farinances
Farinances
9 days ago
Reply to  LuluJo

Yes they want the best of both worlds.

Open up the economy with stupid rules – if things ‘go wrong’ and the mythical R number goes up, they can blame the public for not following said rules well enough and lock down again!

Altho tbh, I think they know it’s not gonna ‘go wrong’ already. Because it’s not going wrong anywhere else.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
9 days ago
Reply to  Max

But that would then be the scaredy-cats’ choice and the rest of us could get on with life.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
9 days ago
Reply to  Max

Dentists aren’t allowed to do anything that generates an aerosol – ie most dental procedures.

South Coast Worker
South Coast Worker
10 days ago
Reply to  LuluJo

Your services are needed more than ever, and your patients are part of the huge number of forgotten casualties. A podcast today mentioned all the AA meetings that haven’t happened for months. Things like that hadn’t occurred to me and must have dire consequences.

Automobile Association
Automobile Association
10 days ago

There are online zoom meetings that are pretty widely available. It’s not the same and it being the internet idiots decide to crash the rooms every so often. The problem is probably also escalating and making it harder for people to get help, though. Really not ideal.

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
10 days ago

Whilst AA meetings may not be happening, I notice that takeaway alcohol sales are still taking place. We are really trying to mess up society.

sunchap
sunchap
9 days ago
Reply to  LuluJo

Yes good point. I heard that in California suicide attempts have risen by a factor of 12.

Awkward Git
Awkward Git
9 days ago
Reply to  LuluJo

You do not have to blindly follow any guidelines from Government or trade bodies. You are responsible for these are policies and procedures of your company/operations not them. You should as an arse covering exercise perform your own risk assessment and use the findings from that as a basis for safe operating policies and procedures as long as it is all documented and the reasoning. It could be based on the guidelines, it could ignore them, who knows until you have your risk assessment done and finalised.
Remember the phrase – As Low As Reasonably Practicable – ALARP. This does not mean totally cripple and bankrupt your company trying to comply 100%, it means exactly what it says – get the risks to a level where they are as low as is reasonable.
Guidelines are not law nor enforceable, they are just a matter of opinion until a judge rules on them in court and makes his judgement on whether your risk assessment was sufficient and based on sound facts and science.
“I was just following guidelines” when in court for whatever reason is not an acceptable defence as you are responsible for safe operations and should have seen that the guidelines were wrong and not relevant or could lead to an unsafe condition or act.

How do I know? Dealing with HSE over the years.

LuluJo
LuluJo
9 days ago
Reply to  Awkward Git

Thank you, great advice.

Stefan
Stefan
9 days ago
Reply to  Awkward Git

The business insurance company would probably then state they are not following guideline and hence the business Liability insurance is not valid. Essentially putting them out of business.
Common sense plays no part in this insanity.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
9 days ago
Reply to  LuluJo

I’m sure lots of people would be happy to come and scream with you – without social distancing of course. Maybe we should all start screaming on Thursdays at 8pm? Children love screaming. There’s not been much happy screaming round here recently. They’d be very enthusiastic participants.

LuluJo
LuluJo
9 days ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

I’d love that – a good screaming session. Never clapped, never will but a good scream would do us all the world of good I reckon.

Mark Hunter
Mark Hunter
10 days ago

Sturgeon and Swinney seem determined to ensure Boris is beaten in the race to win the “country with the longest, most harmful lockdown” medal.

IanE
IanE
10 days ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

They seem to be blithely unaware of the backlash that is going to come down the tracks as the consequences of what they have done become apparent. Amazing idiocy.

Lms2
Lms2
10 days ago
Reply to  IanE

In the U.S., one theory is that the Democrats are going full-authoritarian lockdown mode to trash the U.S. economy and blame Trump nearer the election.
What is our government’s excuse??

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

Incompetence!

paulito
paulito
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

Posted something along these lines the other day. Democrats screamed for Trump to close everything down and then blamed him for unemployment.

Lms2
Lms2
10 days ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

Oh, I don’t know. Gavin Newsome in California is giving them a good run for their money. And Cuomo, who, I believe, has been saying New York will not reopen until there a cure.

Farinances
Farinances
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

The Florida governor is cool.
All those old people and he still managed a better death rate without lockdown.

Ewan Duffy
10 days ago
Reply to  Farinances

Georgia has re-opened without an uptick in infections.

The Spingler
The Spingler
10 days ago
Reply to  Ewan Duffy

Do you have the numbers for Georgia? I have a friend in the States who is adamant that numbers of infections are soaring in Georgia but that the governor is lying about them.

Jane
Jane
9 days ago
Reply to  The Spingler

Seems to me that there is a fundamental misunderstanding regarding infections. The more people get infected, the better. A few will get sick, so provide treatment for them. Otherwise, widespread infection with mild to no symptoms, aka herd immunity, is the goal.

grammarschoolman
grammarschoolman
10 days ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

Not to mention Drakeford. I knew there must be something good about devolution…

Annie
Annie
9 days ago

Drakeford is Stalin’s son in the spirit. A petty, mewling, shrivelled little runt, but doing his level best to emulate Papa..

Poppy
Poppy
10 days ago

So this just confirms what we suspected all along – that ministers have no balls to take any decisive action because they’re so terrified of getting ‘exposed’ at the enquiry. It’s pure face-saving politics and utterly revolting. Surely being incredibly slow to lift the lockdown and taking no action will be worse in the long run due to the mounting economic and social consequences of the lockdown, so the ministers will end up getting hammered at the enquiry anyway…?

The enquiry is one of the only things keeping me going through this insanity. These cretins have unleashed untold suffering upon the country they serve, and I will experience the sweetest schadenfreude when they finally get their almighty reckoning. I sincerely hope that actual punishment is meted out and it’s not just hand-wringing and lip service.

