Young People Over-Estimate Covid Risk
A new working paper published in the National Bureau of Economic Research contains a shocking table (see above). The results are based on an online survey of over 1,500 Americans from May 6th – 13th.
The respondents in the 18-34 year-old age group thought their risk of contracting COVID-19 was about 8.8% and if they caught it their risk of being hospitalised around 7.5% and their risk of dying 2%. If those figures were true, that would mean that 0.176% of 18-34 year-olds would die from coronavirus. There are 76.2 million Americans aged 18-34, so if the respondents’ estimate of the risk was correct that would mean 134,112 people in that age group will die.
Needless to say, the real risk posed to 18-34 year-olds is far lower. The Stanford Professor John Ioannidis co-authored a paper in May entitled “Population-level COVID-19 mortality risk for non-elderly individuals overall and for non-elderly individuals without underlying diseases in pandemic epicenters”. It includes the following table showing the total number of under-40 year-olds who’d died from the virus in various countries:
**Data shown for the group with age <35 years (not available for age <40 years)
Admittedly, this was up to date on April 24th and the numbers will have increased a little since then, but not by much. Ioannidis et al concluded that if you’re under 65 the risk of dying in a road traffic accident is higher than dying from COVID-19.
Herd Immunity
A science professor has got in touch to comment on my piece in the Telegraph on Saturday in which I claimed the UK was well on its way to achieving herd immunity. I cannot be any more specific than that because he doesn’t want to be identified. But he says that, if anything, I understated it.
I note your article today saying “we’re on our way to achieving herd immunity”.
The fact is, however, we already have achieved it!
Once herd immunity has been achieved, the fraction of people infected starts to fall. Since R has been <1 for months now, then by definition, we achieved herd immunity at each point in time over those months for the way society was operating at each of those points in time. This does not prove we have enough immunity in the population to keep R <1 (i.e., to maintain herd immunity) if we (ever) fully release lockdown – but we both know the examples out there that suggest we do have enough immunity.
This is not just an academic point I am making. It is relevant when you look at the Leicester situation. Even in Leicester we still do have herd immunity, i.e., the prevalence of viral infection continues to decline. It is just declining slower here than elsewhere. Nationally it has fallen by >100 fold. It has fallen a few fold less in Leicester, and a few fold more elsewhere. Admittedly there probably were a few weeks bridging May and June when it plateaued or crept up a little in Leicester and elsewhere (i.e., R very slightly exceeded 1), but that has been resolved in the last few weeks.
Although it’s possible that the whole Leicester situation is nothing more than an artefact, due to the fact that PHE do not publish the total number of tests done (i.e., they only release the number of positives). So if a slightly larger fraction of the population in the Leicestershire region were being tested (for whatever reason) compared to other places, then this would give the impression that there is an increased prevalence. Interestingly, just two weeks ago, a PHE report sent to Peter Soulsby, the Mayor of Leicester, stated: “It is considered likely that a large contribution to the apparent change may be associated with increasing testing…rather than a true increase in the number of new infections occurring” and “Evidence for the scale of the outbreak is limited and may, in part, be artefactually related to growth in availability of testing.”
A Future Oxford Student Writes
A reader who has accepted the offer of a place at Oxford starting in the autumn contacted me a couple of months ago to ask me whether I thought it was worth going or whether they’d be better off deferring if they could. I said the situation might look less glum in a couple of months. Turns out, I was wrong.
You may already be aware of this, but I thought I’d draw your attention to the latest news on the arrangements for students in the autumn – here is an excerpt from the website:
“From the start of the new academic year, face coverings will be required during face-to-face teaching and in indoor shared spaces, with exceptions for both individuals and settings where they are not appropriate (for example on grounds of disability). Details on how this will operate will be consulted on.
“University libraries will operate social distancing through capacity limits, with spacing of reader seats, one-way systems, and enhanced hygiene measures, as well as a ‘seat-finder’ app so that reading room spaces can be easily identified.
“Our spaces – both research and teaching, as well as social spaces, communal areas and areas open to the public – will be adapted to ensure social distancing and appropriate ventilation are maintained in accordance with government and scientific advice. We will be timetabling activities and staggering timings to ensure social distancing measures are as effective as possible. The adaptations to our spaces, supported by clear signage and markings, will enable all to safely enter, move through, work in and exit buildings and facilities.”
All quoted from: the University website.
Lectures will be online for at least the first term. Social distancing will also be in place, so I’m not holding out for much in the way of musical societies, drama or group sport…
I asked the student if they could defer for a year. Answer: probably not. On the University website it says:
Will Oxford let offer holders defer their place to 2021 if they don’t wish to start in October 2020?
Subject to any public health conditions still being in force, we are expecting to welcome a full cohort of new undergraduates in October 2020, so we will not routinely support requests for deferral. Any offer holders with particular, verifiable reasons to wish to defer their place should contact the college which made their offer or open-offer to discuss this.
Swiss Doctor Updates Site
The Swiss Doctor has updated his site and, as always, it contains a brilliant summary of the latest research showing the widespread prevalence of T cell cross immunity, etc., buttressing the view that we’ve nearly achieved herd immunity across Europe and America. Below is an extract from the section on the lethality of the virus:
Most antibody studies have shown a population-based Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) of 0.1% to 0.3%. The US health authority CDC published in May was a cautious “best estimate” of 0.26%.
At the end of May, however, an immunological study by the University of Zurich was published, which for the first time showed that the usual antibody tests that measure antibodies in the blood (IgG and IgM) can detect at most about one fifth of all coronavirus infections.
The reason for this is that in most people the new coronavirus is already neutralised by antibodies on the mucous membrane (IgA) or by cellular immunity (T cells) and no symptoms or only mild symptoms develop.
This means that the new coronavirus is probably much more widespread than previously assumed and the lethality per infection is around five times lower than previously estimated. The real lethality could therefore be significantly below 0.1% and thus in the range of influenza.
At the same time, the Swiss study may explain why children usually develop no symptoms (due to frequent contact with previous corona cold viruses), and why even hotspots such as New York City found an antibody prevalence (IgG/IgM) of at most 20% – as this already corresponds to herd immunity.
The Swiss study has in the meantime been confirmed by several more studies:
1. A Swedish study showed that people with mild or asymptomatic disease often neutralised the virus with T cells without the need to produce antibodies. Overall, T cell immunity was about twice as common as antibody immunity.
2. A large Spanish antibody study published in Lancet showed that less than 20% of symptomatic people and about 2% of asymptomatic people had IgG antibodies.
3. A German study (preprint) showed that 81% of the people who had not yet had contact with the new coronavirus already had cross-reactive T cells and thus a certain background immunity (due to contact with previous corona cold viruses).
4. A Chinese study in the Nature showed that in 40% of asymptomatic persons and in 12.9% of symptomatic persons no IgG antibodies are detectable after the recovery phase.
5. Another Chinese study with almost 25,000 clinic employees in Wuhan showed that at most one fifth of the presumably infected employees had IgG antibodies (press article).
6. A small French study (preprint) showed that six of eight infected family members of Covid patients developed a temporary T cell immunity without antibodies.
Video interview: Swedish Doctor: T cell immunity and the truth about COVID-19 in Sweden
In this context, a US study in Science Translational Medicine, using various indicators, concluded that the lethality of COVID-19 was much lower than originally assumed, but that its spread in some hotspots was up to 80 times faster than suspected, which would explain the rapid but short-duration increase in cases in some areas.
Driving Test Misery
A reader has got in touch to tell me about the purgatory her son is in, trying to reschedule his driving test. I confess, I wasn’t aware of this misfortune afflicting young people – yet another to add to the huge number.
Don’t know if you know about the impact Covid is having on driving tests. My son was due to take his practical driving test in April (third time lucky he hopes) but it was cancelled due to Covid. He was given a new date in July but this has also been cancelled. The Government has now announced that practical tests will resume on July 22nd and my son is apparently going to get an email on July 15th inviting him to book a test (no bookings are being taking via the website at the moment). The problem is that his theory test expires in September and despite my pleas to the DVSA and my local MP, the Government has not extended the validity of theory test certificates (though it extended MOTs). So if my son does not get a test before September, he will have to go right to the back of the queue.
That queue is going to be a very long one. Our driving instructor tells me there is currently a backlog of 650,000 people waiting to take their driving tests. So the chances of him passing his test this year are practically zero.
