God help us, it’s finally happened. Later today, Matt Hancock – it would be him – is due to announce that face masks will be mandatory in all shops from July 24th, with the police empowered to issue £100 on-the-spot fines to anyone who doesn’t comply.
To coincide with this fresh hell, I’ve posted a round-up of all the evidence concerning face masks by an anonymous contributor on the right-hand side called “Masks: How Effective Are They? An Update“. Most of the evidence suggests the case for mandatory mask wearing outside healthcare settings is weak, particularly the non-surgical, re-usable cloth masks that the Government is insisting on. Here’s a typical paragraph from one of the articles linked to in the new round-up:
Sweeping mask recommendations – as many have proposed – will not reduce SARS-CoV-2 transmission, as evidenced by the widespread practice of wearing such masks in Hubei province, China, before and during its mass COVID-19 transmission experience earlier this year. Our review of relevant studies indicates that cloth masks will be ineffective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 transmission, whether worn as source control or as PPE.
There was a good Newsnight report by health correspondent Deborah Cohen last Friday, which included contributors making the case for and against mandatory face coverings. Making the case for were Oxford Professor Trish Greenhalgh and Royal Society President Sir Venki Ramakrishnan and making the case against were Nottingham Professor Robert Dingwall and Oxford Professor Carl Heneghan. Needless to say, the latter were far more convincing.
Heneghan pointed out that there was little evidence from randomised control trials showing masks were effective and it was odd for the Government to be mandating a public health measure that isn’t based on RCT evidence. He also said that if masks are used repeatedly, rather than disposed of daily, someone with a viral infection can re-infect themselves when they put the mask back on.
Robert Dingwall was even more scathing:
It doesn’t matter whether the evidence is effective or not. The demand is that governments do something and what we’re seeing here I think is the latching on to the idea that masks are something that a government could do which is cheap, which is symbolic, but which is probably not particularly effective.
But the most interesting thing in the report was the following scoop by Deborah Cohen:
The debate is deeply political. Newsnight understands that the World Health Organisation committee that reviewed the evidence for the use of face coverings in public didn’t back them. But after political lobbying, the WHO now recommends them.
After the report was broadcast, Trish Greenhalgh took to Twitter to criticise it. She complained that Newsnight hadn’t used all of her interview (has she never done a pre-record before?) and that interviewing scientists on both sides of the debate, as opposed to just her side, “sows confusion and could cost lives”. “We need responsible journalism or programmes could/will cost lives,” she tweeted.
This is essentially the same argument that Ofcom made when it issued its coronavirus guidance and which the Free Speech Union is seeking to challenge in the High Court. The evidence that a particular Government regulation will be do more good than harm is inconclusive, but nevertheless it’s wrong to allow people to criticise that regulation just in case it is as effective as the Government claims. If it is – even though we don’t know whether it is – then public criticism of it will mean people are less likely to comply and that, in turn, will cause harm. It’s a bad argument because it’s conditional upon taking it for granted that the Government is right and you can’t ask members of the free press to do that.
Deborah Cohen took to Twitter to defend herself and made a good job of it. “She tried to warn me off talking about the evidence saying people would die if I did that,” she said of Professor Greenhalgh. But she pointed out that the Danish Health Authorities do not currently recommend wearing face coverings in non-healthcare settings, pending the outcome of an an ongoing RCT with 6,000 participants. The bottom line is, you’ll only put people at risk by presenting the case against mandatory face masks if they do more good than harm and the evidence for that is threadbare, at best.
Deborah also doubled down on her scoop: “We had been told by various sources WHO committee reviewing the evidence had not backed masks but they recommended them due to political lobbying. This point was put to WHO who did not deny.”
Recommended them due to political lobbying.
One of the most depressing things about this Government’s diktat is that it will mean people are even less likely to go shopping than they were when non-essential shops were allowed to re-open on July 4th. It’s as if the Government is determined to destroy the high street. First, it insisted on the closure of non-essential shops; then it allowed them to re-open, but only on the proviso that they put ridiculous social distancing measures in place, such as limiting the number of people that can be inside at any one time and insisting that anyone entering use hand sanitiser; now they’ve decided to make the shopping experience even more unpleasant. It’s the final blow, surely? Who will bother to go to a shop when they can get everything delivered to their front door?
The question no one seems to be asking is: Why do we need to worry about interrupting transmission of the virus when almost no one has it any more? The number of new cases in the UK yesterday was 530. People remain infectious for a maximum of 10 days, so that’s 5,300 infectious people in the UK at the moment. If we assume that 60% of them are symptomatic and will stay at home, that’s 2,120 people who could be out shopping, or one person in every 31,604. That’s an infinitesimally small risk.
So what is the bloody point?
Stop Press: David Crowe, who wrote the first round-up of the evidence on mask wearing for Lockdown Sceptics, has died of cancer. RIP David.
Academy of Medical Science Issues Apocalyptic Warning
This cannot be a coincidence. On the day the Government announces face nappies will be compulsory, the Academy of Medical Science has warned that unless we start making “intense preparations” before next Winter, the NHS will be overwhelmed and up to 120,000 people will die from coronavirus. Sound familiar? The Guardian has the story.
Senior doctors and scientists convened by the Academy of Medical Sciences said on Tuesday that, without urgent action, a resurgence of cases this winter could overwhelm the NHS when services are already stretched because of flu and other seasonal pressures.
The experts were commissioned by Sir Patrick Vallance, the Government’s Chief Scientific Adviser, to model a “reasonable worst case scenario” for COVID-19 this winter. Their report, which has been shared with ministers and local health authorities, calls for immediate efforts to prepare for a second wave.
Compiled by 37 experts, the report stresses the worst case scenario is not a prediction of what is likely to happen, but a description of how the outbreak may evolve if infections are allowed to surge and little is done to prepare the NHS and social care services.
“The modelling suggests that deaths could be higher with a new wave of COVID-19 this winter, but the risk of this happening could be reduced if we take action immediately,” said Stephen Holgate, Chair of the expert group and Professor of Immunopharmacology at the University of Southampton.
“With relatively low numbers of COVID-19 cases at the moment, this is a critical window of opportunity to help us prepare for the worst that winter can throw at us.”
Take action immediately! Critical window of opportunity! Achtung, achtung! Face masks on, comrades.
Hideous Mask Statue Unveiled in Latvia
This hideous monstrosity was unveiled in Riga, Latvia yesterday, presumably to remind people of the need to be constantly vigilant against the risk of a “second wave”.
Have a guess as to how many people in Latvia have died from COVID-19? 31. And I don’t mean yesterday. I mean in total.
Another Twitter Spat
Dr Adam Rutherford, a left-wing science journalist, launched a rather unpleasant attack on me on Twitter on Monday morning, which began: “It is so perpetually exhausting to have to correct these medically and scientifically illiterate pub bores that somehow have national voices gifted to them not by talent or knowledge, but by virtue of nothing other than their volume.” It was a reference to my Telegraph piece on Saturday in which I claimed the population of the UK would soon achieve herd immunity.
He continued:
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge
Herd immunity does not work like this – as we teach in GCSE biology. Individual immunity, typically via vaccination, prevent the spread of a contagious disease through a population when a majority of that population are immunised and this cannot infect others when exposed to it.
We don’t know if this will work for COVID-19, as a) there is no vaccine b) symptomless infection occurs c) we don’t know if having had the disease confers immunity… d) or if it does, with any permanence e) vaccine-less herd immunity (with the previous crippling caveats) will require more people to get the disease, and therefore more people to die f) I believe exposure rates in the U.K. are currently around 5%, 17% in London. Herd immunity requires >80%.
Apologies if I’ve made any errors here, this is not really my area of expertise. Please do correct me below.
What @toadmeister has done here is to confidently and loudly mistake ignorance for knowledge, because the facts don’t fit his preconceived ideology. Dangerously so.
I suppose the broader point is that in science we are trained to and predisposed to perpetually identify where we are wrong. Look at your work and ask ‘how am I wrong about this?’
Without that you are an ideologue.
This is exhausting because of @Painpoint‘a 4th Law of Thermodynamics: ‘The amount of energy required to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than required to create it.’
He then added an “addendum” from someone he described as “m’colleague on immunity” – Professor Francois Balloux, Director of the UCL Genetics Institute – although the word “colleague” is misleading, as are the repeated references to “we” scientists, because Rutherford is a journalist not a scientist. To be precise, he’s a journalist who thinks he’s a scientist. The “addendum” is a twitter thread posted by Professor Balloux on June 30th about the new evidence that’s come to light about Covid immunity, i.e. that being in possession of IgG antibodies is only part of the story. Balloux’s thread is good, although for Rutherford to link to it at the end of his jeremiad against me was odd because it contradicted several of his claims, such as the idea that you can measure “exposure rates” with seroprevalence data.