Anger is definitely the emotion I feel most strongly in amongst all of this but every day we keep fighting, and every day that chink of light at the end of the tunnel gets just a bit brighter. One day we will not be in the midst of this, but looking back at it. It will end.

Ethelred the Unready
Ethelred the Unready
10 days ago
Reply to  Poppy

Does anyone believe that a a Government with an 80 seat majority will ‘allow’ any kind of meaningful and independent enquiry, or that the findings will be delivered quickly, or indeed at all?

Annie
Annie
10 days ago

Simon Dolan’s judicial review may very well do the job, and no wriggling out of it.
Still time to chip in, folks.

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago
Reply to  Annie

I don’t believe for a minute that he’ll have any meaningful success, but I did think it worth contributing £20 to the cause of gumming up the machinery of government for a little while. Even if putting money in a lawyer’s pocket is a distasteful side-effect.

BecJT
BecJT
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

He did the crowdjustice for the ‘numbers’ of people, it’s used quite heavily in their statement, it’s a peculiarity of JRs to bolster the claimant’s case. The more buy in from other people you have, the stronger your argument (I only know this, as I’m involved in other thing that’s debating a JR).

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
10 days ago

More jobs for the boys

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago
Reply to  Poppy

I guess you’re quite young Poppy, because a lot of us slightly older people can see the economic fallout from this impacting on the entire rest of our lives.

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

Sadly Aiden, this is going to have deep-seated ramifications that will be multigenerational.

Poppy
Poppy
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

I’m in my early twenties and I’m all too aware of the massive fallout this will have on the rest of my working life and my employment prospects.

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
10 days ago
Reply to  Poppy

Hi Poppy I think your (our) personal freedoms may be a bigger problem from this.

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
10 days ago
Reply to  Poppy

If they don’t lift this soon there will be civil unrest – young men with nothing to do, no money, and hot weather is not a good combination at the best of times. They just haven’t put the action plan, aka ‘the cover-up of all cover-ups’ fully in place yet. Downing Street has just appointed former adviser to both May and Cameron to Cabinet Office – on secondment from Prince William’s office – not sure what that means, if anything.

Farinances
Farinances
10 days ago

“In these hot days is the mad blood stirring…..”

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago

It can’t come soon enough… horny handed sons of toil marching up Whitehall with ministers heads on pikes. I’d honour every last one of them,

Lms2
Lms2
10 days ago

Not to mention the recent high-testosterone imports with little to no loyalty to this country or people.

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

Why would they riot? Free money, free houses, immunity from the law…

crimsonpirate
crimsonpirate
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

and free access to pornhub

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
10 days ago

I am starting to hear of younger men, in lower paid jobs, who are currently furloughed are starting to get a bit restless. Hardley surprising when you are on a low wage, maybe with a child to support and you struggle when you are earning 100% of your normal wage.

ray
ray
9 days ago

Think Ray Donovan

South Coast Worker
South Coast Worker
10 days ago
Reply to  Poppy

But why would they be doubling down on universally unpopular nonsense like the 2 week quarantine for arrivals? They are just going to keep pushing to see what they can get away with .

Ewan Duffy
10 days ago

If the need to quarantine for 14 days is so strong, why not implement this immediately rather than in 2 weeks time? Ireland is adopting a voluntary isolation approach for arrivals into the country, backed up by having to give the address at which you will be staying for 14 days. These come into effect on 28 May (the same question arises – if it is that significant, why not implement immediately?)

The rules don’t apply to anyone transiting to another country so it would be possible for a UK bound person to travel from elsewhere in the world to the UK via Ireland and avoid the UK’s quarantine.

Stefan
Stefan
10 days ago
Reply to  Ewan Duffy

Utter insanity to even contemplate this now. Months ago possibly. Doing this now is the sign of this idea was though up in a Thick if Of It style circle jerk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O4CTLW-Ddu0

As a life long con voter I’ve reached the end of my line with politicians

Nigel Baldwin
Nigel Baldwin
10 days ago
Reply to  Ewan Duffy

Have they not noticed that when you get off a plane you don’t immediately set foot in the place you are staying? So you have trains, buses, coaches, cabs to catch to before you get to your house arrest, mingling with a lot of other people. Rather defeats the object.

Jonathan Castro
Jonathan Castro
10 days ago

It makes no sense. We should have had testing and quarantine of ill passengers at airports back in January. There was no need for a lock-down.

Lms2
Lms2
10 days ago
Reply to  Poppy

“ministers have no balls to take any decisive action because they’re so terrified of getting ‘exposed’ at the enquiry. ”

Except they’re already well and truly exposed. There are too many other countries and regions who haven’t gone with such a severe lockdown, if at all, with little difference in the infection rates.
There might have been a reasonable excuse for a couple of weeks, to get the Nightingale hospitals ready, and source enough PPE, what with there being a worldwide shortage. There were manufacturers willing and able to help with the latter, but that seemed to have been ignored.
The negligent and potentially deliberate transfer of infection from hospitals to care homes is the one terrible policy that shouldn’t be forgotten or forgiven.

Jonathan Castro
Jonathan Castro
10 days ago
Reply to  Poppy

More job enquiries sent off to the US today 🙂

Louise
Louise
10 days ago

Does anyone else feel like things are slowly changing in our communities? People are daring to ask questions and talk about this? Something I have found very refreshing is how people are willing to listen to reason on a one to one basis. Little encounters make me think that people are listening, at least when they aren’t in sharing a social media space with a screaming virtue signaller, drowning out their rational thought process.