Yet more impact of the lockdown on young people. Especially for those without access to public transport like my son.
Total Number of Covid Deaths in English Hospitals Falls to One
Carl Heneghan, the Professor of Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford, tweeted that there were no Covid deaths reported in hospitals in England on July 10th, but perhaps the data source he was checking hadn’t been updated because the NHS England statistics site is now showing six. But for July 11th, the total was just one. Won’t be long now before we do have a day on which no Covid deaths occur in England’s hospitals. I predict it will happen some time in the next seven days.
Round-Up
And on to the round-up of all the stories I’ve noticed, or which have been been brought to my attention, in the last 24 hours:
- ‘Man plans to sue NHS after cancer surgery delayed due to coronavirus‘ – Article in the Observer about a former senior NHS official who is suing the NHS after his prostate cancer treatment was postponed and he had to have a biopsy and a prostatectomy done privately
- ‘French bus driver attacked over mask rules dies‘ – A French bus driver was attacked by passengers after asking them to wear masks which are compulsory on French public transport. He later died in hospital
- ‘Scots cancer deaths soar as 900 patients die at home during lockdown‘ – Horrifying story in the Daily Record. Expect more headlines like this in the weeks and months to come
- ‘Our fearful leaders are failing to stand up to the radical woke minority‘ – Good piece by Nick Timothy in the Telegraph
- ‘HOT SPOTS: Government lists 20 councils facing worst Covid outbreaks with lockdown fears over Bradford, Sheffield & Kirklees‘ – Alarming piece in the Sun about the areas being lined-up to be the next Leicesters
- ‘What it feels like to be CANCELLED‘ – Excellent round-up of the recently cancelled in the Mail on Sunday
- ‘Families sue Matt Hancock over coronavirus care home deaths‘ – The relatives of several care home residents who died from coronavirus are suing Health Secretary Matt Hancock
- ‘Fifth of vulnerable people considered self-harm in UK lockdown‘ – Guardian documents psychological toll taken by the lockdown on the UK’s most vulnerable
- ‘COVID-19 and Project Fear‘ – Free book to download by GMSeed
- ‘Mr Andrews, tear down this wall‘ – Incendiary piece in the Australian Spectator comparing the state of Victoria to East Germany, given how severe its lockdown restrictions are and the fact that people aren’t allowed in or out of the state
- ‘Government won’t reveal Leicester’s test and trace stats‘ – Interesting piece in the Leicester Mercury. Quelle surprise
- ‘Coronavirus: Could it be burning out after 20% of a population is infected?‘ – Good piece in the Conversation by a Professor of Genetics and a Professor of Epidemiology. This is the piece linked to in the Swiss Doctor’s latest update, but worth flagging again here
- ‘Just 12% of Britons want life to go back to “normal” after coronavirus‘ – Depressing survey result
- ‘BYE STREET: 250,000 High Street jobs could be axed as more Brits shop online during coronavirus crisis‘ – The Sun reports that pre-pandemic online sales accounted for 30 per cent of non-food sales, but that is likely to rise to 40 per cent, which means hundreds of thousands of job losses
- ‘Scientists from the Wuhan virus lab have “defected” to the West, reveals senior Trump ally Steve Bannon – as FBI gathers evidence that coronavirus pandemic was caused by an accidental leak‘ – Huge if true
Small Businesses That Have Re-Opened
A few weeks ago, Lockdown Sceptics launched a searchable directory of open businesses across the UK. The idea is to celebrate those retail and hospitality businesses that have re-opened, as well as help people find out what has opened in their area. But we need your help to build it, so we’ve created a form you can fill out to tell us about those businesses that have opened near you. Now that non-essential shops have re-opened – or most of them, anyway – we’re now focusing on pubs, bars, clubs and restaurants, as well as other social venues. As of July 4th, many of them have re-opened too, but not all. Please visit the page and let us know about those brave folk who are doing their bit to get our country back on its feet – particularly if they’re not insisting on face masks! Don’t worry if your entries don’t show up immediately – we need to approve them once you’ve entered the data.
Note to the Good Folk Below the Line
I enjoy reading all your comments and I’m glad I’ve created a “safe space” for lockdown sceptics to share their frustrations and keep each other’s spirits up. But please don’t copy and paste whole articles from papers that are behind paywalls in the comments. I work for some of those papers and if they don’t charge for premium content they won’t survive.
I know it becomes difficult to navigate the comment threads after 24 hours. One alternative to continuing to post below my updates is to move to the forum on Lockdown Truth. The creator of that site has extended a warm welcome to everyone here.
Shameless Begging Bit
Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the last 48 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. It usually takes me several hours to do these updates, which doesn’t leave much time for other work. If you feel like donating, however small the amount, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in future updates, email me here. I’ll try and get another update done on Tuesday.
And Finally…
My sources in Downing Street tell me the red crayon belongs to Boris, the green one to Dominic Cummings and the blue one to Matt Hancock.
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Toby, your comments on the NBER study about estimation of Covid risk are out by a factor of 10. The data are per 1000. So, for example, people in the 18-34 age group believed they had a 2% chance of dying if they contracted Covid. The report actually states this in the narrative section. It’s still an overestimate, but not as bad as 20%.
Worth saying that the actual current overall risk of death is somewhere around 1.5m to 1 !¬
… and as a follow-up :
The ONS estimation of Covid infections within the community is 1 in 3,900 between 22nd June and 5th July.
A quick and dirty update, using the drop in hospital deaths in the intervening period as a multiplier, suggests that the ration is now approaching 1 in 10000
… and Johnson is suggesting that masks are useful in the face of this naturally and rapidly waning epidemic?
Looks like he’s deeply embedded in the lying fictions that have always been his only stand-out talent.
In this latest interview on Talk Radio P.Hitchens refers to Johnson as Prime Minister as someone nearing ‘Olympian uselessness’ in the role. Something like that anyway. Incidentally it’s the nearest Hitchens (who I like) has come so far to conceding that there is something conspiratorial about this in the way they are still pushing the fear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N31Mza5ZqfU&list=TLPQMTMwNzIwMjA4OW7fsCJE5Q&index=2
Perhaps Johnson has gone mad. There is madness in the family. Possibly the stress of his near death experience tipped home over the edge into this mask mania. He certainly looked deranged in that “blue mask” pic.
Except it sounds like he was nowhere near death. PR stunt? I heard he received private care so all that gushing about the nhs was for the brainwashed clapping masses
A very good opinion piece with some good information from somebody called Stacey Rudin (found on my Twitter feed):
“Superstition in the Pigeon”: Can Lockdowns Really Stop Death?
https://bit.ly/3ei7TuQ
I found this particularly interesting:
Longstanding practical experience demonstrates that no matter what humans do, nature can always find a way — especially viruses. Case in point: in 1969, a group of twelve men overwintered in Antarctica. During the seventeenth week of perfect quarantine in complete isolation, one of them suddenly developed an upper respiratory tract infection described as “a mild to moderately severe cold.” Over the next two weeks, seven more men contracted the infection. This strange case was was studied and the results published in a British medical journal:
How fascinating. I’ve often wondered whether Robinson Crusoe got colds on his island, or just really bad ones when he got back.
Only on a Friday
If I recall, he reports having the “ague” and so losing track of the date. According to the dictionary, that means “malaria or another illness involving fever and shivering”, so maybe it was the flu!
Ha, it was a long time ago I read it!
That is a great article. Toby should feature it in his roundup.
Is that from the David Capital Partners letter linked on the reddit Lockdown Skepticism site? Toby needs to link that whole letter. It’s fantastic reading.
maybe it’s because there are no viruses and it’s your cells cleaning.
Interesting! Shows it’s all about healthy immune systems and not about “germs”.
I’m guessing the men in Antarctica will have lived on storecupboard food. All their meat will have been dried or, more likely, tinned. If they had been able to hunt and eat fresh meat and fish, they would probably have stayed well.
Ships used to carry live animals for the same reason. I suspect there was no room for livestock once ships were filled with slaves (or convicts) and that caused scurvy to become a problem.
Vitamin C! I hear you cry. Fresh meat contains the equivalent of Vitamin C. (Sorry, I can’t remember it’s chemical name.) It isn’t in ascorbate form, so is overlooked when “experts” declare there’s no vit C in meat!
Or it implies that viruses, whatever they are, do not cause the common cold.