I wouldn’t normally respond to such sophomoric abuse, but Rutherford is the presenter of Inside Science, Radio 4’s flagship science programme, and many other people on Twitter also took issue with my Telegraph article, accusing me of peddling “dangerous” misinformation based on my poor understanding of COVID-19. Consequently, I did respond. If you’re on Twitter, you can see my response here. If not, I’ve posted it below:
I was preparing a rebuttal Adam, when I saw you’d posted a response from @BallouxFrancois at the end of your thread that rebuts nearly all of the points you’ve made. As he says, surveys that measure the prevalence of IgG antibodies (which you refer to) are an unreliable way of gauging the percentage of a population that has been exposed to SARS-CoV-2. Seroprevalence surveys are unlikely to detect IgG antibodies for asymptomatic or mild infections.
For instance, a Spanish seroprevalence survey found that 2.5% of asymptomatic patients tested positive for IgG antibodies in a point-of-care test and 2% in an immunoassay; for symptomatic patients, the figure was 16.9% for both tests. See Table 2 here. This and other similar findings are important because if many more people have been infected than seroprevalence surveys indicate that means the infection fatality rate is far lower than originally indicated.
The @WHO initially estimated it at 3.4%; @neilfergie and team estimated it at 0.9% and built that assumption into their modelling; the @CDCgov’s best estimate was 0.26%, and it will likely continue to fall (although the @CDCgov did raise its estimate on July 10th). As Dr John Lee, a former Professor of Pathology, wrote recently in the @spectator: “It could yet settle closer to 0.1 per cent – similar to seasonal flu – once we get a better understanding of milder, undetected cases and how many deaths it actually caused (rather than deaths where the virus was present).”
To properly assess the extent of immunity in any given population, and the continuing threat posed by the virus, we need to take into account T cell immunity mediated by exposure to other coronaviruses, as @BallouxFrancois says.
According to a paper in Cell, ~70% of recovering COVID-19 patients studied had CD8+ T cells and 100% had CD4+ T cells. In addition, the researchers detected SARS-CoV-2-reactive CD4+ T cells in ∼40% – 60% of unexposed individuals, suggesting cross-reactive T cell recognition between circulating “common cold” coronaviruses and SARS-CoV-2. See here.
A preprint last month from a team at Oxford came to a similar conclusion.
Of course, we don’t yet know how much protection T cells provide, but the fact that the number of infections and deaths is falling in all European countries that have eased lockdown restrictions, as well as in those European countries that avoided lockdowns altogether, in spite of most seroprevalence surveys showing that <10% of the populations in those countries have IgG antibodies, suggests something is functioning as a prophylactic against the disease – referred to as immunological “dark matter” by Professor Karl Friston at @ucl.T cell mediated immunity could be that immunological dark matter. It would explain why young people are less susceptible to the virus – the reservoir of programmable T cells declines with age. In a recent article in the @ConversationUK, a Professor of Genetic Epidemiology and a Professor of Epidemiology speculate that T cell mediated immunity could mean a “population can achieve some sort of immunity to the virus with as little as 20% infected – a proportion well below the widely accepted herd immunity threshold (60-70%).”
If that’s the case, the UK could have achieved herd immunity already – remember, seroprevalence surveys only measure the percentage of the pop that has developed IgG antibodies, not the percentage that’s been exposed to infection.Another recent study, this one from the University of Nottingham, estimated the disease-induced herd immunity level is around 43%.
You made the point in your thread that we don’t know if having had the disease confers immunity. True, but the fact that there hasn’t been a single, uncontested case of reinfection is a reason to be optimistic. IgG immunity may fade, but even undetectable levels of IgG antibodies would mean a person who did become reinfected would likely get a milder version of the disease than they had the first time, as @BallouxFrancois says. He also points out that T cell mediated immunity is “extremely long-lived”.So suggesting that the UK will soon achieve herd immunity, as I did in the @Telegraph, does not make me “scientifically illiterate” or “ignorant” or a “pub bore” or “dangerous”, as you claim. You write as if there is a single scientific consensus on SARS-CoV-2 – “the science” – and anyone who dissents from it is an ideologically-driven purveyor of fake news. In fact, there’s very little about the virus, particularly its prevalence and lethality, that is uncontested. Rather, there’s a wide range of views, each with eminent scientists to back them up, along with plenty of research and data.
You often present yourself as an exemplar of best practice when it comes to scientific debate and inquiry, but then, in the next breath, engage in furious, ad hominem attacks on those who disagree with you. It’s as though your self-important, attention-loving self gets the better of your dispassionate, scientific self. For a journalist claiming to be an advocate for the better public understanding of science, this sophomoric name-calling is counter-productive. Perhaps take a break from Twitter? //ENDS
Nicola Sturgeon: “Write Nothing Down.”
A reader in Scotland sent three emails to his local MSP, hoping he might throw some light on the dictatorial approach of Nic Sturge-un. Eventually, he got a reply and it contained this jaw-dropping revelation:
It is clear that the Scottish Government have not been transparent with the public as they have implemented new measures as we ease lockdown. The Scottish Government must release the scientific evidence that has been used for the key decision making in Scotland throughout this health crisis and as further measures as relaxed.
Following an FOI request, it was revealed that the First Minister did not have any written scientific advice during the first few months of the coronavirus outbreak, and so none could be made available to the public. Nicola Sturgeon said instead that the scientific advice that she had received had all been orally, by the National Clinical Director, Jason Leitch, and the Scottish Chief Medical Officer at the time, Catherine Calderwood, and so there was nothing to be released.
No written scientific advice! That’s incredible. But presumably it will make it easier for the First Minister to dodge the blame when there’s a public inquiry in Scotland about the fact that more people have died from COVID-19 in care homes than in hospitals.
A Death in the Family
A reader writes with some sad news:
I didn’t want to post this on the page, because it feels ghoulish and like an exploitation of the dead, but at the same time, I want people to know that this is happening.
We had a death in the family yesterday morning. My husband’s grandfather. He was 92 but of completely sound mind and health. Never got sick. He has been deeply emotionally affected by Project Fear since the start of the hysteria and lockdown, and despite restrictions being lifted – because of his age group – they remained social isolating. He was not even seeing their daughter (my mother-in-law), because she devised a system of getting them groceries without communicating in person at all by leaving it in a car in the car park! Four months locked away.
We weren’t told this on the phone when we got the news of his death, but we just learned… it was suicide. He was muttering all week that he had “had enough” and he couldn’t take it anymore.
So there we have it… I don’t know a single person who has been sick with Coronavirus. I know one person (who was pregnant) who tested positive but was asymptomatic (and then separated from her newborn baby for two weeks). And we’ve had a suicide from lockdown (and social isolation) in the immediate family.
I’m mad as hell. This can’t go on. How many have we already lost with this cruel torture?
Round-Up
And on to the round-up of all the stories I’ve noticed, or which have been been brought to my attention, in the last 24 hours:
- ‘Deaths of children with special needs in Kent raise concerns over school closures‘ – Horrific story in the Guardian. Five special needs children in Kent have committed suicide while their schools remain closed
- ‘German study finds no evidence coronavirus spreads in schools‘ – Yet more evidence that closing schools was completely pointless
- ‘The BBC’s pandering to wokedom will cost it dear‘ – Times columnist Clare Foges is worried about the Beeb. I give it less than 10 years
- ‘Man Wearing N95 Mask Passes Out While Driving Car, Crashing into Pole‘ – Turns out, wearing a surgical mask behind a wheel can make you pass out
- ‘COVID — The Lies We Don’t Question‘ – Good round-up of Covid BS from Lockdown Sceptics contributor Omar S. Khan
- ‘LA teachers union says schools can’t reopen unless charter schools get shut down, police defunded‘ – Crikey Moses. Make our lot look reasonable
- ‘When will the madness end?‘ – Excellent piece by Jeffrey Tucker, Editorial Director for the American Institute for Economic Research. Fantastic opening anecdote
- ‘If it’s Not “Cancel Culture,” What Kind of Culture is it?‘ – Conservative American journalist Matt Taibbi calls the Woke uprising the “all-stick, no-carrot revolution”
- ‘Germany The COVID-19 Extra Parliamentary Inquiry‘ – Opening salvo from the group of German scientists carrying out the unofficial public inquiry. Not a bad idea…
Small Businesses That Have Re-Opened
A few weeks ago, Lockdown Sceptics launched a searchable directory of open businesses across the UK. The idea is to celebrate those retail and hospitality businesses that have re-opened, as well as help people find out what has opened in their area. But we need your help to build it, so we’ve created a form you can fill out to tell us about those businesses that have opened near you. Now that non-essential shops have re-opened – or most of them, anyway – we’re now focusing on pubs, bars, clubs and restaurants, as well as other social venues. As of July 4th, many of them have re-opened too, but not all. Please visit the page and let us know about those brave folk who are doing their bit to get our country back on its feet – particularly if they’re not insisting on face masks! Don’t worry if your entries don’t show up immediately – we need to approve them once you’ve entered the data.