I was waiting at the Post Office today, I waited my turn to enter and as I did the woman behind me said in an extremely apologetic way “Do you mind if I enter the shop behind you to look at the cards?” At the counter, I was about 10 metres away from her. I just smiled and said ‘of course I don’t mind. I’m not remotely bothered about the 2 metres”… honestly, she beamed at me. She wasn’t disgusted or annoyed. Other very small things like that are happening. A friend I spoke to said she hadn’t even thought about the opposing argument to lockdown, it wasn’t even on her radar. I can’t say she’s completely comfortable with those ideas yet but she was open to talking about it and said her perspective on it had changed somewhat.

The Twitter screamers only inhabit in their own online bubble of fear. There’s little point for me to try to out-shout them in their natural habitat of hate because they think a smart quip or a fake statistic seals their moral victory. A parents What’s App group message where I simply said “Our kids should be back at school enjoying this sunshine” fell completely flat and unanswered in a usually responsive group.
At first I was angry that they were all so scared of this disease but actually I think they were just frightened of even talking about it in an online space. We’ve all been locked away and our thoughts have been guided by fear… maybe as we slowly merge from our dark caves and start to chat to each other and smile and reassure ourselves that we aren’t all diseased demons, maybe things will start moving faster.

I’m feeling hopeful. I hope you all are too.

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
10 days ago
Reply to  Louise

I was feeling hopeful earlier – and then I listened to the stuck record that is Sir Patrick Vallance and the droning of Priti Patel! Problem is it is Friday, and I normally have that as an alcohol-free day so I can look forward to Saturday and Sunday back on the Sauvignon Blanc!!

Farinances
Farinances
10 days ago

Don’t do it to yourself!

Louise
Louise
10 days ago

The pressure on them is increasing dramatically each day.
I would create a graph to demonstrate what I mean but they have lost all meaning.

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago
Reply to  Louise

I know what you mean…. I’m reaching the point of graph-psychosis…

ianp
ianp
10 days ago
Reply to  Louise

Don’t rule that out at all. I am finding that too when you meet a ‘normal’

It’s one fucking giant world lab rat experiment.

The only thing is that the utter contempt that I feel for the lockdownistas is beyond any sort of hatred I have ever felt for any group of people ever in my entire life. Not sure how I can get past that and I have always been such a logical person – maybe that’s what it is, a bizarre mindset I find hard to grasp. There will be previous friends that I will have no problem not speaking to ever again after all of this

Louise
Louise
10 days ago
Reply to  ianp

Yep, I can relate. It’s as if they are intentionally obfuscating the truth, rather than just being ignorant of it. I will go one of two ways for those people… they will either just slowly go silent on lockdown and focus instead on lynching politicians over some other point distantly related to it, or they will double down. As more jobs go and more people become homeless and a multitude of other horrendous injustices unfold, they will in all probability not be able to equate that to the faults of their own views but I think this will be a far smaller group than we think and most normal(ish) people will have to have a sudden opinion shift at some point. I want someone to ask the government where the tipping point is? Is it always going to be covid protection at all costs? When, in their opinion do the scales tip and cancer deaths, heart attacks, suicide, alcoholism etc come first? For us is has already happened but seriously, any human being no matter how extreme their views must have a tipping point on this… where does their lie?

arfurmo
arfurmo
10 days ago
Reply to  ianp

Yes-I’ve got one who would lockdown forever and at infinite cost if it saved one life and another who thinks that the virus is so deadly that any lockdown breach is selfish . If I never speak to or see them again it will be too soon.

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
10 days ago
Reply to  arfurmo

Save one cv19 life at any cost, blow the cost of other lives. I am making sure I speak to colleagues to get a feel for how they see lockdown & this entire cv19 situation. Some are getting better, others are in a hole and will need medical help to get out.

David Mc
David Mc
10 days ago
Reply to  ianp

I completely agree. I will find it very hard to be in the same room as some friends and colleagues when all this is over. Anyone who actively approved of the lockdown has at least in a small way contributed to the buggering up of everything.

ianp
ianp
10 days ago
Reply to  David Mc

It’s strange. I am asking myself why I feel like this, you got to self analyse because even we are part of this huge psychological shit fest.

I mean : IRA, Al Qaeda, ISIS… To some small extent I could see their motive and their beliefs, but not agree with it or obviously their methods. All these lot have got nothing on the lockdowners.

I can only think of the Nazis as a comparison, extreme as that is

Farinances
Farinances
10 days ago
Reply to  ianp

North Korea. Except KJU is a giant floating blue NHS sign.

Max
Max
10 days ago
Reply to  ianp

Personally I tend to cut most lockdowners some slack. Sure there are a few little Hitler’s out there, but most are just scared. Why? Because a huge proportion are mathematically illiterate. Why do I say this?
Well, most people who read this page will be paying attention to data like the IFR, which according to the consensus is (at worst) around 0.3% – in other words, even if you catch the virus you have around 99.7% chance of survival. Which makes banging everyone up in solitary and crashing the economy just a very little bit over the top.
But suppose the IFR was 30%, in other words if left unchecked, one third of the population would die from the virus. Would the same lockdown measures be justified then? I think most of us sceptics (certainly me) would say yes because the consequences of 1/3 of the population dying would be catastrophic anyway.
The point is, to the average person, there is no difference between 0.3% and 30%, they are both meaningless numbers. They just hear “doctors say a lot of people are dying” from the BBC and conclude something very dangerous is out there (as we would faced with the 30% figure).
Similarly death figures of 3000, 30000 or 300000 all sound the same – in other words “a lot”. And figures of £30 million, £30 billion or £30 trillion in lost output (or extra borrowing/taxes) all just sound like “more than I want to think about”. So they shy away from any costs/risks/lives calculation because they have no way of estimating it which makes any sense to them.
The problem is we have been “dumbing down” public discourse for a long time now so it is not surprising that people jump to unwise conclusions.