Whatever it was it was quite infectious because after one guy got it, most of them did– it just spread like a regular cold. And colds are rare in this situation. So I think we can say that there are still infectious agents causing colds and it’s exceedingly likely that these are viruses.
It’s very interesting though– did they catch it from their dogs? The paper reckons not. Another possibility is that viruses can remain dormant in the body for a long time and then flare up every now and then in order to infect people. Herpes (which causes cold sores) is known to do this. It can hide in neurons and evade your immune system.
Video demonstrating the huge increase of CO2 intake when wearing a mask.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-4ZuGj6Qtk
Of course it wouldn’t, try and stay rational.
How about you away and fuck yourself?
Nice
Well, you could go fuck yourself but I reckon your peen is too short.
Shame.
GFY
wanker
Do you think that this sort of language is going to enhance the reputation of those of us who oppose the lockdown?
is this sort of response going to be helpful in getting lockdown rescinded?
I appreciate that you are frustrated as we all are, but I could see nothing wrong with the comment by Jon G.
if you disagree with him then set out why.
Are you really thinking that these people listen to reason? Reason left the UK in March. I use this as a release valve…….
I wasn’t replying to you. Of course it wouldn’t void your insurance was my point.
What snark? If you look at the comment it says ‘Reply to…’
kh1485. Are you hung over ?
Oh yeah, sorry, my mistake. But on the original point – of course your insurance wouldn’t be void, can you imagine a claim not being paid because the driver was wearing a face mask? Seriously?
I absolutely can… I can imagine insurance companies going down every avenue possible to avoid paying out if they can 😉
Insurance companies don’t want to pay out claims. They want to deny claims, and they look for any reason possible, mostly following “guidelines” such as the one mentioned above.
They’d also have to deny all claims for wearing a motorcycle helmet then, or to anyone who has a cold, hayfever, etc as they all reduce the amount of oxygen you take in from normal capacity.
You’re changing the parameters of the argument which has to do with clothing obstructing driving ability.
Pretty certain helmets are required by law.
This conversation is about restricted breathing whilst driving/riding, nothing to do with the law.
Because, err, you say so. Hmm.
Having worked in the insurance industry, yes.
Will you guarantee that with your cash?
My dad’s insurance company refused to pay out because his prescription sunglasses were not as up-to-date, prescription wise, as his regular specs. They were a quarter out on one lens but that was deemed irresponsible and therefore he was at fault. No money.
How many of us are 100% sure that our specs, tested & bought 6 months ago, are 100% correct in their prescription?
Yes. Insurance companies can and will use this.
Also, just for the record, I agree that wearing a mask to drive is ridiculous.
The comments on this topic are getting a little heated, but I think that Rule 97 of the Highway Code might be relevant here: ‘Before setting off you should ensure that clothing and footwear do not prevent you using the controls in the correct manner’.
Good point Dj Dod – the mask being a control..
You’re either a 77 brigade joker or a sheeple to proffer such a banal comment. Guess you have limited experience of making an insurance claim.
Don’t be so stupid.
I think you are probably right about this.
Biker is too nice, fuck off and die Jon G 😁
I wouldn’t be surprised if wearing a mask while driving invalidated insurance, since the risk of hypoxia is well known.
Regular readers of this site will no doubt remember this story:
https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/driver-crashes-car-after-passing-out-from-wearing-n95-mask/
https://pittsburgh.legalexaminer.com/transportation/cdc-drivers-should-not-wear-masks-while-driving/
28th April CDC no driving with mask please.
In a 2016 study on healthcare workers wearing masks, the scientists noted that even high-quality respirators can interfere with respiration, vision, thermal equilibrium, and feelings of well being.
I take it you’ve never worn a motorcycle helmet?
I don’t know whether DJ Dod has, but I have; every day for work before I retired and I’ve been on long motorbiking trips through Europe. It’s nonsense to say that a helmet compares to a mask. There’s about a 2″ gap between my mouth and the front of the helmet and the helmet doesn’t cover my nose. So it doesn’t impede, at all, oxygen coming in or carbon dioxide going out. Unlike a mask.
You do know that lots of tradesmen work in dust masks all day and have done for years. Never heard them complaining.
If you don’t want to wear a mask just say so and don’t wear, we don’t need to be justifying not wearing one with all this bullsh*t.
Dust masks stop dust, not air/oxygen.
As it happens, I have. I have also recently been obliged to wear a face mask on a flight, which left me feeling light-headed and nauseous – not something I have ever experienced with a motorcycle helmet.
Still, “We are not trying to cause public alarm or suggest wearing an N95 mask is unsafe,” the department added.
Also current NHS policy for ambulance crew is no PPE allowed in the cab whilst driving.
The number of people i saw wearing face masks whilst on their own in theirs cars on Saturday was ridiculous. Do they think they are going to catch it off the upholstery in the car? Stupid people!
An actual way that a mask is dangerous when driving is if you wear glasses, as you breath comes out the top of the mask and steams your glasses up.
Youtube video is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gnwgZli1_Y
What’s worse is seeing student drivers and instructors wearing masks. I would have thought that would have a been a double whammy in terms of accidents.
Yes. I thought that when they re-emerged last week. One passed me and the instructor was wearing a mask plus a visor! I wanted to leap out, stop them and explain about the hypoxia problem.
The instructor has to read the road for a new driver and be several stages of anticipation ahead. If he’s getting drowsy and there’s an accident, the instructor will be fully responsible.
I don’t suppose the guidelines they’re being forced to follow will take that into account. It will be ok if the learner drives through a bus queue, just as long as no-one gets covid.
Really the same could be said for wearing a motorcycle helmet, it’s more difficult for me to breath with a helmet on than a mask.
I wear a motorcycle helmet often, and have done all day as an ex despatch rider. I have not had any of the breathing difficulties or steaming up. You might need to try a diffrerent type of helmet, or perhaps even an open face one.
Not strictly true.
Masks without exhale valves cause a proportion of what is exhaled to be reinhaled
If O2 is approx 19.8% when inhaled in fresh air, when wearing a mask, this has been measured to drip to around 16.5 %.
This is still adequate for consciousness, but is legally classified as an oxygen deficient atmosphere and increases the risk of hypoxia.
Surgeons have had SpO2 levels monitored over period of wearing masks and found blood oxygen dropped from 98% to around 90%.
Your helmet may obstruct your breathing depending on if it is full face & how close fitting it is to your mouth, but will not obstruct air flow to the same extent as a mask
You ever worn a motorcycle helmet?
Yes frequently, also worn various forms of PPE, mask face fit testing, trained in rescue from oxygen deficient environments various courses in BA maintenance and am an authorised gas tester as well – next question.
My best answer of the day. Cheered me up no end!
Wow!! Looks like even face shields aren’t that any better after all.
See above for the ‘new normal’.
Coronafritters is my name for the terminally fearful lockdown adherents; known up here in Sturgeon land as deep fried coronafritters.
Alternative name : Covoids.
Another sleepless night; still fuming about the masks in shops diktat.
Have you tried audiobooks, Wendyk, or music? Put the sound on low and instead of trying to sleep, concentrate on the sound. At worst, you will hear something pleasing and interesting, At best, you will drop off within five minutes. I almost always do, as I can tell from the last thing I remember hearing when I wake up!
You’re quite right Annie; I’ve got a large audio book collection and shall start tonight.
Thank you
Podcasts are useful as well. If it’s something you actually wanted to listen to you can always listen again.
Read “Instructional Techniques and Practices”. Lights out pronto – guaranteed!
Or Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Gibbons…never got to page 2 yet 😉
You need a sizeable bosum to prop it up on! (Kindle is recommended.)
I listen to podcasts from Delingpod, Spiked, TRIGGERnometry, London Calling and occasionally World Science Festival to put me to sleep.
Hasn’t arrived yet kh; I hope within the next couple of days.
This place is succumbing to Covoid -panic-syndrome.
Give it up WendyK, don’t worry about not wearing a mask. Just go about your day and don’t think about it anymore. Lie to the pigs if they hassle you but at the end of the day a bad law should be ignored and this is a bad law and first and foremost you’re right to do exactly what the fuck you want is more important than anything else. Sturgeon and her goons are Nazi’s pure and simple. Remember it took the Germans about 30 years after the war to admit to themselves they were all nazi’s so the cunts who support Sturgeon have a long way to go before they realise how utterly disgusting they were.