Note to the Good Folks Below the Line
I enjoy reading all your comments and I’m glad I’ve created a “safe space” for lockdown sceptics to share their frustrations and keep each other’s spirits up. But please don’t copy and paste whole articles from papers that are behind paywalls in the comments. I work for some of those papers and if they don’t charge for premium content they won’t survive.
I know it becomes difficult to navigate the comment threads after 24 hours. One alternative to continuing to post below my updates is to move to the forum on Lockdown Truth. The creator of that site has extended a warm welcome to everyone here.
Shameless Begging Bit
Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the last 48 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. It usually takes me several hours to do these updates, which doesn’t leave much time for other work. If you feel like donating, however small the amount, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in future updates, email me here. I’ll try and get another update done soon.
And Finally…
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Lets just recognise that among healthy under 80s this stupid virus has killed a mere 1900 or so people in the UK across the whole multi-month period since it began. The damage this govrnment have done in the name of “saving” people is beyond belief. And now this masks rubbish, what could be more of a step backwards towards re-legitimising the ioditic fears which 24/7 BBC propaganda has drummed in to the population. Furthermore, bloody Boris has politicised the mask situation utterly. If they’d kept it as “advice” then people could have done it without “losing face”. But making it mandatory, what a way to make the population split, and split hard, in to “whingeing mask wearing coronanist zealot left-wingers” and “heartless granny killing right-wingers”, in the words of the opponents against each side.
Someone suggesting on BBC or MSM, I read it today but can’t find it again to quote here, that mask wearing should be compulsory until daily positive tests fall to 1 per million of population, this they low level they said can be classed as viral elimination! But will the economy be wiped out too by then?
Dear Lord, if that happens I will definitely just give up.
I wonder when people will realise they need to
STOP
GETTING
TESTED
False positives alone amount to 14.000 for 1 million tests at the PCR test’s admitted 1.4% failure rate even if the virus was completely eradicated.
Unless the herd can be made to think again, they have all the tools and will lock us in for good through them.
What alpha level have you selected for your analysis, Jay, and why? Michael Gove insists that a knowledge of inferential statistics is a pre-requisite of making any valid statement these days.
Yes, I’m surprised too, given that he has previously disdained expertise, but I’m glad he’s seen the light at last!
What’s a slight worry is that he has rejected frequentist statistics in his recent Ditchley Lecture; these were devised in the 1930s by the eugenicists Fisher and Pearson who leftist academics are currently disparaging, and doing so could be construed as political correctness. I’ve written to him on this matter, so let’s see what he says.
A “positive test” is mostly someone who doesn’t even know they have it!
The official figure for Covid deaths is way overstated too. Two dozen in hospitals, over 100 in the community, none of the latter with a proper post-mortem. These may not even be dying with Covid, simply having tested positive some time previously. Why is no- one actually asking questions?
One has to wonder if the masks thing is deliberately to undo all the progress towards economic restoration we’ve made during the easing. When one wishes to show people that it is safe, among the non-frail you are much more likely to die in a car crash on the way to town than from covid (even if you catch it), you don’t add restrictions. What a way to ramp fear back up for the sheeple. I’m starting to be unsure if something more sinister than government incompetence is to blame, if extending the chaos forever is Boris’s goal.
I said it in April but it bears repeating: Boris is merely following international orders. The only question being who’s issuing them. As always: follow the money.
China look at his decision regarding Huawei
About compulsory face masks: Seems to me that if face masks are compulsory in shops, then maybe they should be provided for free. About apocalyptic warnings: As i have been predicting for a while now, whether the virus actually returns or not, the government will lock us down again. I expect a lockdown starting from September-November, lasting until at least April. The pieces coming out now (as is the piece quoted here) are meant to place the population in a state of panic that will make them eager to accept any and all restrictions dictated by the government. But more importantly, due to this general panic, the population will do the dirty work of silencing dissent from within. A video from a few months ago comes to mind, of a woman working on a farm proudly recalling how she verbally abused someone walking their dog on a public footpath running through the middle of a deserted, open field. She motivated this by citing her fear for her life. So be prepared for: “How dare you say that when millions have died!?” About Twitter spats: It’s fascinating how people think that writing an emotional response laced with pop science “factoids” constitutes… Read more »
Free masks… But if you don’t provide one yourself how can you ensure it has “Defend Freedom, Follow Sweden” written on the front?
Masks should most definitely be free now, they should also most definitely not be doing this.
I can’t even comprehend the sheer waste of resources this is. All these years I’ve been happily recycling away and trying to be economical with things and here they are mandating we plough through 68,000,000 non reusable masks a day now, for no good reason.
For those who’ve been claiming this is some sort of green coup up to now, if it wasn’t obvious enough before, it should be now: this is no ‘green agenda’ plot. The green agenda has gone fully out the window now, I can’t be taking anything they say on the environment seriously at all after these various mask laws being made around the world.
The government can force us to pay for masks via taxation, the government cannot make masks free.
Simon Dolan said on Twitter that the gov had ordered 28 Billion items of PPE.
For which I have one word: landfill….
The government have never been intrested in the green agenda.it was just a vehicle to exercise control and provide cover for extra taxation.They have found a much better one now.
That much is now very clear indeed
In France free masks were distributed by the government. Yet it’s up to shopowners to impose wearing them in the shop or not. They are only mandatory in public transport…I just hope they won’t be following the british example…
Nothing is free, the French already paid for these items through taxation.
Yes, and add in all the extra diesel from the home delivery vans, not just Amazon
The same play book IS being used.
Please everyone let me know if you are interested in making a donation for my initial pre-launch expenses for my case. If enough are then I’ll set up a fundraiser. Thanks
The exact same playbook is being used for both Green and Lockdown. Green has nothing to do with the planet and lockdown has nothing to do with covid19 – they are both excuses for tyranny.
Here is a simple explanation of how greenhouse gases cannot heat the planet https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/
and here is the background, to see what it’s really about
https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/the-conflict-of-ideas
https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/transfer-of-wealth
which is the transfer of wealth from the grass roots to the super-wealthy, precisely the effect that buying everything through Amazon has.
To the last point, deliberate agenda or accidental side effect, I no longer care. Online now has my custom and as that inevitably means Amazon will be the largest beneficiary of my spending, so be it.
We can’t take responsibility for everything, Matt, but I think we should at least try to use local businesses. Many do delivery and are using local WhatsApp and other ways to advertise what they do.
And I will make an effort to continue to use local and smaller businesses where sensible, but the honest truth is that Amazon is always going to end up being the fall back. The reason that it’s such an efficient vehicle for channelling money to Jeff Bezos is that it works.
THEY are all in this together.
Try not to use Amazon – there are many really good local businesses that deliver and have excellent websites – or you can order over the phone & pick up a box from their shop. No mask needed.
I’m going to do a mahoosive dry goods shop before the 24th July and then use the local market and small grocers for everything else. It’s not wholly practical, but it’s how my mum did it in the 70s – everyone did.
I will be buying no clothes, shoes, books, stuff for a long, long time. Recycle, reuse, pass on.
That will be good for our souls….
See my comment to Matt: I’m combining regular visits to my local zero waste shop for dry goods and refills, and the local green grocer’s with Amazon orders, but I’ll need my exemption badge for the latter 2 if attitudes harden here.
And it’s made really hard if you now have no job – like me – and mouths to feed.
The luxury of farm veg boxes & the like is way out of my budget but the local market is pretty good – and hey, what else would I be doing with this new found idleness (after 3 decades of being employed) except budget cooking experiments!
If you have a zero waste shop nearby ,you could make some real savings.
Ours sells everything from cereals to nuts, sugar, herbs, vinegar,seeds , lentils, soup mix and more.
it’s possible to buy just one small scoop at a time-I do this regularly-and paper bags are used.
I do hope you’ll be able to find one.
Hope this doesn’t sound trite, but my income is small and veg boxes are beyond my budget as well.
I guess it depends on local business rates. my Zero Waste store is far more expensive than the local health food shop and various wholefoods online. Bread flour is hideously more expensive
That’s a shame Bella; makes zero waste a bit pointless doesn’t it? Another council clobbering small concerns with hefty business rates.
Ours is still very good value for dried stuff and refills, but I’ll keep an eye on prices.
Zero is a very popular word these days. Zero road accidents, Zero deficit (that’ll be the day), Zero cancer deaths, Zero sugar, etc. When I was in the U.S. Army in 1968 the styrofoam cups that we drank from had the phrase ‘Zero Defects’ printed on them.
It will soon be Zero Thinking if this carries on, and Zero Freedom
Zero defects sounds awfully eugenicist!
When feeding growing family on a limited budget I found that mince and chicken wings/thighs made some brilliant food cheaply – some good cheap cookbooks (and internet recipes) out there.
I will admit buying the sauces and spices seemed a bit pricey at the start but once bought they lasted for ages so per meal were reasonable.
Fed my lot for years when I was struggling.