Farinances
Farinances
10 days ago
Reply to  Max

Sadly I think you are probably right. When you explain IFR to most people they look confused for a second and then immediately relieved. I think the papers/TV were bandying CFR around too much especially in the early days, which put the extreme shits up people.

ianp
ianp
10 days ago
Reply to  Max

Probably right, and maybe I am being harsh. But having spoken to a few people at the end of February on weekend away, everyone said the same thing as I was saying : bound to have been spreading for months – yup, bit like the flu but not the flu, yeah you might get extremely unlucky, again just like the flu, oh and yeah, look at what looks like the majority of people being assymptomatic. We probably all already had it – yup. What’s changed since then in terms of what the virus is ? Nothing. Not a thing. Except probably it being shown to be even less lethal than originally thought, oh the irony.

Nobody treated these numbers as absolutes, there was already a load of evidence out there to suggest this was just another thing we would have to live within.

No real maths geniuses amongst them

And then what? Complete and utter loss of all reason and sense through the pathetic MSM, who again were even saying what percentage were assymptomatic as a tiniest of reminder on every gleeful death update.

Instead of almost throwing half their furniture at the TV like me, they’ve let themselves be manipulated, brainwashed into being some sort of virtuous martyrs… The most insidious of which are those who claim how great things are now – can tend the garden, great to have less cars on the road, how we should all take up fucking yoga and be vegan, health before wealth (illogical).. Don’t think that ‘non essential’ jobs should exist – that particular one truly boils my piss.

God, I’ve met all of them.

I only like one aspect of the above – less cars so when I have been out and about it’s been a rare pleasure on the motorways. However it’s an utterly selfish perspective compared to the misery to millions of ruined lives, businesses, child abuse through no schooling, and God knows what other horrific consequences… The worst of which is a fascist state with no freedom of speech.

To the apathetic and scared, we need to snap the mentally weak out of it, somehow. To the zealots who are lovin it, I am ready to get violent

Louise
Louise
9 days ago
Reply to  ianp

Yep, the apparently clear canals of Venice balance out the total destruction of life as we know it.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
9 days ago
Reply to  Max

I think a lot of people ARE dying from the BBC. It has a lot to answer for.

RDawg
RDawg
9 days ago
Reply to  ianp

Same here Ian. I have (actually, had) a couple of friends who are now so “woke”, I feel that all they do is judge me. I won’t miss them.

Louise
Louise
10 days ago
Reply to  Louise

In my haste to vent, my typos are dreadful. Clearly I meant emerge not merge although I am sure there will be plenty of merging in the wider community soon too 🙂

chris c
chris c
10 days ago
Reply to  Louise

Yes and no.

I walked along the (narrow) path by the river and stopped to chat with someone who was temporarily blocked by a fallen branch,

Further along I spotted someone coming the other way and stopped in a relatively wide bit. He became completely paranoid, especially as there was someone walking behind me, turned tail and fled. He was walking his dog and his wife, wearing a scary navy mask and carrying a bottle of hand sanitiser.

Sanity returned later as I sat on a seat and had a long conversation with a couple of people as cynical as me. Strangely there are a lot of them around these parts, I recommended this site, Hector Drummond and the estimable Malcolm Kendrick among others.

Jonathan Castro
Jonathan Castro
10 days ago
Reply to  Louise

Little hitler in the food store near me – a woman who told me to wait outside (even though a guy had just left), and waving at me to get away from the entrance once I had complied with her request.
Utterly pathetic.

Louise
Louise
10 days ago

The most power she ever had in her life.

Mark
Mark
10 days ago

Just walk away, surely? I’ve refused to queue to get into a shop throughout this nonsense. They need to lose business over it.

Jonathan Castro
Jonathan Castro
10 days ago
Reply to  Mark

I did. I gave up and went to another shop where there was no queue.

chris c
chris c
10 days ago

That’s the way to do it! Vote with your wallet, er card.

ianp
ianp
10 days ago
Reply to  chris c

Forced to wear a mask to go in? Cya! Will take my business elsewhere. Simple

Louise
Louise
9 days ago
Reply to  ianp

I will not ever be forced to wear a mask. The thought that we will be forced to causes a physical reaction in me. It may as well be a large badge saying ‘I’m a member of the covid cult’

Tim Bidie
Tim Bidie
10 days ago

This is not complicated.

Modelling, international comparisons, complicated mortality rate analysis; all pointless because there is no consistency in the recording of data either in Britain or across international borders.

So, just as the best weather forecast is to stick your head outside, the best way to decide the lockdown argument is to see whether Sweden has moved towards its neighbours policies or vice versa.

‘When deciding to reopen schools, Norway’s Public Health Institute used the experience of Sweden, along with Iceland, Taiwan and Singapore – where no clusters of the virus were linked to schools – as an example when it explained its own reasoning.’

https://www.thelocal.se/20200520/as-europe-comes-out-of-lockdown-what-lessons-can-be-learned-from-sweden

grammarschoolman
grammarschoolman
10 days ago
Reply to  Tim Bidie

Except that it’s Norway that’s only got a few deaths, while Sweden’s are climbing by the day.

ianp
ianp
10 days ago

Oh Jesus, another absolute numbers ifonlysavesonelifer. Think much bigger wider longer term picture and you will crawl out of the hole your mind is in

Farinances
Farinances
10 days ago

Sweden’s economy is not fucked. Which is the key point in all this I think.