Thank you Biker, for the encouragement. It’s just that I find this illogical nonsense being foisted on us to be so utterly unnecessary ,divisive and just plain bloody stupid: it gets me down.
When I’ve improved my mood I shall take your advice and hit the streets!
The Stupid Numpty Followers are so brain washed that I fear they might never admit to any wrong doings; they’re a cult in all but name.
Meanwhile the Deep Fried Coronafritters are mindlessly waiting for the Dear Leader to issue her next instructions.
Update: I’ve just been out;so depressing! Masks- worn in the open, fresh air!!!- and in most shops.
Masks predominating now-about 60% wearing them.
Went to Savers, not challenged; young woman behind tall perspex barrier swathed in a tight pink gag,which looked to be made of polyester or similar.
I asked how she felt: uncomfortable, hot, and would be obliged to keep it in place until 6pm when she finishes work.
Would she get a break? Yes, but she’d wear it outside!!
As I left a woman swathed in a black one stared at me, so I stared back.
This is entirely irrational; why are all these people obstructing their breathing in the open air? What is the point?
Next,queue outside the one remaining bank: 2 masked; 2 without.
Finally, walked past optician which I normally use: bossy notice :’Emergencies only; face masks must be worn’.
I won’t be going there again.
This is truly awful; I feel so frustrated at this unquestioning herd behaviour.
And what about that reply to your perfectly legitimate query about car insurance?
There’s a very poor atmosphere here now; suspicion spreading.
I now count the smiles: 3 today, all from bare faced women.
AFAIK if you wear a .ask while operating machinery/ driving, you are driving while impaired.
Sp02 levels drop while wearing a mask and mask rebreathed O2 level is around 16.5% which according to HSE is an oxygen deficient atmosphere and you are jot legally allowed to work in low oxygen environments.
So yes, sooner or later an insurance company will argue that a mask wearer was driving wile impaired and is liable.
Simple thing to allege in a collision, the other driver was wearing a mask.
Really wearing a mask while driving should be treated like using a mobile.
I know we’ve had a number of people join us this last week.
Does anyone remember DaveyP posting here before today?
If they keep this up all winter, with the usual colds and flu around, they’ll be very short of customers!
Bad attitudes are spreading, more’s the pity.
So clueless – Having a raised temperature does not mean you have COVID. That customer will not return!
He might do well to add a postscript.
PS We are making a loss and if this goes on we’re out of business. JobCentre Plus here I come.
Coronafritters….. that makes me hungry. Mmmmm…. fritters.
Best deep fried TyLean;at least in the Dear Leader’s fiefdom….
Great term coronafritters, will try to use that.
I gather from the Daily Record piece that Scots with heart disease or cancer, which is quite likely to kill them, still don’t want to go into hospital, for fear of getting Covid.
If true, this shows that
What a despondent place this now is.
Thank you so much, Dear Leader.
No clapping here yesterday,thankfully.
Hate to disappoint you Wendy, but the clap for the Dear Leader is next Sunday, the 19th at 8pm. Have your sick bag ready.
O no! Thanks for letting me know Gillian
I have posted something somewhere thinking it was yesterday to Wendyk! I onky thought about it this morning. I share you disappointment with the news Gillian brings!
i wouldn’t clap for that Sturgeon if you had a gun at my head. In my entire 50 years, outside of Mrs Thatcher i can’t think of a single politician worth a damn. We have been badly served by horrible bastards who’ve sold out to the cabal and have been slowly destroying the west to the point that the vast majority of the people are so braindead they don’t know anything. Ive asked plenty SNP supporters to name one of their polices apart from independence and so far not one of them has been able to. This is how far we are from safety and rationality. There is no objectivity any more, no individualism and we are now at the mercy of a bunch of Nazi/commies who want what you’ve worked for and want to dictate every single thing you do, for your own good. I despise people who help others.
You’ve probably seen already.
Oh!
Couldn’t you join in but with very loud boos instead of clapping? You never know – it could start something
This is right out of ‘1984’. Wow!
I feel increasingly hopeful that the ‘old normal’ is on its way back. It’s not going to be as quick as any of us would like, but it is happening. A few glimmers:
-My local Tesco is one of the company’s ‘flagship’ UK stores. They’ve now got rid of their one-way system and queue. You can freely shop again, just like the old days. This is a small thing, but a big sign that the shackles are starting to come off. (I had a real spring in my step yesterday when I discovered that I could just shop like a normal human being again.)
-All my local playgrounds are now open, except one, but everybody just hops over the fence and uses it anyway. Social distancing for children has disappeared, it seems, and sanity is returning.
-Playgroups and ballet classes that my daughter used to attend are all re-opening over the next month or 6 weeks.
-A friend is the deputy head of a big urban primary school and she says in September the kids will be back in basically as normal, but possibly with slightly staggered start/finish times and lunch hours.
-Pubs. Need I say more?
I hope you are right, but despite Gove’s placation on TV yesterday, muzzles could be on the way for shopping. That is a retrograde step.
Sounds hopeful. Good to hear the glimmer.
Coverings are a giant step away from normal. It’s hard to describe how unpleasant the atmosphere is with that single step.
Should it come, then hopefully many waverers will have their minds made up for them – in the right direction of course ! 🙂
It deletes faces. Without faces we are not human.
Do you remember one of the last sequences in Attenborough’s Life on Earth? It stressed, with suitable illustration, the importance of ‘the infinite variety of our faces’.
Don’t be dehumanised.
Don’t get me wrong, I dislike the idea, and I despise the government for foisting it on us (as I daresay they will). But I lived in Japan for nearly a decade. Face masks are not unusual there even in normal times, and people get on perfectly fine. It’s important not to exaggerate the negative effects of them.
Possibly, but I can’t help feeling that the death rattle demographics of that and neighbouring countries, such as South Korea, may not be unconnected.
Assoon as he said they won’t be mandatory I knew Boris would make them mandatory.
Not greatly looking forward to my shopping trip tomorrow, so far less than a single figure percentage of the population here have been masked, I’ve seen three or four total around town in a day.
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-death-data-in-england-daily-update/
what a fine time to introduce face nappies eh?
That’s positive! So glad to hear it.
The Bernician is an anti-vax, 5G-is-killing-us, Covid-19-is-a-hoax conspiracy theory organisation.
I don’t think there’s any need to link to anything from such demonstrably untrustworthy sources; it risks undoing much of your good work.
The truth, as you’ve repeatedly shown, is out there – but putting in the hard yards in terms of data and reliable sources is the path you should stay on.
I thought much the same.
The Surrey NHS consultant writes the following, here below. Surely this could be checked by an investigative journalist.
It’s complete baloney. Why on earth would you whistleblow to a blog, that virtually no one reads, and would never be taken seriously? If you’re going to come out and whistleblow it would be absolutely pointless doing it this way as it has zero effect.
You might as well just go to any Wetherspoons and tell your story to a landlord and it would get more coverage.
A total load of b*llocks!
Carry on DaveyP. Just adds to the evidence that you’re a troll.
It’s about free speech, Jon. And trusting people to make up their own minds.
Remember those days ? 🙂
PS It’s kh1485 you might want to apologise to, for suggesting insurance companies always try to do the right thing, not me
Don’t be so hard on Mr. Young, many newspapers and news outlet print articles from suspect sources, sometimes deliberately.
A pertinent part of the consultant’s full article is:
“ I know that if a way could be found to assure staff within the NHS of safety against reprisals, there would be a tsunami of whistleblowers which I have no doubt would help end this complete and brutal insanity.“
Sounds like there needs to be some kind of Wikileaks style reporting system for NHS workers.
For what it’s worth, this is from the section on whistleblowing gov.uk:
https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing
Who is protected by law
You’re protected if you’re a worker, for example you’re:
an employee, such as a police officer, NHS employee, office worker, factory worker
a trainee, such as a student nurse
an agency worker
a member of a Limited Liability Partnership (LLP)
Get independent advice if you’re not sure you’re protected, for example from Citizens’ Advice.
A confidentiality clause or ‘gagging clause’ in a settlement agreement is not valid if you’re a whistleblower.
Another excellent piece, thank you Toby. I am very impressed with the Swiss medical researcher’s site which has lots of evidence to use.