Wendy, I believe you’re in Scotland (as am I) – there’s no (current) requirement to wear an ‘exemption badge’. So, unless such time as it’s mandated by law, just don’t do it. And part of me is wondering if a compulsory ‘exemption badge’ will be in the form of a yellow Star of David…
Food for thought. Thank you;
Same here; Amazon Prime is a life line in these crazy dysfunctional times.
Yes. Saves me a fortune a year – for half the price of a tv licence!
Try not to use any of the tech platforms if you want to support your local businesses – they take a big chunk of your money leaving the local business barely able to cover its costs. Pick up the phone instead – you’ll get to talk to a human being and 100% of your money will go to them.
I would donate.
Yeah, will probably donate.
I’ll donate.
I’ll be glad to donate.
“Despite this evidence, a group called “masks4all”, which was founded by a “young leader” of the World Economic Forum (WEF) Davos, is advocating worldwide mask requirements. Several governments and the WHO appear to be responding to this campaign”
And it’s British counterpart masks4all.org.uk.
Take a look at makeup and aims of each group and , it ain’t about masks…..
What a creepy website that is!
It is weird, yes! Though the Czech Republic, where it started has largely lost interest.
Free? Free? You want companies to make masks and give them away for free? And for DHL to deliver them for free? Big ask.
I think we may see some more local lockdowns, to remind people it can be done, but I don’t think we will see another long-term national lockdown, because even our unspeakable government will eventually want to be re-elected and will want to have some money to spray around – a national lockdown will cost them too much.
No, I think they are already angling for it with their threats of second waves worse than the first one. I predict October as that’s what they have already stated.
The more they try lockdowns with less and less justification the more people will find ways of flouting them. Anger is palpable in Melbourne and I’m noticing people just about every day doing what I’m pretty sure are against the rules, whereas before it was perhaps once a week at best. There were 88 fines issued in just 24 hours, though where they think unemployed depressed people will be getting money from to pay unjust fines I have no idea. I can honestly see class actions being brought against governments in some places. People do have a breaking point, and I think it is being reached, though not as quickly as I’d like.
Half a million deaths in several months from a minor virus when in a typical year close to 60 million die globally from all causes. Perhaps pointing that out might make the hysterics think.
JD Sports will provide one for customers who are without – but staff aren’t mandated to enforce their use. Sounds like a win-win setup.
I never visit that shop anyway.
One other point, 5.3K cases in the UK right now (assumed). For a individual that shwos just how pathetically small the risk of meeting an infectious person is, let alone the risk of actually catching it from such a person. For the country as a whole though the situation, were it not for political mismanagement and disastrous lockdowns would be even stronger. That cases have reduced to 530 (known) infections per day, and are continuing to drop, shows that something is stopping this virus. And as similar things are happeneing in every country which the virus took widespread hold in at about the same time as it entered Britain, it is pretty clear that what is stopping the virus is not a result of national policies. Somehow, against all predictions this virus is wiping itself out, whether it is early herd immunity, immunological “dark matter”, or something else, the disease is dying. All the zealots had better say their tender goodbyes and start writing eulogies for that packet of enveloepd RNA which did so much to further their foul authoritarian causes.
Why is it that when a flock of geese panic over a plastic bag blowing in the wind which looks a little like a predator they snap out of it in 4 seconds, but mankind, for all our supposed sophistication, takes 4 months and still hasn’t regained sanity.
And what a way to scare the sheep away from “eat out to help out” too. this government clearly wants to go backwards in to lockdown again, and are trying to build up the fear so they can do so.
P.S. terrifying warning about threats to our right to spend cash, the arm of G4S which deals with refilling cash machines and handling boxes for banks is planning mass sackings
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jul/13/g4s-planning-more-than-1000-job-losses-in-cash-handling-services
though I’m sure the hired thuggery arm of the company will do just fine in a sinister “new normal” world
“It’s as if the Government is determined to destroy the high street.”
That’s exactly what they want to do. Wipe out small businesses and force all shopping online. There are no accidents -they know exactly what they are doing.
Well, it may be true that they wish to wipe out small businesses (to help their friends/donors, of course), BUT, I seriously questionw whether they know exactly (or even approximately) what they are doing!
Well they voted to change the IR35 rules next April, instead of abolishing them as idiotic socialist envy. It affects lots of people including those in the media, pharmicists, vets, in fact anyone who sells their expertise as time and materials.
They are not Conservative. They are Consolidationists. Everything will be wrapped up in big business, which itself will be over-regulated. Except banks of course.
This muzzling by force of the law is only bettered in the terror stakes by the fact that millions of people have actively been clamouring for it. Their number may include people who you love or your colleagues, neighbours and acquaintances. Regardless, they have all been singing from the same hymn sheet. “Dehumanise us, Boris” they plead. “Take away our freedoms, agency and dignity. Point us towards the blessed, risk-free pastures of safety, where society can be robustly micro-managed even when facing the perfectly natural, inevitable phenomenon of novel viruses.” As the contents of Pandora’s box spill over into society, it can’t be stressed enough how damaging this decision will be for community spirit and the wider mental health of the nation. An army of feral muzzealots will patrol every supermarket, high street shop and department store. Hostility and rancour will greet every non-comformist to the New Abnormal – not being a part of the muzzled flock will become the new parking in a disabled bay without a blue badge, or smoking while pregnant. The epitome of selfishness. Store managers will be badgered by hectoring members of this new cult, “there’s a man in the loo roll aisle not wearing… Read more »
Looks like it needs to be Shelf Stripping Thursday next week.
Yes. Next time, let’s all vote for that other party that wouldn’t have done any of this stuff.
Exactly. As I observed yesterday when I was back at work confirmed what I’ve thought all along – that many people have been brainwashed by the relentless government and MSM propaganda and don’t seem to mind that they have lost their civil liberties and don’t see anything wrong with the likes of test and trace.
And yet there are people cheering Boris on, praising his handling of the scamdemic, its sickening that so many cannot see what is happening under their moses. I’ll be shopping less from now on, far from encouraging me to go out and spend spend spend I’ll be doing the opposite. Boris and his band of fascists have totally fxxxed the country.
Bella D, they don’t care what’s happening under their noses, that’s what’s sickening. They really don’t. People are wilfully stupid and are too idle to be any other way. This forum is a safe haven, out there (say on Twitter) I would get massacred. The current crop of vox populi wouldn’t have massed forces against Hitler, they would have joined him
Unfortunately the opposition backs this so the next ballot box (if indeed we ever have one) is irrelevant. But also if, as you say, the majority of this country are ‘feral muzzealots’ then they’ll vote for more of the same. I’d suggest an uprising, but we’d probably lose. Most care not a jot about freedom. Still it’d be a cleansing of sorts.
Excellent Scotty87 – except for the last paragraph. Focusing on the next election <> useful. Fixing things now more important.
I wouldn’t wait for the next ballot box if I were you, the damage done might be irreversible by then.
Ballot box? What makes you think there is ever going to be an election again?
Otherwise agree with every word.
If we don’t rise up somehow we condemn our children to a lifetime of absolute misery.. I don’t have kids but we owe it to the young ‘uns.
Do not wait until the next ballot box. It will be too late.
“It’s as if the Government is determined to destroy the high street.”
Good grief !
Toby Young finally gets it ?
MG
But why?
There are two possible answers, Annie.
One that it’s chaos and stupidity – the other that it’s planned and deliberate and part of an agenda to destroy private enterprise and basic western civilization. It’s very difficult to find another possibility. The concept that it is planned and deliberate is very difficult to get one’s head around, because it’s against everything we ever understood about the society that we live in.
The former.
Couldn’t disagree more. The latter. No-one’s that stupid. Remember The Cultural Revolution?
You obviously have a higher opinion of Joe Bloggs than I do Bella. There are many people who are indeed just that stupid. A great many go into politics.
It’s important to remember that it is not just the UK either, but that means the idea of some global conspiracy, that some assert, is on very shaky grounds as by no means every country is doing the same things.
The muzzle directive is a simple way to explain how the second wave failed to kill the 120,000 and how clever the GOV was. Simple smokescreen for failure. Yet millions think this is great. I now hate almost everyone I once liked. Will (un) happily starve to death. Can no longer frequent the independent shops I support and will not be forced to shop at the big chains that deliver. Begging for food on the street seems my only option.
open air markets find one use it,
Bro, go to Asda they won’t say a word about you not wearing a mask. If challenged by some government stooge in a uniform just lie to them that you’re medically exempt. I know it’s shit to lie but fuck it.
I live in the Scotland Highlands and yesterday went to Lidl and didn’t bother with a mask. Admittedly it was very quiet and but the staff were really friendly and didn’t give me a hard time or even comment that I wasn’t wearing a mask. Depressingly, however, I was the only customer choosing not to wear one. They’ll get all my custom from now on.
Speaking to someone the other day, she said that she tried wearing a mask but ended up having a panic attack. She’s now also extremely anxious about being verbally attacked/abused if she doesn’t wear one.