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
9 days ago

@grammarschoolman

So, Norway has solved death almost completely yet Sweden hasn’t quite solved the question of mortality?

Are you that…… (I can’t actually find the right word) *something* that you can’t cope with concept of death. People die everyday, thousands of them, get used to it. People died before The Chinese Killer Virus and they are dying now, after it.

I’m guessing you’ve never worked at the coal face of heathcare as you would be completely useless, people die, get used to it.

Tim Bidie
Tim Bidie
9 days ago

And yet Norway is following Sweden’s policies, not vice versa. Why do you think that might be?

Do you think all countries are using the same death registration rules (clue: they are not)?

Are you aware that the rules for death registration in this country have been recently altered?

‘In an emergency period of the COVID-19 pandemic there is a relaxation of previous
legislation concerning completion of the medical certificate cause of death (MCCD) by
medical practitioners….’

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf

Are you aware that is also the case elsewhere, for example: Germany, New York……..

Jane
Jane
9 days ago
Reply to  Tim Bidie

Changes to completion of US Department of Health and Human Services Blue Form (so-called because standard death cert is blue) in the USA, too. Most people do not understand the relevance of the change. Because a doctor who explained it was on Fox News, I was ad-hommed for sending the info to my (small) list. “You are getting your info from Fox News!!!!” I don’t even own a TV and so never watch Fox News, or any news, unless something is linked by something else that I am reading, such as a comment.

But this ad-homming is going on all the time. I watched a fantastic interview with Dr. Dolores Cahill of University College, Dublin (saw the link somewhere), and I thought everyone should view it. She has credentials, BTW, up the wazoo! But I got three ad-homming emails because of the Youtube channel where the interview appeared, which was someone called Del Bigtree. I had never prev. heard of him but I could see that he was non-U from the style of his opener. Nevertheless I wanted to hear the interview, and Bigtree did a pretty good job. Mainly, Cahill just took the ball and ran with it and presented IMO a fantastic overview of every aspect of the current situ, plus info on mask wearing, herd immunity, plus the legal ramifications of excess deaths due to lockdown, etc. I told my list to ignore the lead-in and just get to the actual interview. I also sent her CV, so they could see her extremely impressive credentials as a microbiologist. Even so, these people refused to watch the interview and actually *warned* me about the danger of Del Bigtree. Self-righteous nanny behavior coupled with lack of curiosity. A particularly annoying combo. I mean, if I saw that kind of CV I would want to know what this person has to say.
FYI https://people.ucd.ie/dolores.cahill

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago

Liberal Elite: BREXIT will be the biggest act of national self-harm in history.

Boris: Hold my beer, Gove.

Farinances
Farinances
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

Heeheheh.

Needs a line adding.

Liberal Elite: OH THAT’S GREAT BEER

AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

Thanks. That made me chuckle, and I needed to a lot!

LiberalForLiberty
LiberalForLiberty
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

As one of the “liberal elite” I agree with this comment, AidanR. Always dreaded what brexit could be, never imagined a UK government would commit even greater self-harm without even having had a referendum to encourage them.

ianp
ianp
10 days ago
Reply to  AidanR

Hmmm, funny enough looking at some of the bailouts being proposed for the southern European economies, and reconstitution of trade links being discussed I might suggest that Brexit could not have come at a better time….

And I voted to remain.

Farinances
Farinances
10 days ago
Reply to  ianp

#TeamWTO

I actually say this with a heavy heart because I did want a nice trade deal, but I think at this juncture we are better off completely out of that flaming territory as soon as humanly possible. We can do a deal with the individual nations once the Euro and therefore probably the EU ceases to exist. (I gave them 20 years. Corona: Hold my beer).

AidanR
AidanR
9 days ago
Reply to  Farinances

The proximate danger is that Trump will take the USA out of the WTO as part of his ongoing (and soon to escalate) war with China and all things UN.

ianp
ianp
10 days ago

Judging from the steadily increasing number of comments and visitors to this site I think it might be in danger of crashing soon… Keep up the good work Toby.

We’re all doing our bit too, am working on a friend I messaged yesterday, first time in a bloody long time, who sent back her usual list of woes and whatnots and signed off with ‘Keep safe’…. Grrr…

Deep Breath…. And now I go to work.

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago
Reply to  ianp

They already replatformed it once…. I think the guys who host the site now have pretty scalable infrastructure and seem to know their onions.

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
10 days ago
Reply to  ianp

Talking to people, strangers, neibours, work colluges anybody, is the way forward, don’t argue, give them facts, help them question what is being done to them and perhaps more importantly, their children, and grand children. Some reject everything, let them stew, but the ones where you can get a conversation going, spend the time to push on.

David Mc
David Mc
10 days ago

I thought people here might be interested in the governor of Tokyo’s comments yesterday about the ending of the state of emergency in the Japanese capital. For those who haven’t been keeping up with events in Japan, there has been no overall lockdown there – just some fairly mild restrictions on travel and various enjoinders from the government for people to be careful. They’ve had very few deaths. Most of the country is now back to normal – the OLD normal – and Tokyo is the last place to still be under emergency measures, for obvious reasons. Here’s the quote, translated to English (from The Japan Times, here: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/22/national/yuriko-koike-state-of-emergency-end-plan/#.XsgB7C_MzBI):

“This is the final stretch…We need to proceed cautiously, but each day the city meets these criteria is another step toward reclaiming the lives we had before.”

Note the language used here. Reclaiming the lives we had before. Not the new normal. Not indefinite social distancing. The lives we had before.

Where is this kind of language in our leadership when the country is clearly crying out for it?