Very relieved that face masks are not going to be mandatory but worried that Boris made this suggestion. What next?!
Great post. Cheered me up on this grey, depressing day in Scotland. Hope all inmates of Stalag Sturgeon are well this morning and ready to take the mask fight on.
The muzzle fight continues – though I do fear it’s a losing battle.
Negativity spreader ! 🙂
The Surrey NHS consultant writes the following, here below. Surely this could be checked by an investigative journalist.
I heard about this happening, right at the start of the lockdown. Wish I could remember who told me … but I’ve been aware that this was a rumoured scenario three months ago.
Are there *really* ambulances driving around Surrey with blue lights flashing just to give a false impession? Surely this would need the involvement of at least a) ambulance trust management, b) call centre staff, c) ambulance crews.
Hard to believe!
The call centre staff wouldn’t have to know (not if there’s nothing to call the ambulances to). I do find it hard to believe that this could be done on any kind of scale without a single ambulance crew member letting it slip, though.
So find someone to check all the records. Every phone call made today is being monitored and filed away somewhere.
Perhaps a fighting fund to cover the salary of the NHS whistleblowers? I don’t have much, I’ve not been furloughed, I’ve lost my jobs, but I’d give what I can. If we can just hear the truth from the ‘frontline’ unfiltered by political bias it just might get through?
The Coronalympics Gold for Rank Stupidity this week must surely go to the government and public health panjandrums responsible for this little gem: “Government guidance states that services including face waxing, eyebrow threading, eyelash treatments, make-up applications and facials should not be provided because of the greater risk of Covid-19 transmission. Beard trims have been allowed since barbers opened last weekend – but should be limited to simple tidy-ups or thinning which can be carried out from the side or by circling the client to avoid the highest risk zone in front of the face.” Anybody who still believes that this government is serious about rebuilding the economy needs to take a gargantuan reality check. By suffocating millions of self-employed business owners and their workers with this litany of frankly unworkable red tape, they are effectively signing a “do not resuscitate” order on behalf of these companies – they will simply suffer a painful, drawn out demise in the current climate of Covid madness. I’ll finish with a quote from the CEO of the UK’s largest tanning business: “More than 90% of our staff are women, and most in the 18 to 25-year-old age group, which is the demographic which… Read more »
Shocking! This Government obviously believe that women should be at home and in the kitchen and are doing their best to push women down. Well done Boris & Team.
The main takeaway message is that masks clearly don’t work to prevent viral spread, or there would be no problem for beauticians to do facials etc.
A great idea from Peter Hitchens, allow individuals and businesses to state that they are relaxed. People can then choose where they frequent and how they travel:
https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2020/07/peter-hitchens.html
I’m joining the relaxed group along with every other contributor on Lockdown Sceptics I would imagine.
Absolutely. Good to see some familiar names in the comments too.
We should have ‘ Hitchie Says Relax’ T-shirt’s made!
A couple if zombies in comments (very much in minority) accuse him of selfishness.
He wants to live his way, allowing them to live theirs.
They want to force him and everybody to live their way.
So who’s selfish?
Jeez, have we sunk that low and desperate to be basing the latest news on a blog from the Bernician?
Why would a whistleblower go directly to the Bernician when there are far more reputable sites outside the MSM where his claims would be taken more seriously?
Why not come directly to Lockdown Sceptics for example?
Even the Bernician doesn’t believe the rubbish that the Bernician writes!
I am not sure it was sent directly to the Bernican as I saw it on many sources. They have published it sure and that they may do more harm than good as you say.
The Bernician still push that “Freeman of the Land” crap, that’s how deluded they are!
The story originally came from David Icke’s site, a well known purveyor of truth, FFS!
There must be some deluded people on here if I’m being down voted for questioning David Icke’s ability to tell the truth.
It wasn’t me. Icke has some pretty extreme views and has to be taken with a whole cellar let alone a pinch. He does come up with some useful content from time to time though.
I agree, if it cannot be verified then we should steer clear of such pieces regardless of how much truth some of us may think it holds.
I don’t understand how blogs operate but it is the traditional journalists job to verify what is published. This Surrey consultant account arrived in two posts in these comments a few days ago. With the commentator suggesting they had been sent to them by someone they knew. The commentator asked for email to Toby.
Commenters at the time felt it was right to question the source, annonymous is always questionable. Toby has verified earlier professional accounts before posting.
Commenters stated their opinion that NHS workers need to stand up for what is right and no longer can stay silent. We need NHS staff to speak about what they have seen happening. I was and remain one with those opinions.
This Surrey doctor account no longer stands in my opinion. Without verification to a creditable trusted person it holds as much weight as my own comments. Will the Surrey Consultant step forward to be verified?
This has markings of a simple technique to discredit genuine people with real thoughtful concerns. Very sad times.
If you’re going to whistleblow, you aren’t going to go to either Icke or the Bernician. That would kill your career quicker than the actual whistleblowing.
I very much doubt that Toby would ever use a story from Icke in the Spectator or Telegraph.
If GrantM gets accused of 77th Brigade then it is more than reasonable to question this episode in light of 77th Brigade’s known objectives.
I think its worthwhile reflecting and being alert.
It clearly could all have been badly handled but genuine too.
Yes, I agree. I find it believable but questionable, and – ultimately – the person needs to put skin on the line if it’s real.
Why does the NHS gag its staff? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear surely?
Meanwhile under the Dictatorship in Wales. Yes, I know you are not interested, but it is a useful glimpse of how thing could be under Kia Starmer
Pubs are due to open ‘outside’ today. Over 50% have refused. Knowing that Dripfords Stasi will be quickly dispatched to close them down again they’ve gone Refusenik
Two days ago the Leader planted a sob story in the press about how difficult things had been for him. He also managed to drop in that he had not been home for the duration of the lockdown
He announced he had ‘spent time with other people’ (titter ye not)
As the Welsh Government has no official accommodation for him: where was he exactly when he was confining everyone else to their homes?
Meanwhile on the weekend thousands gathered near the ‘parliament’ to protest, drink and confront the police
Revolution is in the air
Now that Wales has graciously allowed visitors from England to return, I hope to find out for myself this coming weekend. We may stay in our static caravan (from which we have been banned up to now) for up to a week if conditions are conducive (ie the pubs are open); however if it’s too depressing out and about, we’ll probably head back over the bridge rather sooner.
The new Oxford undergrad will learn a great deal about human nature this year including seeing all the CYA behaviour as reality finally dawns. I believe that will outweigh the disadvantages. A tale for the grandchildren anyway.
Depressing because a large part of the Oxford experience ™ is about the small group interaction, societies, etc quite apart from tutorials and lectures.
I would not be surprised if after a little careful sounding out, some tutors and students quietly agree to drop the masks while in private. It will be a little like the underground in Soviet Russia, but let’s hope there aren’t any KGB equivalents around.
That’s the immediate future for us all, maybe: sanity speakeasies!
Welcome to the New World Order.
I used to think that Oxford dondps were intelligent.
How can you be, at one and the same time, so ( presumably) intelligent and so utterly, incredibly, demonstrably stupid?
Don’t worry about capacity limits in university libraries. They’ll have burned half the books by then.
The whole thing is a lie and it’s being used to destroy nation states and turn us into the new world order. There is absolutely no doubt about this whatsoever. That cow Sturgeon says masks are here for the foreseeable future. She is being paid by the dark forces and the utter wankers that follower her are walking into the gas chambers thinking they are going for a shower. I’m telling you folk like Boris and Sturgeon are members of the secret cabal. We live in very dark times where they want to crush humanity. Every time you wear the mask you give up. Stand up to these fuckers. If in the future you need to fight then fight because they’re not going away and they have your death and the enslavement of the survivors as their goals. This is nothing less than the end of the world. The fact the NHS is lying just proves how you don’t matter and how doctors are always the ones who cause mass death to their populations. These people play for real and think nothing of letting you die.