You don’t even have to lie. Print off this tfl card, carry it with you and say wearing a mass causes you sever anxiety. It does, doesn’t it? I know it causes me distress. http://content.tfl.gov.uk/face-covering-exemption-card.pdf
Markets around here are all undercover! So starving it is.
You can support small independents who do online. My friend in North Yorks discovered a wonderful farm in Wales and gets her meat delivered from them now. Lovely meat, very reasonably priced (it’s pastured organic).
My freezer isn’t big enough to take a month’s meat but I get weekly delivery of fabulous Guernsey milk and butter from Abel and Cole, supporting another small farm.
My local farm shop now does an online pickup or delivery service. I haven’t tried it yet but will see how the mask situation works out.
Yes they want you to use the likes of Amazon but the alternatives are many. One of our veg shops not only delivers fruit and veg but will collect from the butcher and supermarket to deliver to the old folks. Some of the farm shops too, and for years I have had a weekly fish delivery.
So that all spending is by card and can be tracked and correlated.
Then they can say “you have spent more than you declared to the tax man, you’re nicked” or it will become rationing “you have had too much alcohol/fatty food/takeaways etc no more, card stopped”.
Or if you really get on the shit list your account cancelled for good – how do you prove you had “money” in the account if the computer records show it never existed?
Part of the Agenda 2030 new green zero carbon green utopia.
You need to read what it means, not what it says.
https://unsdg.un.org/2030-agenda
It started a this then a sit was running behind schedule and missed the 2021 target it became agenda 2030:
https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/outcomedocuments/agenda21
Yes!
I keep telling people to use cash whenever possible. I spotted early on that online shopping reduces the need for cash. They’ve been pushing for a cashless society for decades now.
Now, I refuse to use shops and cafes that want card payments only. Online, unfortunately there’s no choice.
I started using my card in the local shops where I previously used cash, because they asked us to and I like them.
As a result my card was blocked for “suspected fraud”. I explained what I was doing and why (and obviously thousands all over the country must be doing the same). They blocked the card AGAIN. You can be Disappeared on their whim.
Annie, part of the mission statement of masks4all.org.uk.
“Stay at home! Wearing masks shouldn’t make you go outside of your house more than necessary. All the official guidelines still apply.”
One of the founders is a ‘digital activist using her background in digital marketing to campaign for real societal and political change’
Again, nothing to do with masks.
Very much agree with you. I like a tin box full of cash…essence of a free society! Though I dont think I would do that if I still lived in my old Manchester city. Burglary capital of the UK!
I saw an XR slogan on the back of a sign recently which said, ‘ We refuse to go back to normal. Normal was the problem.’
My thought was fine get left behind when everyone currently on the corona band wagon gets bored or fed up or whatever and just goes back to normal whether authorities want it or not – and it will happen, I’m seeing signs of it already.
I think that’s the best we can hope for, that there is mass civil disobedience, but it really worries me how many people are seemingly happy to go along with whatever the Government tells them to do. Once your freedoms have been taken away, it’s very difficult to get them back again.
One of the odd things I’ve noticed amongst proponents of masks and lockdown, both with ordinary members of public and scientists/medical types like the guy challenging Toby, is they tend to not apply scientific challenge equally.
Scenario A: A study shows we _might_ have more deaths if virus turns out to be airborne on aerosols. Virus _might_ be just that.
These people: ‘See!! Look how dangerous this is! Masks are needed!’
Scenario B: Study (and overwhelming real world experience) shows virus not as lethal as first predicted. Schools not a source.
These people: We don’t know that with 100% certainty, keep everything shut, and would someone shut up the journalists reporting this study it might kill people.
I honestly don’t know how they can look themselves in the mirror, they’re getting a kick out of preaching safety safety whilst hysterically clamouring to attach themselves to all the doomsday scenario predictions as a matter of pride.
And they cause copious pain suffering and death in the process.
Yep, I can only assume they genuinely have no idea what they’re doing to many many peoples mental state as well.
I’ve never been a depressed or angry person, never been in a fight in my life in fact, but honestly for the last couple of months I can barely go a few minutes without wondering either what the fucking point is anymore or why isn’t there a mass protest where we’re all defending ourselves?
Yeah I really hope the British people pull themselves together and start resisting what is now so obviously tyranny.
because most of the British people have suffered a state education are stupid as fuck. It’s down to you to make a stand. I don’t wear the mask, never will and welcome any fucker to challenge me. None do though because not only are they dumb all over they’re also cowards.
Where is our equivalent of BLM protests outside whitehall? these removal of basic civil liberties impact all free thinking self sufficient human beings and yet there is no mass organisation of rebellion, there is apathy and acceptance
I’m with you on that one… was so depressed last night hearing the news…it just seems one car crash after another and no way out. Masks will be here to stay and will be normalised. What have we become…
We have become a flock of mindless sheep, bleating “Keep us saaaafe! Keep us saaaafe! Take away all our freedom and our dignity but keep us saaafe!”
Not here to stay. Will not be normalised. Doing one tiny tiny thing to fix it is better than grumbling / being pessimistic.
(They make these announcements late at night just to catch people when they are tired, and less confident and positive.). More SPI-B shit.
Good point!
I know how you feel. Your comment mirrored my state of mind exactly. I even had my mother telling me today that I am in the wrong for disagreeing with this. Dad was saying how he went to a pub where they took your temperature and some poor girl was turned away for being too high. My response, ‘how terrible’ mum’s ‘that’s how it should be’. Apparently girl walked up and down street for ten minutes before her temperature had dropped and she was allowed in. What are we coming to.
I get angry more than depressed….especially at the BBC’s relentless propaganda about the so called black death.
I’ve started pointing out that it’s actually genocide.
Yes Pol Pot Johnson.
Well said. I’ve observed two types of lockdownistas: the millenials who have a lot to lose when the economy goes into free fall but believe that “lives should come first before profit” (pace Jeremy Corbyn) is ignorant of basic economics and see the muzzle as a way to virtue signal the upper middle class to middle class people of a certain age who if are still working are in sectors or positions where they will not be affected by any loss of jobs or are cushioned from bankruptcy. Or if they’re retired have very generous schemes and protected by the triple lock. If on social media they have been copying the millenials by virtue signalling with their muzzles as well. I’ve realised that its like General Custer’s last stand when trying to reason with these lot. The only thing I think will make these people wake up is when they’re hit in the pocket and stomach – the millenials by losing their jobs and having to sign up to go on the dole as it will get harder and harder to find new jobs and the upper MC and MC Karens and Kevins by being hit with tax raids on… Read more »
Being hit in the throat or the balls might wake them up too. 🙂 🙂
Indeed.
A lot of number 1 are living with parents from number 2 and don’t wanna work. They get extra spending money from Uncle Sam in my country and are ignorant enough to think this can last forever.
And they yell at hairdressers on FB worried about feeding kids and homelessness telling them to “cancel the yacht payments.” Seriously. They love trolling I notice.
They think they can go back to their barista jobs and hipster lifestyles after a nice, long 2 year “staycation.” No sympathy from me when they can’t.
Well said. And they think too that they can be cushioned by the bank of mum and dad (plus bank of grandparents) so they lack sympathy with people who have been hit badly by this. Its repulsive and grotesque.
I very much agree with your categories and can think of people I know in each. I think its the end of any links with these people. They now hate me anyway so f___ to them.
They were based from my very unscientific observation of people I know and its been illuminating how daylight has seeped into magic with them (apologies to Walter Bagheot)
The issue is also that they read a paper and say a study shows. No it doesn’t. It puts forward only a suggestion within the bounds/assumptions of its arguments. That is a long way from doing anything. And it’s a very long very from being something that can be applied to the real world. I did my PhD in Physics. In the field I was in we’d often see papers where someone would do an experiment and claim certain things. Even with real data, you’d still be sceptical unless it could be repeated. When it came to “studies” – you’d shake your head and laugh. But you see in the soft sciences, studies and associations are all you have. It can work when the source data is robust and has low noise, but in observational fields this rarely happens. And now with Post-Normal science and agendas, this hypothetical mishmash is taken to be fact and “evidence” Climate science has been doing this bait-and-switch for many years, also using the “peer reviewed means that it is correct” horseshit. Repeatibility, testing something and always trying to break it and seeing it still work, being conservative in your estimates of precision and applicabilty.… Read more »
Thanks for this insight from someone more informed on processes, reassuring to know some scientist types are a bit despairing too
Dietary “science” especially. Several competent doctors like Michael Eades and Richard Bernstein were trained engineers. Many “scientists” not so much
“The bridge fell down!”
“Build another one exactly the same, it’ll stay up next time!”
never happens
I see Trish Greenhalgh proudly declares her support for BLM…
Her ? I thought he was a bloke ?
Yes they do not have clue one about important things like the Farr curve, whcih the virus has basically followed.