I lived in Japan for the best part of a decade, and still have friends and family there as it is where my wife is from. With each passing day I feel more strongly that the only alternative open to any of us sane ones is to leave this country, and Japan is the option I’ll probably go for.

Farinances
Farinances
10 days ago
Reply to  David Mc

The Japanese are delightfully mad when it doesn’t matter, and wonderfully sane when it does.

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
10 days ago
Reply to  David Mc

Here, here. Not been since late 1990s, but desperately keen to go back. My friend in Tokyo suggested we all visited for the Olympics, but that, sadly not on the cards.

David Mc
David Mc
10 days ago

I’m also in Tyneside. Nice to know there is more than one lockdown sceptic in the region!

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
10 days ago
Reply to  David Mc

I saw a video from South Shields a couple of days ago, looked like many sensible people in your part of the world.

David Mc
David Mc
10 days ago
Reply to  DoubtingDave

The North East is a world of its own, mate. Actually I think we have it relatively sane in comparison from what I hear about from the rest of the country. There is all the social distancing nonsense but people are quite prepared to break the guidelines, and even if they’re not they’re always willing to stop for a chat and get a bit of normality that way.

Farinances
Farinances
10 days ago
Reply to  David Mc

Same in Yorkshire it seems like. Not many people seem that bothered, and definitely not aggresssively so. They do the polite “I’ll wait for you to walk past me” thing.

Everyone is a committed cultist however (rainbows in windows, clapping like seals)

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
10 days ago
Reply to  David Mc

I don’t live there now but my Mam does. Fortunately managed to visit her a couple of weeks before lockdown. I know there will be plenty of sceptics there though – outside the posh bits!

Angela
Angela
10 days ago
Reply to  David Mc

The Japanese also value the health of their citizens, because unlike the rest of the world they stopped using the MMR vaccine in 1993, after many children developed non-viral meningitis, 3 deaths, 8 with permanent handicaps ranging from damaged hearing and blindness to loss of control of limbs. They now use individual vaccines for measles, mumps and rubella. Other countries feel that it’s OK to sacrifice those children for the ease of administration and cost effectiveness of doing ‘three in one’.

Pippa Grey
Pippa Grey
10 days ago
Reply to  David Mc

I havent read every day, so forgive me if this has already been suggested as a Theme Tune.

Joe Jackson’s “Cancer”

Don’t touch that dial
Don’t try to smile
Just take this pill
It’s in your file

Don’t work hard
Don’t play hard
Don’t plan for the graveyard
Remember –

Everything
Everything gives you cancer
Everything
Everything gives you cancer
There’s no cure, there’s no answer
Everything gives you cancer

Somehow the ideas of control and inevitableness, that you have to give up everything to avoid WuFlu but you’ll still get it, have had me thinking of this song even before I found your site.

Farinances
Farinances
9 days ago
Reply to  Pippa Grey

Joe Jackson is God

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago

I say, Toby…. you know Boris and Gove, don’t you? You could get to them.

Can you send me your measurements for this vest I’m running up?

I’ll chip in for your statue in Trafalgar Square.

South Coast Worker
South Coast Worker
10 days ago

Please can someone post the correct link to the revised CDC CFR numbers so I can share it on. The current link doesn’t seem to be the right page. And their site is a mess to navigate

Kevin
Kevin
10 days ago

Hi,
Can anyone give a succinct explanation of what constitutes a pandemic? Seeing as I don’t really think we’re in one I need to know how to properly verbalise why that is.
Thanks.

Lms2
Lms2
10 days ago
Reply to  Kevin
Kevin
Kevin
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

Thanks.

grammarschoolman
grammarschoolman
10 days ago
Reply to  Kevin

It’s a panic of the demos, obviously.

Mark
Mark
10 days ago

Pandemonium

GetAGrip
GetAGrip
10 days ago
Reply to  Kevin

It is a (new) disease which has spread worldwide, (cf epidemic – spread over a large area, more specifically a country), and results in a positively unhinged Public Health over-reaction by a British Government – OK made that last bit up, but maybe not really.

ianp
ianp
10 days ago
Reply to  Kevin

A relatively weak transmitable virus that appears and spreads geographically across multiple regions of the world. As piddly as that.

If the ‘common cold’ just appeared in the past few months, it would also be, by definition, a ‘pandemic’

The word itself has become weaponised by the lockdownistas. ‘oh you don’t understand it’s a P A N D E M I C!!!’….

So what.

Jane
Jane
9 days ago
Reply to  ianp

Now being called a Plandemic by quite a few anti-cultists.

TJS7
TJS7
10 days ago

Went for a walk this evening and fewer people were leaping out of the way. Most seemed relaxed. So while I am despairing at our politicians I think a glimmer of hope can be found in the changing attitude of the public.

Cody
Cody
10 days ago
Reply to  TJS7

Still a fair amount of terrified zombies as well unfortunately;on an earlier walk back from the shop I watched the woman in front literally zig zag from one side of the road to the other every time someone approached on her side of the pavement. She did it 3 times in about 50m.Was actually funny to watch in my present unsympathetic mood and i cruelly sped up at one point to block her route back.

Peter Thompson
Peter Thompson
10 days ago

Does anyone know of any dentist anywhere who is open ? The whole of British dentistry seems to be cowed in fear of this nasty virus with a similar fatality rate to flu. German dentists have remained open throughout and don’t seem to be wetpantyhose wearers . I would drive there taking the ferry if I could but Pretty Useless Patel seems to be closing the border to the UK just as everyone else is opening theirs.

arfurmo
arfurmo
10 days ago
Reply to  Peter Thompson

I don’t think the dentists are the problem -it is the Government -see https://bda.org/advice/Coronavirus/Pages/faqs.aspx

Steve B
Steve B
10 days ago
Reply to  Peter Thompson

I have a small abscess and was booked for root canal treatment then a crown. A course of antibiotics cleared it temporarily but it is back now, a constant low level ache. Is it true the only dental option is some sort of dental ‘hub’ where the only treatment available is extraction?