Caught the train to a midland market town yesterday and visited a beer garden. It was much more positive than recent Orwellian city centre experiences. On the train we have clearly hit the level where enough people have defied wearing muzzles for many of the sheep to follow. Vast majority had either no muzzle or hung it around their necks. It turns out that the sheep will follow even a small number of rebellious leaders. We need to keep this up even if the “government” enforce more strongly. I’ll take fines if necessary, although I expect my printed exemption card will avoid this. The guard walked the train possibly counting dissenters, but said nothing. One family had muzzled kids (but not the parents?) who took a social media selfy and then immediately unmuzzled for the rest of the journey. Our local city centre pubs and restaurants have been wrecked by the coronovirus guidelines, but it was good to see that in the small towns some businesses have done the minimum amount possible. The pub we went to has a densely seated garden with three adjacent areas of tables. They had simply taped off the middle section of tables. This did… Read more »
You are right about people wanting an excuse not to wear the masks. I had a hospital appointment recently and ended up sitting next to two other patients for several hours (and when I say sitting, I mean literally elbow to elbow – due to lack of seating in the corridor we were in – hospital staff wandered by with no regard for the fact none of us was antisocial distancing). One was a an older gent, 80 years old, whose cancer treatment had been delayed by the Lockdown. He started off the conversation wearing a mask, but all I had to do was tell him he didn’t need to wear one, and off it went for the rest of the conversation. What was funny was that every time he used the words ‘touch wood’, he’d tap the side of my head. I don’t think the Corona propaganda had got to him somehow. The guy on my left was much younger, in his late twenties I think. He had a big beard with his mask perched on it ineffectively. Again, I just simply said he didn’t to wear one, and off it came. I didn’t have to give either of… Read more »
Here in SW France, our GP told SWMBO not to bother wearing a muzzle at her latest appointment, although he was masked.
Similar situation at the local path lab when she went for a blood test. Staff were muzzled but told SWMBO it wasn’t necessary to wear one.
Thank you Alec. I value details like this. Thanks for posting.
These heartening comments largely mirror my direct experience – although 2/3 weeks ago, mask wearing was encouraged in hospital, even though staff spoke about the unpleasantness of the experience of being muzzled all day.
The most ridiculous example was in chatting to a patient with COPD who was wearing a mask!
But I sense things are changing.
I’ve just been to the dentist with an emergency broken tooth. New arrival protocol requires hand sanitiser, mask and temp check. The receptionist who handed me my mask was wearing one but not covering her nose. Nobody seemed t have noticed or be bothered.
As I was needing the treatment, I complied. But of course once you’re in the chair, the mask comes off and it’s pretty much as normal. I give it 3 months before they stop bothering; less if they get a plausible reason.
I have an appointment in a month, I’ll either be waiting outside, or walk through with my motorbike helmet on.
I had to go for an x-ray a couple of weeks ago. We had to pick up a mask on the way into the hospital – not optional.
Ridiculously, as I was waiting to be seen, the aircon blew down into my mask which did keep it bearable but obviously would have blown any virus all over the place.
I was only at the hospital for about 20 minutes in total but noticed as I drove home that my face felt unnaturally hot. Suspect I have a mask allergy!
I spent a few days in hospital recently. Masks were dispensed in the main foyer. No visitors were allowed.
On the wards the staff complied and seemed to wear masks most of the time, but none of the patients did. They either wore them like chin hammocks or like me dispensed with them altogether.
A few staff expressed their scepticism about masks to me privately or said they felt like an encumberence. One or two thought them unnecessary and said so… but trust rules are trust rules.
You’ve hit it. Sheeple will follow a lead. Let’s give them one! I’m sure very few of the really want to be as miserable as the Evil Mob are trying to make them.
Corollary: don’t be miserable. Be cheerful, the evil mob hate it!
Great extension to the chat yesterday evening SF. The realisation can’t come soon enough, although I fear it may be some months. As has been posted on this forum frequently, it’s mostly younger folk who seem to have embraced mask wearing and threatened granny with instant death if she didn’t stay behind closed doors. I’ve noticed that these are the folk who lack basic knowledge of how the body works, i.e. using oxygen, exhaling carbon dioxide. Actually now I think of it, that ignorance is spread across the generations.
I’m bored of agreeing with everything Steven Farmer says but he is most usually so darn right! Great post again, I think you’ve got a great point, once the drudgery kicks in and mumurs from the alphas begin… we are sorted!
Mail recently reported a third of people don’t even know what the symptoms of Covid are.
Terrified by utter ignorance.
“Young people over-estimate covid risk.” Day after day TV news and the papers have pumped out context-free death figures: no historical comparisons, no comparisons with other epidemics, no comparisons with other kinds of flu, no comparisons between age groups, weeks old fatality figures mixed in with the current day’s. The only people who have a clear picture are those who actually go looking for the facts.
I can’t believe that the government, with all the expertise and means at its disposal, lost this information war. One suspects it never meant to win?
The SAGE sub-committee of behavioural scientists advised the government to use fear to ensure compliance with its lockdown measures. There is no need to suspect; it is a matter of public record.
But in their extreme wisdom never seem to have considered how to reverse the process later on.
They are publicly admitting that, as they struggle to get offices populated again. I think they’re just realising that footfall is the lifeblood of town centres – after showing us that working from home is possible and much cheaper.
Things are pretty bad over here in the sidewalk Nazi department.
Check this out, also the comments:
https://www.mvtimes.com/2020/07/10/downtown-edgartown-b-o-h-mask-order/?unapproved=21939&moderation-hash=406598daf191d505b39c7197551d7f7a#comment-21939
Cases of child malnutrition in England double in last six months
https://bit.ly/32cVvty
Almost 2,500 children have been admitted to hospital with malnutrition in the first six months of the year – double the number over the same period last year – prompting fresh concern that families are struggling to afford to feed themselves and that the pandemic has intensified the problem.
The dramatic increase this year is unsurprising. The number of households with children going hungry doubled during lockdown, as millions of people struggle to afford food.
Malnutrition in children is heartbreaking, but is more likely to be a result of a constant diet of pizza and sweeties, not affordability.
I’m always surprised by the number of children I see having breakfast at nursery when I drop my daughter off. I would say about half the children are being fed from what I’ve see.
You may well be right that parents are feeding their kids junk but the closure of schools is almost certainly exacerbating the problem. Affordability is and will become more of an issue as income drops due to everything that’s happened.
That’s very high handed. Many people are struggling on tight budgets.
The more affluent working from home are juggling increased workload, including conference calls, home schooling and also cooking nutritious meals.
Then it is the lockdown to blame, rather than the virus?
That’s going to be an even bigger problem as more and more people lose their jobs.
Right. Sorry. Sturgeon Clap. No one gives a care anyway, I know. But. Have just remembered it was a thing to happen yesterday. Not a thing heard near me. So I’ve asked around, seems I’m the only one to remember it was a thing – no one heard anything. It’s important to keep track of this stuff.
Thumbs up.
Thumbs down me though… it is next week. I thought it last night. But no. Still to come. Apologies I couldn’t find the post to delete after Realising my error.
Yes, next week – on July 19th which is her birthday. Creepy.
Creepy indeed. Should our Scots friends just ignore the pantomime? Or counteract with a resounding ‘Bronx Cheer’?
(Who me, officer?)
Creepy indeed. Very Kim Jong-Un. I’ll reserve my clapping for when I see the tumbrils rolling the rogues at Holyrood (&Westminster) to the scaffold.
It’s next week, but as I didn’t do the creepy clap for the NHS, I’m certainly not starting for Wee Jimmie on her birthday. Presume there will be enough SNP Arschleckers that will make it worthwhile for the supine Scottish MSM to report a glowing success in the People’s Republic of Scotland.
UK test numbers overstated by 2 million.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08kdnbp
Link takes me to “Sweden’s lockdown lite”
Have they removed or moved the story?
No. Thats is to listen to. The bbc figures out the gov overstated tests by 2 million. In first 5 mins of 15 min radio prog. Its interesting.
Hidden away in a new article about Krankie Wee tackling ‘English’ daring to transport c19 into Scotland is a tiny bit about Scottish Care home deaths. The astute will notice the mechanisms of SNP at work. They go like this, yes Sotland care homes have been a disaster, we did put c19 into homes killing many, but The English did it more, worse and betterer.
From the guardian:
“The Scottish government has been criticised for its policy early in the pandemic of discharging hospital patients into care homes without being tested for coronavirus. Almost half (46%) of Covid-19 deaths in Scotland have been connected to care homes, according to the National Records of Scotland.
“Asked about her government’s record, Sturgeon said she regretted and apologised for every death from Covid-19. But she added: “What I absolutely refute is that there was some particular problem in Scotland or that we didn’t take great care.”