There have been days with zero deaths in Scotland and Wales and as Toby pointed out Egland will soon follow suit
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-death-data-in-england-daily-update/
nearly there, look at all the hospital trusts reporting no deaths. Not part of the Agenda so not in the MSM.
Since hardly anyone has it who are you going to catch it from?
Despite knowing for months how bad this situation is and that we now live in tyranny it still deeply hurts to see each step play out. Feeling really depressed today. My children still sleeping so sweet and innocent do not deserve the evil world these tyrants and all those complicit fools are creating.
Every day the situation looks worse. I’m in tears for our children.
Regarding the comparison between the Green Agenda and this, they are the same thing, because Green was always a cover for tyranny and never about its apparent aims.
Regarding facemasks, is this 100% or are people with anxiety conditions or asthma or lung disease exempt?
They are still thankfully. I have an exemption badge which I use for public transport and will use it to go to the supermarket. I have been boycotting the High Street since 4 July and this won’t alter my stance.
Bart, there’s no legal requirement to wear an ‘exemption badge’, at least not here in Scotland, and not yet. Making it a statutory requirement would be a bit too akin to yellow Stars of David in 1930s Germany, and I think the PTB are wary of the optics of that. For the moment anyway. So, don’t wear your badge, simply state that you are exempt – you’ve no legal obligation to prove it, again for the moment,
Thanks for that. Will carry it with me but thankfully I’ve not been challenged yet and have not been confronted by transport staff or police.
One very tiny ray of hope – my Mum was officially told at the doctors this morning that she didn’t have to wear her mask as it was a danger to her health! She has pulmonary hypertension.
The downside is my Mum still doesn’t want to go out, as she thinks people will question her not wearing a mask. I have to test the water – so to speak – on the grounds of my hearing loss. We’ll see – first trip to the Co-op is tomorrow.
Your mum would benefit from an exemption badge.
The Green Terror was always about tyranny. Dr Parick Moore one of the founders of Greenpeace saw the way the wind was blowing four decades ago and left the organisation. See any of his videos on you tube or read J Delingpole ‘Watermelons’.
It is. It’s evil.
We must resist. At the very least, start a campaign – make badges, make posters, even spray graffiti if that’s your thing.
As for the police rushing round imposing fines – they haven’t the manpower, fir starters.
I shall not be going into any shops at all unless it’s that or starve. I shall click and collect if it’s humanly possible, buy from roadside booths, buy online, anything.
Oh God, how did we become such miserable slaves? What’s WRONG with people who were normal five months ago?
PS. Amazon do groceries. I used to think that was bad, now it may be a life-saver.
I’ve just ordered some groceries from Amazon Annie. Next day delivery.
don’t buy from Amazon these people hate you, treat their workers like slaves and you buying from them is equally as disgusting as they are. I would rather starve and buy from fucking Amazon. Get down the shops without mask and stop hiding. Time to stand up for freedom. Don’t just leave it to folk like me
You’re right, Biker, and yet the sheer horror of it overcomes me … I must try to be as strong as you are.
Like James Brown sang “i feel good” when i go out without my mask. You could too.
I’m using 2 local shops as well;see above.
Also learned that Deliveroo also do grocery deliveries too.
There are many shades of normal. Some are more vulnerable to attack than others, some more robust and impenetrable than others. Fifty shades of Normal.
Lots of civil disobedience is the answer. If they try another lockdown where I live I know that will happen. Few of us wear masks anywhere but medical settings. And I’ve heard nurses and doctors grumbling about them.
People were probably always like this. Most people have a herd mentality and pretend they are individuals. They are nothing of the sort. There are a small minority of independent thinkers who do not have the herd mentality gene. I have always known I was one of the latter but sadly no one else I know in my circle is. I am increasingly viewed with hostility and suspicion. People like us will be first in the queue for the Gulags.
You are not alone, STD. I’ve just brought a daughter into this crazy world, and have two kids under 5. My 4 year old lad draws “germs,” he builds “germs” with his Lego, he’s been separated from his school friends for 3 months and still talks about them incessantly.
It’s heartbreaking but he is fortunately in a household full of love for him and his siblings. I can only dread to think of the mental and physical harm coming to those children who aren’t so lucky.
Get him out on as many play dates as you can, Scotty. He’ll benefit from it and apart from anything else, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the number of other parents whose tend towards the sceptical, or are at least open to having the fear narrative challenged.
No like-minded parents whose kids he could play with, Scotty ?
I’m so glad we don’t have any young children I don’t know what I’d do! What kind of dystopian future is in store for them. I fkin hate Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock, I’m also in including Dominic Cummings because I think he has had a detrimental effect on the ‘ science’ we hear so much about.
Stick to what you know and blame only the people in charge.
Cummings is a convenient fall guy for Boris. Don’t let Boris off.
Is he your mate John ? Else he’s Johnson.
Actually I’m feeling a bit more cheerful now after the initial shock last night that they’d actually gone and done it. We now know who the enemy is. The battle lines are clear.
I hope to see these tyrants and traitors on trial for their lives when this is all over. They need to be told now that “I was only obeying orders” will be be no more acceptable than it was at Nuremberg.
Lawful rebellion rears its head. A tyranny is being cemented in place over us and it is every freeborn Englishman’s duty to do everything he can to frustrate it.
So one silver lining here. Does this mean senior members of government may be starting to disagree with policy? (After Gove on marr) Surely any proper conservatives in gov would be shocked at what their party is becoming?
It’s hard to credit that anybody with an ounce of ‘Conservative’ blood would want this. Are they all so utterly rotten, so entirely corrupt? Was the foulness always there, just kept in check by the weight of a thousand years of painful progress towards freedom?
The foulness has always been there in Conservative politicians yes, in many ways. There’s often a huge difference in what Conservative voting friends stand for and think they’re voting for and what gets delivered and what the MPs stand for – usually just themselves and maybe their mates, and their continued hold on power.
I fear that the answers are all Yes.
What did Gove say on Marr, please)
He said masks should not be mandatory and that we should trust people’s judgement. Apparently, it took 24 hours for his view to be dismissed
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/jul/12/face-masks-should-not-be-mandatory-in-shops-says-michael-gove-video
(Guardian, sorry, but the first link I found)
So who is in charge here, do you think? Who is making the actual decisions? How do you understand this?
Well, I’m having one of those days where I’m struggling to cling to the belief that this is about incompetent government rather than an agenda, but as I’m just about holding o at this point, I’ll say the government is being led by the ring through its nose by the media.
Understood. It hurts one’s brains to force it to accept that the government not the media is running the show. But what the relative power is of Boris, Cummings, Gove or Neil Ferguson (ie of his financial backer, Bill Gates) is hard to make out. My guess is that Bill Gates is effectively in charge, fwiw
Gates is a puppet figurehead, for big pharma and the USA alphabets.
He’s the nutjob with the dosh!
The media and especially social media and twitter. Twitter basically has swallowed the media whole, and it’s a platform full to the rim with psychopaths.
BORIS JOHNSON
THE PRIME MINISTER
Gove is (or was) apparently quite pally with James Delingpole who is a sceptic and friend of Tobys.
I get the impression that Gove was signalling dissent from government policy.
If and when the shit really hits the fan he can say he was against it and maybe mount a leadership challenge.
Gove is a very slippery character. He never gives a straight answer to a question. He’s intelligent and a real snake. I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him.
No paywall, no problem.Thanks.
Depends how far down this rabbit hole they’re prepared to let things go before they stick the knife in.
Tyranny.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372. Note the second paragraph.
This will soon resemble the Salem Witch Trials: mob behaviour will increasingly focus on dissenters and whip up accusatory pile ons and ostracism. We’ve already watched, with alarm, as the cancel culture takes hold; just wait now for people like us to be silenced. Online shopping for me now, so one customer less in our impoverished high street- already struggling and increasingly run down. The exemption badge which I ordered a week ago, will not be delivered until the weekend: increasing demand has caused a back log. What does this tell us? Since the diktats issued by the Holyrood Headbangers are replete with exclusions and inconsistencies, including the exemption criteria, what will the consequences be? This , to me, reflects the managerialism and lock of conviction resorted to by administrations run by arrogant technocrats obsessed with dodging the responsibility bullet and running scared of the MSM’s denunciations. So, we voted to leave the EU’s hegemony, only to find ourselves reduced to panicky, compliant mask mannikins with basic freedoms steadily curtailed. I’m beginning to dread going out now, and shall rely on very early walks to maintain a semblance of sanity in this Stepford world. It’s awful and I see no… Read more »
Should read -lack of conviction-para 7 in my jeremiad
We spent a lot of time laughing at ‘conspiracy theorists’.
Meaning?
Come on Wendy, it’s the afternoon already. 🙂
Last line of your post, I answered.
😕 Penny has dropped.