Peter Thompson
Peter Thompson
10 days ago
Reply to  Steve B

Only treatment options at the dental hubs are more antibiotics or extract the tooth unless you re a lorry driver and can get to Germany where all the dentists are open.

Lms2
Lms2
10 days ago
Reply to  Peter Thompson

Dentists were ordered to close, and when they open, they might possibly restrict their services to extractions, and checkups only. This is a guess, and I sincerely hope not.

Max
Max
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

Dentists were not ordered to close, all medical and vetinary practices were exempted from the lockdown restrictions. However what did happen was they received guidance that no practice should be performed which could result in an “aerosol” of potential virus laden air being created. This means no polishing, drilling, filing or similar, so effectively bans 90% of possible treatments. Simple extractions however do not involve this and so are permitted, and many dentists have remained open for this service (equally many private practices have closed because they do not wish to stay open solely to perform such extractions when other treatments would be more appropriate and/or lucrative).
As another poster said a while back, this has pushed dentistry back to pre-Victorian times, but the situation described by Lms2 is what applies now, not at some future date.

DoubtingDave
DoubtingDave
10 days ago
Reply to  Peter Thompson

A few days ago I recalls someone saying there are only 10 dental practices open in the whole of Greater London, someone else commented that dentists are only giving out antibiotics and doing emergency extractions. I don’t hold out much hope for you getting to see an actual dentist, sadly.

Stefan
Stefan
10 days ago
Reply to  Peter Thompson

Airports open. Just fly to Germany. I’m sure they will be happy to take your money.

RDawg
RDawg
10 days ago

Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock, Michael Gove and Priti Patel – can we put them all into indefinite lockdown please? I would support that 100%.

AidanR
AidanR
10 days ago
Reply to  RDawg
paulito
paulito
10 days ago
Reply to  RDawg

In the general population of a high security prison.

Lms2
Lms2
10 days ago

https://m.youtube.com/watchv=5oaweiqijyk
The Moving Goalposts from Free State to Police State – Viva Frei Vlawg

This isn’t the only country where people feel trapped by the ever-moving lockdown goalposts. This blogger is in Canada, and a (an ex-?) lawyer, so he looks at the lockdown from the perspective of entering a contract, i.e. to slow down the spread of the virus and not overwhelm the healthcare system, the population have to stay in their homes. But both of those aims have been achieved but lockdown has not been lifted. Now governments are saying that we have to “stop the virus” or “wait for a vaccine” or “prevent a second wave,” choose your pick.
They’ve moved the goalposts. In some countries it’s worse than others, but despite the mounting evidence that the virus goes away on its own, and has a much lower mortality rate than first thought, we’re still going with the Chinese Communist Party model. Maybe we should just be grateful that we’re not being forcibly barricaded in our houses and left to die of starvation. People are dying of untreated cancer, heart attacks, strokes, suicide, alcoholism, etc, etc, instead…

FiFi Trixabelle
FiFi Trixabelle
10 days ago
Reply to  Lms2

YouTube link, no longer available? Another one bites the dust??

Lms2
Lms2
10 days ago

For some reason the copied video link doesn’t work. The searching for “Viva Frei Vlawg” and it will be in his list of videos. It’s a bit of a pain, but at least it’s still up…for now.

swedenborg
swedenborg
10 days ago

https://twitter.com/ElonBachman/status/1263846547986530310
“In a few short weeks we went from “We may have to lock down for 18 months to await a vaccine” To: “We may not be able to find enough virus to run vaccine trials” Incredible.”

Pebbles
Pebbles
10 days ago
Reply to  swedenborg

OMG. What a laugh.

IanE
IanE
10 days ago
Reply to  swedenborg

Mind you, it’s a great excuse if you know your potential vaccine is a dud!

South Coast Worker
South Coast Worker
10 days ago
Reply to  swedenborg

Last I heard they still haven’t isolated this virus. They’re just guessing there is a virus as a genetic commonality between victims.

paulito
paulito
10 days ago
Reply to  swedenborg

Just read in a Spanish paper that China has a vaccine that “generates antibodies and gives immunity”. Doesn’t the human immune system do this. Wo’nt be queuing up for a vaccine cooked up in a matter of months. They can stick their vaccine up their holes.

Farinances
Farinances
10 days ago
Reply to  paulito

I wouldn’t believe this from any gvt. at so early a stage.
ESPECIALLY not China.

AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
10 days ago
Reply to  paulito

NEVER TRUST THE CCP.

ianp
ianp
10 days ago
Reply to  paulito

Nobody is going to want to be injected with that chinese shit

Biker
Biker
10 days ago

I’m 50 in June and i’m sick of it. Times running out for me and i’m damned if i’m gonna sit back and go gently into the night. For my 50th i was going to the British GP F1 ( i go every year but hey) so i doubt that will happen and i’m supposed to be going to Monza for the Italian F1 in September but who knows? Not to mention i go out riding my motorcycle every chance i get. This bollocks is doing my nut in. Mix that in with me not being off my work during the lockdown i think i deserve a f*cking award. I’m paying tax so others can sit on their arse and not only demand i serve them but social distance and all the rest of it.
Don’t tell the Scottish Nazi Party but i went further than the 5 miles Fraulein Sturgeon says i’m allowed on my motorcycle. If she sends the Gestapo i’ll deny it and say it wasn’t me it was a big boy what done it.