“She said excess deaths in care homes were lower in Scotland than in England, with Scotland attributing more of them to coronavirus.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/12/no-immediate-plan-to-quarantine-english-visitors-says-sturgeon
Note the use of the word ‘particular’
Note the misuse of ‘refute’
You guys are good! Alec and D barton.
Both examples speak to the mindset we all recognise. I think sturgeon has something worrying her in the back of her mind. She is againg rapidly.
Yes, she looked awful yesterday on the news, but serves her right for not delegating the task to anyone else. The Wuflu response in Scotland rests squarely on her shoulders on no-one else’s.
I hope her bloody mask gives her hypoxia and every other pox that is available.
Remember all the headlines about how Sweden got it wrong when they admitted they should have done better with care homes?
But Scotland got it right because…well I don’t know why it’s different for Scotland. Maybe they could justify it by saying we saved thousands of lives so that offsets the care home deaths. Not sure if that would hold up in court though.
For anyone labouring under the delusion that Scotland got it spectacularly right, the following article on Scandanavian comparisons is a tin lid :
http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/nordic_comparison_4jul.html
Of course – what has become increasingly obvious (much as one would like to pin sins of commission on government) – broadly speaking, government measures were largely irrelevant to the progress of the virus overall. The sins have actually been those concerned with the issue here – the use of a virus as a smokescreen for social experimentation.
Note the way she turns it to figure where Scotland is lower. It is always independence with her – always.
Meanwhile, over at the Telegraph, Mr Hancock is struggling to justify himself:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/12/acting-collectively-test-trace-will-keep-covid-cornered/
Top comment so far:
So many diseases need more money for research and you’ve spent billions on this madness, this pathetic virus, while people with other illnesses are still being ignored by the NHS.I feel nothing but loathing for you and your mates Hancock.
Second most popular:
Mr Hancock, the figures are now in. This bug has a mortality rate of 0.05%. Do you understand that? Why aren’t we locking down for flu every year? Can you not see the inconsistency?
Third most popular:
Pillock. You should be locked up for countless violations of our civil liberties over nothing, you nasty little jumped up dictator.
After this, the comments start to get really personal!
His biggest problem is that he doesn’t know he’s a tosser
Reminds me of a Whitbread advert playing in the North East in the 1980s, with a bus-load of very drunk ‘Southerners’ heading home after a day out ‘up North’. Voice-over from the Likely Lad’s James Bolam, ‘there are those that know, and those that don’t know …. and those that don’t know they don’t know’.
Could somebody kindly tell him, then?
This is a good comment
Hancock – I really cannot express what I think of you as a politician or as a person because the most accurate and appropriate vocabulary would not pass the moderators
There are people who have a lack of empathy so absolute that they carry out acts of breathtaking cruelty against their fellow humans and I would include you in that group.
The evidence for this is the on going suffering of thousands and thousands of people with untreated and undiagnosed cancer heart disease and so many other painful and life threatening conditions and all because you denied them access to healthcare.
I believe you to be a liar and you have used the lie of this virus to imprison the people of this country and to destroy their livelihood,freedoms and happiness.
One day soon you will face a reckoning and I and many others will have our revenge.
HandonCock never grew up from being the primary school milk monitor, a position he always held as his primary step to grateness (yes) and is in dire need of a smack upside his dunderhead
Wonderful comment , one which I wholeheartedly endorse .
Excellent comment and indeed he will have his reckoning especially as he now has the blood of millions on his hands.
I’m loving this thread! Since I absolutely do NOT love Hancock…
The Surrey hospital Consultants’s comments are explosive, if correct. I’ve earned my Lockdown Sceptic badge (ask my family!) so this is not a troll response. But if one Consultant is threatened, then they all are. I see why lower skilled workers would feel intimidated against speaking out but can it really be that a body of highly articulate professionals with significant collective clout would allow themselves to be silenced as suggested? And empty blue light ambulances being utilised solely to instil fear in the local population? I’m normally enthusiastic about sharing Toby’s great efforts but am worried that we open ourselves up to ridicule with incendiary but completely unsubstantiated claims such as these examples.
They are b*llshit, originally came from David Icke’s site, then another purveyor of the truth, The Bernician, published them.
Can’t believe Toby would publish this sh*t!!!!!!
Here’s the original: https://davidicke.com/2020/07/11/nhs-consultant-on-the-truth-behind-the-covid-pandemic/
The thing I liked about this site is that we used reason and evidence to back up our anti-lockdown stance, but if this kind of horse sh*t is going to start be used then I’m out of here.
Same here, there’s a real risk of undermining all the previous hard work.
I’ve just seen one of my comments being down voted as I questioned Icke’s ability to tell the truth. If that’s the way this site is going, and this is the type of person we are attracting, then sadly it’s bye bye from me!
Like any site, there are a mixture of readers. Some from the left, middle, right and some who wouldn’t fit into any of those brackets as their views are rather ‘extreme’ (for want of a less inflammatory word). This site of course has few rather aggressive types on it, it certainly has people who flippantly make comments about doing away with those they don’t like, and there’s without doubt overly aggressive posters in the comments.
I’d not let it put you off the scepticism but the comments section can be a bit of a worrying place sometimes, that said it has defo lead me to some great content and many on here are very thoughtful and considered in what they post and can help ones mental state during this nonsense.
Yeah any site has a proportion of nutters below the line, the point is: the blatantly false whistle blower story was what Toby led with today! That’s just shoddy, and risks making the whole bloody site look like a joke.
And a proportion of 77-ers too.
Please to itemise the blatantly false bits.
The comments are the least of my worries.
We’ve positioned ourselves on here so that we are following the evidences and not the lies and emotions.
Toby using an article from Icke is though. If I’m going to believe this I might as well just go back to reading the papers and believing everything the MSM tell me.
Surely Toby and his minions should’ve done a quick Google search, like I did, before publishing this which would’ve shown them it was from Icke?
“Evidences” ? I’d prefer we positioned ourselves on correct English, but there you go …
Oh no. Gutted.
I agree Davey. We do not want to be associated with the David Ickes of the world. There are plenty of reasoned and substantiated materials. We don’t need this.
Can I add an opinion ? I am a medical professional who has worked from the beginning of this show spectacle.
The comments made by this consultant are reflective of the truth but of course there are some comments I would question . They certainly are more accurate than your average BBC or Sky report. They are similar to comments made to me privately by a consultant surgeon at my local DGH.
There are some exaggerations. Admissions are not 95 % down overall , but I suppose if you were a surgeon you might observe this because cancelling all electives would lead to this as a possible outcome. I also think the empty ambulances running around with their blue lights is not accurate but it might have started by using the quiet period to train some new paramedics and then the story gets distorted.
Most of the rest I think is OK.
I know that I have previously been critical of the medical profession and you have rightly taken me to task and pointed out that many, or most, doctors are hard-working and honest. I do not argue with that. Thanks for giving a doctor’s perspective on the Surrey consultant’s comments. We need more doctors on this site to give the view from inside the NHS.
Reading it again, it seems to me to be a composite somehow, of different experiences from different sources, brought together in one devastating article.
“Standing alone in my office on a Thurday night listening to the clapping”. Hmm, people sit in their offices don’t they? It feels like a planted story. Perhaps this truly is what 77th Brigade get up to.
Easy for the Surrey consultant to stand up and be counted now. I would be happy to apologise if all is as presented.
Dickens was an advocate of standing desks, we use them too, much healthier. https://www.techradar.com/news/best-standing-desk
Yes, and people stand before they sit and afterwards too. My point remains.
Top tip for ending a phone call you cant get off, Stand up. As old as the hills but works. Oddly not possible if you were already standing.
Sitting at one’s desk and suddenly hearing a sound like a downpour or a thousand performing seals might well make one stand and look out of the window to try to work out what on earth was happening.
Yes. Whoever initially posted this story is irrelevant. The main point is the fact it is anonymous, so it is unable to be verified. It may be a fake or it may be genuine. It might be genuine but exaggerated/tweaked for effect. Who knows? Unless and until this person or persons like him/her are willing to stand up and be counted and take responsibility for what they say, such articles should be taken with a shovel full of salt. Leave it in the “pending” tray for the time being.
Toby has seen common sense and removed it now thankfully.
The point is, the report needs to be genuine to be meaningful. I’d guess that many of the claims are indeed fairly accurate, but if we’re just guessing what’s the point? Bullshit reports like this tend to be grounded in reality, onto which they build lies and misinformation.