All through this insanity I have been going for a five or six mile walk with our dog at dawn everyday,it’s the only thing that has held me together.We go to the river in a beautiful peaceful valley south of our town,we never see anyone just wildlife.When I went this morning I was angry and upset about the masks issue my mind was in turmoil,when I got to the river I discovered that it seems work is about to start on a new road they are going to put across the valley and destroy it,I wasn’t expecting work to start until 2022.So it seems that I am about to have my one piece of quiet sanity taken from me now aswell.
I feel I am heading to despair now.
Yet another dispiriting example of the damage being done Paul.
So many comments now reflect people’s anger, frustration and alienation.
When I lived in Cornwall, a lovely old orchard, a refuge for many birds and rare creatures like slow worms was put up for sale.
Shortly after I moved away, a friend told me that despite concerted opposition, the sale had gone through, permission was granted for a large house to be built, and the whole orchard was dug up and destroyed .
Only one house. That’s very sad!
They;ll need the road for all the Amazon delivery vans.
Sympathies, so far we are lucky here to have plenty of places to walk and see wildlife. There was going to be a Big Meeting about the Town Plan but it was kyboshed by the lockdown so they may well start buiklding stuff without consultation.
We came to this by not hitting back at Public Health zealots telling us how to live. They are running the show now. It’s all about Health and collective rights. Another word for conformity in my opinion. Individual rights be damned.
Even with this ridiculous law, nobody needs to wear a mask who doesn’t want to. I’m guessing the exceptions will be exactly the same as for public transport. So any physical or mental illness covered under the 2010 equality act (which is a very broad spectrum) or if it causes you severe distress (very vague and can’t be proved)
I don’t believe any of the supermarkets or independent shops will care what you’re not wearing. It’s not down to them to enforce it. If you ever were challenged by the police just use the exceptions above. I don’t think they’ll be any law that says to have to prove it.
There are fines for loads of things littering, fly tipping, breaking the speed limit etc etc, it doesn’t stop them happening every day.
Bottom line to the government is. Fuck your face masks and fuck all your bullshit rules you inept bunch of tossers.
You restore my courage, bless you! Fuck ’em!
Nicely put.
In a nutshell!
I agree, except the zealots, the voluntary government enforcers, the snitchers, will be out to get you/us.
Thank god for this forum for turning me into the arch-sceptic I am today. Saw this obscene bit of fear porn on the BBC just now. It’s part of a report requested by Sir Patrick Vallance: “The UK could see about 120,000 new coronavirus deaths in a second wave of infections this winter, scientists say. Asked to model a “reasonable” worst-case scenario, they suggest a range between 24,500 and 251,000 of virus-related deaths in hospitals alone, peaking in January and February.” The article itself is full of the usual coulds and maybes, but the really interesting question is, who is providing the report’s modelling? I downloaded all of the 80 page report by the Academy of Medical Sciences, and found the following in the acknowledgements: “Dr Lilith Whittles, Research Associate, Imperial College London; Dr Marc Baguelin, Lecturer in Infectious Disease Epidemiology, Imperial College London and Associate Professor, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine; Dr Edward Knock, Research Associate, Imperial College London; Dr John Lees, MRC Centre GIDA Research Fellow, Imperial College London; Dr Katy Gaythorpe, Research Fellow, Imperial College London; Dr Robert Verity, MRC Research Fellow, Imperial College London; Dr Lucy Okell, Lecturer/Royal Society Dorothy Hodgkin Research Fellow, Imperial… Read more »
Excellent research. HOW do we get Professor Ferguson’s involvement in this into the mainstream media? His lockdown-breaking for nooky purposes is widely known.
Toby: with your contacts, PLEASE could you get Ferguson’s fingerprints on another numbers scare-mongering report into the mainstream press?
God help up. Ferguson will be PRAYING for a quarter of a million dead over the winter to save his credibility. The man should be indicted for crimes against humanity.
We could get that out during my case.
Please everyone let me know if you are interested in making a donation for my initial pre-launch expenses for my case. If enough are then I’ll set up a fundraiser. Thanks
I would definitely donate to an action relating to compulsory masking, even though I’m in Scotland and a judgement would only relate to England. Scottish judiciary are so corrupt and in the pockets of the SNP that a case here would be a waste of time.
Time to put our money where our mouths are. I’ll donate and also spread news. Have you a brief message for us to copy and post out to our contacts please.
It would have a knock-on effect though.
Yes I definitely am – how do I register this?
https://www.lockdowntruth.org/post/face-mask-legal-action
I’ll certainly donate and I’m signed up at the Lockdown Truth site. Just let us know when the crowdfunding begins.
Me!
Unfortunately Gillian, there is a vicious cycle at play here which is very difficult to break.
The likes of the BBC will always give disproportionate exposure to doom-mongers like Ferguson as it fits the media narrative perfectly. They are desperate to keep us living in fear as the mass hysteria keeps people buying papers, watching the news and clicking links, all generating income for these mendacious scoundrels.
And of course, vile egomaniacs like Ferguson get their names and faces plastered all over the place, giving them levels of attention and power over the public that they could have never previously thought possible.
They’re all in it for personal gain. That’s why they want this nightmare to drag on for as long as possible.
Yup, and when another quarter million people DON’T die Boris will take the credit.
Start with the comments sections at least.
Good grief! Well researched and useful to know. Thanks!
Face masks. How have we got to this? Another day and normal normal recedes further into the distance. What is going on in this looking-glass world? Hardly anybody is dying, infections are reducing, and now we’re going to have to wear face masks?! I don’t need to say to anybody here ‘the science is not proven’. We all agree this is madness, right? But what to do? My MP (Conservative) is a nurse who apparently has worked on Covid wards during the crisis and found the experience harrowing. Is it even worth my time to write to her and complain about the way in which Boris and the government have just utterly lost the plot? Are there protests happening? There must be so many of us sensible, pragmatic people who don’t want to go along with this sh*t (nonsense is too benign a word) and yet we are not seen or heard. Yes articles and ideas from here make their way into mainstream media a few days later. There are comments from scientists, even on The World at One, but they’re not gaining any traction. Instead they are ‘balanced out’ with opinion that agrees with the government’s line. Final point.… Read more »
You’ve got it. From now on, any improvement un the situation will be attributed to face nappies.
Diabolical. I mean that quite literally.
Good. Don’t wear your mask, and don’t pay any fines they levy against you. Claim a medical / health exemption, which, by the way, you don’t have to prove. The presumption of innocence still applies in this country so Plod must *prove* you’ve committed an offence. And, for most criminal charges, you still have the right to remain silent. These legal protections may yet be swept away, but while they exist make use of them.
Good advice!
I’ve barely slept.
I’m so miserable. I can’t see how we are going to get out of this mess. The virtue signalling is already out in force on social media. There is zero acknowledgement that when we weren’t wearing masks, nothing happened and now nobody even has it anymore…
This is going to make primary schools a deeply unpleasant place to be. The hospital is already awful, even though the staff in my department are the only other dissenters I know.
I’ve had fleeting suicidal thoughts this morning, which have scared me. It’s the runaway political train that’s done it.
Just woke up and remembered it all…. 🙁
Please everyone let me know if you are interested in making a donation for my initial pre-launch expenses for my case. If enough are then I’ll set up a fundraiser. Thanks
I totally hear you. It’s hard not to get extremely depressed by what’s going on. I suffer from anxiety and so throughout the whole of this madness I’ve been battling to keep myself on an even keel.
It’s possible to be pragmatic and ‘get things in perspective’ but in a way I wonder whether we should. This stuff is scary, it’s wrong, it’s unnecessary.
It gets us down because there doesn’t seem to be a way out of the madness. The government have thrown themselves into this bizarre fantasy hook, line, and sinker. I can only think at this point it’s an extreme case of ‘ass-covering’. The government scared the sh*t out of everybody, screwed the economy, and now they just can’t admit, or allow it to become obvious, that the whole panic was over a severe form of flu.
If you suffer from anxiety, you don’t need to wear a mask.
Your naked face will be a beacon to prove to others than masks are pointless. Win, win!
I’d love to be able to give you a morale-boosting reply, but it does look utterly hopeless
Do one small thing against it, rather than posting negative sentiments. The mechanics of success are/should be well known.
Aldous Huxley spoke about the insidious development of mind control. Some of his talks can be found online.
Matt, do not lose hope. I, too, was in the depths of despair recently, but it’s lifted. Do not go gentle into that good night – resist, in any way you can. You only have to tell them “no” one more time than they demand “yes!” and you win. Every day you tell them “no” is a victory. Savour that, and be of good heart
Chanel your anger into supporting Lockdown Truth’s case. Let’s support something that’s useful.
Be strong. This will pass. It’s awful, it’s hideous, it may go on fir a ling time, but it will pass.
We are here for one another. BE STRONG.
I admire your optimism, but I don’t see this passing
Already they are putting out scare stories for winter
They already are planting messages relentlessly of accepting masks as ‘new normal’ and saying, as if we should be aspiring to this, ‘hey look, China and Korea are on board with masks’, they have their blueprints for the way they wish to run this country now, and it’s authoritarian role models that are guiding them.