Annie
Annie
10 days ago
Reply to  Biker

Keep your pecker up, brother. All of us here feel like screaming at times, but there will be an end. And there will be a reckoning. And Sturgeon will be caviar, or rather, cheap lumpfish roe. And Comrade Drakeford will be ducked in the village pond, hopefully terminally.

You will ride your bike and I will ride my horse and the world will be ours. (Please slow down when we meet, as the horse is a bit nervous. Most bikers are very considerate about that.)

Adele Bull
Adele Bull
10 days ago
Reply to  Biker

I’d got tickets for Michael Bublé at Warwick Castle… 😔

grammarschoolman
grammarschoolman
10 days ago
Reply to  Adele Bull

I see your Michael Bublé and I raise you Glyndebourne.

JohnB
JohnB
10 days ago

Hmmm. They have ‘furloughed’ some staff, but not others.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
10 days ago
Reply to  Biker

Well done you!!!!

GetAGrip
GetAGrip
10 days ago
Reply to  Biker

Discussed the 5 mile thing with some mates today who want to go do a hill then get pissed.

Even using a Country or Nautical Mile we can’t get within range of a suitable hill.
It was suggested that we pool our 5 mile allowance, which gives us 25 miles, but I don’t think that’ll wash with ScotPlod or a vigilant SNP Gauleiter.

Anyway, we settled on the quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson (which probably just paraphrases what he actually said, but that’s just detail): “If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so”.

OK, he was American, and banging on about taxes due to Us for funding their defense, and he didn’t say ‘but it’ll cost you £30 in accordance with Coronavirus Regulations if you’re nicked”, but that’s just more detail.

So we’re off up a hill, then a barby with tins and 2 fingers up to Nikki-no-mates.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
10 days ago
Reply to  GetAGrip

I hope you have a wonderful hassle-free trip!

Hammer Onats
Hammer Onats
9 days ago
Reply to  GetAGrip

Well done. But take care you don’t get your car vandalised by the local Covid vigilantes- there still a few of these imbeciles around.

paulito
paulito
10 days ago
Reply to  Biker

When they let us out in Spain for a one hour walk we had to stay within 1 km of our homes. Effectively a walk round the prison courtyard.

AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
10 days ago
Reply to  paulito

The Spanish authorities went full-on totalitarian, didn’t they.

Annie
Annie
9 days ago

Spirit of Franco abroad, no doubt.

Steve B
Steve B
10 days ago
Reply to  Biker

I know how you feel! I follow a channel on YouTube called ‘Itchy Boots’, a very relaxing and well put together vlog by a Dutch woman who is (or was) biking around the world on Royal Enfield Himalayan. She got as far as Peru, then had to abandon her bike there and get back home to the Netherlands when the lockdown happened.

Anyway, I just watched an episode she put up a week ago, in which she shows us a bit of the Netherlands and talked about how normal life is returning – she said they had an ‘intelligent lockdown’, and as of the 15th schools were open again, hairdressers open, nail bars, massage salons(!), everything apart from bars and restaurants. I wish we’d had an intelligent lockdown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ish-fpaj81Y

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
10 days ago
Reply to  Steve B

Or an intelligent unlock would do!

Steve B
Steve B
10 days ago
Reply to  Steve B

Just watched her latest video posted today. Some busy scenes in a town, it all looked so normal and relaxed, barely any social distancing, most shops open, people using cash, lot of people milling around, not one face mask, NOT A SINGLE ONE did I spot.

As for an intelligent unlock – I will not be holding my breath!

ikaraki
ikaraki
10 days ago
Reply to  Biker

Been way further that 5 miles many times! Seen some police out and about in cars, but only come close to getting in bother when I crested a hill to spot them out with a speed camera, at least they were doing their job.. Drive into the capital nearly every day, no issue leaving, and my exercise is only possible (fun) in certain places, just gotta be crafty with the parking.

On the note of working, interestingly enough I have been customer facing for almost the entire lockdown period (shop closed over the first weekend, had police round checking), must be seeing up to a hundred people a day, and no one at work has been off with a respiratory tract infection. Few instances of food poisoning (skiving?) though.. Seems that I should be more distrustful of my colleagues’ coffee making than anyone’s general health!

Awkward Git
Awkward Git
9 days ago
Reply to  Biker

Get a map and draw a circle on it with a 5 mile radius from your house/start point. Ride as much a you like but stay within the circle. If stopped and asked who far you have come just point to the map and show the shortest route between your start point and where you are stopped.
Think laterally and sneakily as there is always a get out in legislation.

JohnB
JohnB
9 days ago
Reply to  Biker

Ffs, Biker, at 50 you’re still a youngster. In your prime and all that.

I’m nearly twenty years older than you, and have also been working full-time (at home, admittedly). Remember, if they get you feeling low, the bad guys have achieved their objective !

Make sure you go for a 50 mile burn on your 50th !

(I strongly doubt you’d ever ‘go quietly’ on your motorbike. Am I right ?).

Kung Flu Lou
Kung Flu Lou
10 days ago

The ridiculous timing of this quarantine BS is the last straw for me. I’ll be too late to save the country, but I’ll be voting anyone but Tory next time round.

Kung Flu Lou
Kung Flu Lou
10 days ago
Reply to  Kung Flu Lou

*It’ll*

CarrieAH
CarrieAH
10 days ago
Reply to  Kung Flu Lou

I shall probably vote for Farage next time. Certainly not this lot, or Starmer’s gang.

CarrieAH
CarrieAH
10 days ago
Reply to  Kung Flu Lou

Or . . . there’s always the good old Monster Raving Loony Party, because that’s what I’m turning into – a raving loony right now. Angry, fed up, depressed, and throwing things.