This just undermines the reality you speak of.
Did you read the report? Absolutely no way it was written by an NHS consultant.
I think it was likely written by a middle grade from a Surgery department . I also think from the style he or she is an overseas trained Surgeon. As stated there are reflections of the truth and it is just as valid as most reportage from Sky/ BBC but there is also hearsay and exaggerations.
Peter, might you be able to give your thoughts to Simon Dolan for his appeal..?
The claims look credible – but I may be suffering from confirmation bias. Completely agree that the original source makes it deeply dubious though and best avoided
From medical professionals I’ve talked to too it sounds credible, but no one is going to whistleblow to Icke. If there identity was discovered that would be a bigger career suicide than the whistleblowing.
This is a good and reasonable point. But the point in itself isn’t evidence of anything. Realistically the Surrey source needs to be verified. It can be done annonymously.
I suggest it has become incumbent on the Surrey Consultant to stand behind their words, anonymously if needs be. Anything less lacks credibility as has been discussed.
Thank you DaveyP for bringing up the complete issue here. Extremely worthwhile.
He claims many do. Not a few even allow their names to be used.
To me it seems naive to believe whistleblowing is without consequence, especially in the military, financial, medical, academic, pharmaceutical, political, arenas.
Playing the devil’s advocate here, it’s not a comment on if the whistleblower is true or making it all up. Say you were a whistleblower, you tried to get your story out into mainstream media and had no success, TV not interested, bosses not interested, investigative journalists not interested, MPs not interested, Police not interested, local newspapers and radio not interested, social media accounts monitored and censored and so on and you don’t know what to do next – then who do you turn to to get published and things into the public eye? You turn to someone like David Icke (he’s not the only one out there though, there are others who would have listened but they are hard to find. David Icke is probably the most high profile except for Alex Jones who is questionable at times) who will listen and if they think it’s a credible source and story they will publish and be damned and the whistleblower hopes it’s then picked up onto more mainstream or “credible” sites. UK Column and Corbett Report have been going for years but how many out there in sceptic land had heard of them before 4 months ago? I will… Read more »
Sorry to be cynically flippant – but “investigative journalists” isn’t that an oxymoron these days?
Yep, few and far between nowadays.
The last thing you would do is turn to Icke, just by going there no one will ever take you seriously.
Do you seriously think that someone in the MSM would not take the opportunity with this kind of political gold dust to bring Johnson and Cummings down with all outlets still be dominated by Pro-Remainers?
Even if the MSM wouldn’t take the story, and if you wanted to get the story out there, then you would approached someone like Toby or other members of the FSU to get it out there
As stated earlier my suspicions are that a surgeon penned the article in question .I have met and worked with many surgeons over the years ( it was never a vocation which appealed ) . I can say that a small minority are actually batshit crazy , however more loopies are attracted to public health .
I always get the feeling the MSM will only go with a story if it meets the hidden narrative as all political parties are just different faces of the same establishment.
Narrative at the moment is keep Boris in power, government done everything right.
If/when an inquiry starts with a remit to bring down Boris, Government policy killed people and so on then these stories will re-appear and be published.
The more you post, Davey, the more I hear 77…77…
I’d been thinking that for quite a while!
You make a great point AG
Not there. Error 1020.
I refreshed the page, and this part seems to have been deleted. Which is good, because it didn’t appear to have been verified. Also the figures on estimation of Covid risk have been corrected, which is also good. Thanks, Toby.
Yes its gone Sally. Toby has done the right thing.
Yes, good to see that common sense has prevailed. Should never have been there in the first place though.
Bollocks. I’d estimate Icke has a 95% accuracy rate for his predictions over the last 30 years.
Apart from not learning how to spell shit, Davey, what have you done ?
Nothing John, I’ve done fuck all
That’s more like it. Asterisks are for those who haven’t grown up yet.
It’s right to be wary. First thing I would look for are signs from friends/family of the medical profession spreading such information, even if it’s just hearsay. But I’ve not really seen anything and I do a lot of reading on this subject.
Okay – everything that that Surrey hospital consultant has claimed is familiar to me. I’ve been aware of such claims since the beginning of the lockdown. In my local hospital, the A&E was empty for the first two weeks of the lockdown. It then picked up gradually and is more or less back to normal now – this was gleaned from a personal conversation with an A&E nurse in the A&E waiting room, a few weeks ago. It is absolutely true that NHS staff at high levels have been warned from above not to talk to the media about any Covid issues. A very close and trustworthy relative who works in the NHS in a top-tier environment has been told they would suffer grave consequences for doing this. Ambulances running empty to cause panic – I heard that rumour from someone (face to face conversation) three months ago at the start of the lockdown. They were in a position to know about these sort of things, but I cannot for the life of me remember who it was! Anyway, this is not new news to me. Elective surgeries cancelled – totally true. I’ve met several people suffering because their treatment… Read more »
Yeah, it may be familiar, and most of us have heard these things too, so not very difficult for me to pretend to be an anonymous consultant whistleblower and send a story into a sh*t show like Icke’s site.
The problem we have is that there isn’t actually any Doctors or Consultants speaking out, and Toby shouldn’t be peddling sh*t from Icke!
Yes, I totally agree. Everything on this site has to be absolutely verifiable or we lose credibility. I have a soft spot for Icke (my guilty secret!), though I take everything he says with a pinch of salt until I’ve personally backed it up with my own research. He’s served a purpose for me though – at the start of the Lockdown here in the UK, it was through Icke I was first made aware of Professor Sucharit Bhakdi, which then led me to Peter Hitchen’s fantastic blog, which led me to the Swiss Propaganda site and then, eventually to this site and others.
As far as I’m concerned, my enemy’s enemy is my friend. By the end of this we’re going to have to forge some unusual alliances to rescue our society from this madness. But you are right – we have to be careful not to give any ammunition to those inimicable to our values – they are watching and waiting and even a single mistake on our part can prove deadly to our cause.
I also have Icke to thank for leading me to other lockdown sceptics. At the very beginning of all this I had a gut feeling that something was very, very wrong with it and, surprising myself, I thought, “I wonder what Icke thinks about it”. Checked out his site and it has led me to many others (including this one, which has been hugely important to me).
I’m sure I would have felt truly alone and very despondent if I had not turned to him in the first place, and I will therefore always be grateful to him.
Yes, fly in the ointment though is that Icke has a better track record for predictive accuracy than Prof Ferguson.
A&E departments did empty, elective surgeries were cancelled, relatives did question death certificates: all these are well documented and verified. There’s really no need to over egg the pudding with empty ambulances in an effort to ‘sinisterfy’ it and make it fit the deranged Ickean conspiracy narrative.
Mr Dee, can you speak to Simon Dolan about your experiences, to help his appeal?
Let’s say the author is a consultant and what he says is true, how do you explain the tactics the health authorities need to resort to if coronavirus is the modern day black death eg classifying people as covid deaths when they were not, single tests being marked as separate and ambulances being sent out with sirens on to give the false impression they are responding to emergencies. If a disease is dangerous with a high fatality rate or severe symptoms in those who survive, you should never have to resort to fraud to show how dangerous a disease is.
Predictably though, the MSM spins all those study results on lower herd immunity thresholds, T- cells etc. as: goal not reached or no/ only shortterm immunity, therefore SD, masks& lockdown follies must continue until there’s a vaccine.
Not withstanding the increased likelihood that under such circumstances there probably can’t be an effective vaccine, and/as there is no need for it.
I reckon the vaccine notion for Covid is pretty well blown. Forget ideological positions on vaccines in general – its much simpler. Nobody in their right mind would assent to being vaccinated with a concoction that has been rushed through to production without lengthy RCTs – by which time such a concoction would, in any case, be irrelevant.
I agree. But the plan appears to cause much irrational fear with the vaccine as the ticket out of that. The rest is irrelevant, at least in terms of the vaccine plan. The fact they are trialing and rolling out in 12 months if all goes to their plan means it will be a risk to public health. That point alone is testament to seriousness in which they are moving to have vaccines in people.
One might think – but several (normally level-headed) friends would have no objection “if it meant being able to travel”.
…Hence why we are being forced into masks for the foreseeable future. They are reckoning on people being so fed up with masks eventually that they will *beg* to be given the vaccine..