Yes I agree. Now we are able to see just what a bunch of f. kin fascists they really are. Not one of the miserable parasites will stand up for our Rights! Vote for them? No freakin way!
One tentatively suggest they have always been recognisable as fucking fascists …
But they will lose. No sense of humour, no sense of common sense, and no higher spiritual capacity.
Why the fuck are you listening to their scare stories ?
In the time taken to make your post, you could have printed and laminated a poster, emailed someone, or somesuch.
Hey you are not alone. I’ve had some real dark thoughts myself. I found thumping the hell out of a pillow helped, seriously it does help. I swear quite a bit too F. O. has become my mantra. So chin up go punch a pillow and swear like a trooper! It’ll be good for you!
.
Never give up. Truth and virtue will eventually triumph, it just might take some time. There will be so much resentment built up by even the most passive of people that something will cause a spark that will invite this. Your job is to carry on spreading the word, helping to build the supply of tinder for that time.
I am a nurse in ITU, and just keep plugging away at my colleagues. It’s a thankless task and most are just not interested, but each convert can be the start of a chain. Our R number needs to be >1, you need to be exceptionally virulent with your ideas.
We’ll win.
We’re going to get out of this mess, Dr, as other posters have said, by telling the government to “Fuck off !”. Loudly, repeatedly, in all situations, to anyone who will listen.
Listen and heed the words of this late 60s rap song from The Last Poets: Hold Fast.
There is a stupid ad that precedes it for four seconds. It’s worth the annoyance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5znjNGR9lkM
Concerned Dr. you have my sympathy.
I have 2 questions for you. In your opinion, how many of your fellow professionals are actively promoting this scare? And why?
Please don’t despair. We need help from doctors like you who will speak the Truth.
This whole thing is crazy making. It feels like we’re all being gas lighted.
I spent 25 years in an abusive cult. This whole situation is giving me de ja vu.
Off the topic…. have I seen you Mad in America? Someone who looks very much like you has made some amazing posts on Mad in America.
Of all the straws, I feel that the face mask wearing edict must be nearing the final one.
I need a least cost way of protesting this. I cannot afford £100 each time I go out. Neither can I not shop as I have to fetch provisions for an 86 year old man. I also don’t want to go down the lying about having a medical condition route as that would remove the element of protest and indicate that I would comply if only I could.
So, I’m thinking maybe something written on the outside of the mask. A message indicating that it is only duress ensuring compliance. I’ve discounted obscenities, tempting as they are. The best I have come up with so far is something along the lines of “Shop at Lidl” for when I am in Sainsbury’s and vice versa.
SLAVE across the mask would indicate the way the population is going, despite the protests about all of that, we are now becoming more like slaves every day, freedoms stripped away on a whim.
Please everyone let me know if you are interested in making a donation for my initial pre-launch expenses for my case. If enough are then I’ll set up a fundraiser. Thanks
I’m in, LT
Me too.
I’ve thought about exactly the same thing and nearly posted about it a few days ago. I was going to ask if it was worth all of us who have to wear a mask (totally get your point about the building cost of fines) drawing the same thing on them. I’ve considered ‘F**k off Boris’ but thought that was a bit provocative (or maybe not!) ‘science not proven’ (figured I’d be verbally abused for being a ‘Karen’) so finally settled for the eye-roll emoji, which is the one at the top of my favourites since this whole sh*t show started!
The problem with the F**k off Boris sort of line is that many ardent mask wearers would agree with that!
Something simple requiring no artistic skills so just a word, no profanities so you can’t be kicked out a shop. Just capital letters
‘OBEY’
or even take a leaf from BLM and opt for
‘I CAN’T BREATHE’
How about a red V on a black muzzle?
Good ! 🙂
Nice, but I doubt the majority of sheeple would get the joke.
I suspect “666” in a circle may become common (Number of the Beast). Or for extra spice, a yellow star with “For your safety” written on top.
People won’t understand that. I don’t understand that.
Or a yellow star with 666 in it.
A finger to the lips (Shush) ?
How about something as basic and factual as “WORN UNDER DURESS”?
I like it. To the point. If I was going to use a mask, which I’m not intending to right now (but totally get that some people will have to) then that’s what I’d put on it.
Perfect Tim, I’m amending that to MASK WORN UNDER DURESS on badges for my family. That way I can avoid the fine but let everyone know that I think it is all bollocks! Thanks for the simplicity of this.
I heard news say it’s reduced to £50 if fine paid in 14 days. Will shop less & less.
Noticed it said fine up to £100.
Perhaps Toby could organise a competition poll for the best mask message? I would like some ideas. My best suggestion so far is ‘Guided by the science?’ but I think it’s a bit too long.
How about this printed on masks?This website could fund-raise by selling them:
Compulsory masks do not control viruses. But they do control people.
This avoids being specific about which virus, as any bug in the future will be used to justify compulsory masks. And it uses the government’s own word “control”.
Good sentiment, but a tad long ?!
I agree with your comment about my comment! it IS too long. Verbosity is a problem for me. Anyone come up with an improvement?
The trouble is, anyone showing dissent from the believers in mask-wearing is likely to get, at best, dirty looks and, at worst, physical assaults. This for me is the scariest aspect: the government has sown so much fear that the majority of the public will now police the rules via shaming the dissenters. Real 1984 stuff.
Another suggestion:
“Controlled by Boris”
Let’s make it personal: he won’t like being named by dissenters.
Compulsory masks control people not viruses.
?
Masks control people not viruses
Julian, would be forced to wear a face nappy on the basis of nothing more substantial than illogical government diktat cause you severe distress or anxiety? If so then you can claim medical exemption with a clear conscience, and you don’t have to prove it. To anyone. If anyone asks simply tell them you have a health condition that makes wearing a mask inappropriate and leave it at that. If they demand the details, or try to prevent you from accessing a premises, they’re probably committing an offence under the Equalities Act 2010 and you should point that out to them.
Do whatever stops you from feeling hopeless.
There’s a lot can be achieved passive-agressively!
Those who disagree with the forced use of face coverings need more loud voices. There must be people with influence, people in Government who dont agree with all of this. How did we happen to elect a Dictator, was the jovial Boris demeanor always a lying sham. Where can we find the people to fight against the lies. People are not dying en masse, we know they aren’t, some councils even told their residents that there would be refrigerated lorries at cemeteries for mass graves, the lies and fake news has been a total shock to the system.
Maybe the jovial Boris was replaced by a double and the old Boris was tossed into the Thames? Or perhaps he went under hynotic suggestion while convalescing? He does not appear to be the same Boris as pre-pandemic Boris. Who is whispering in his ear?
Bottomless stupidity. An idiocracy.
Happy Bastille Day everyone.
Very mixed feelings so far this morning.
Woke up to the expected news that face nappies are to be compulsory in shops from ten days’ time (why ten days?). I’m exempt of course, and happy in the knowledge that it will hasten the demise of the Johnson administration.
And, I must admit, part of me finds it all fascinatingly hilarious – really very funny.
Nevertheless, immediately drafted off a eviscerating email to my MP (will send before breakfast), concluding with the recommendation that he read today’s Lockdown Sceptic’s post, and that he gets through to the end, to the section titled ‘A Death in the family’, and that he thinks on that.
And of course I now feel a bit of guilt – in finding something funny that for a lot of people really isn’t funny at all. At all – as today’s posting lays bare.
My heartfelt condolences to whomever on here has lost their relative, and to their wider family.
Don’t feel guilt TJN. A clusterfuck of this magnitude has to be dealt with somehow, and laughter is very beneficial and healing. We should all do it too.
Just spotted this on Twitter, a march in London on 19th July against face masks. In case anyone is interested.
https://twitter.com/LeahButlerSmith/status/1282823786165940224?s=20
Personally I’d rather support Lockdown Truths case and boycott shops but some people may have an interest.
I don’t think that boycotting shops is the answer. Better to write to the major supermarkets and tell them you don’t support it and expect them to oppose it with the government.
Trying to write to them is like trying to get blood out a stone. I wrote to Waterstones in the run up to their 4 July reopening and got fobbed off with a condescending reply about safety and that Rishi Sunak had visited them. Hence why I’m not buying from them even online and if they go under they can’t blame Amazon for their demise.
Fantastic, what we need now is action, peaceful of course. But we need to stand up for ourselves and our basic hum rights and freedoms, I will be at the march on the 19th. I will also travel down to the march by train without a face mask attached! Let’s actually do something about this people, rather than just moan online!
Check out the comments on that Twitter thread. At least half seem to be pro mask – an interesting insight into their weird mindset. These are typical:
‘A march about wanting to breath deadly viruses over people in shops’ more like.
“For heavens sake, we’re asked to wear them for a couple of hours for the safety of others! Why are people hell bent on rejecting this? Doesn’t make sense to me, science has changed so we have to comply to save lives
Not much to ask is it??”
“surely even if there is only the slightest chance a facemask offers some protection however small it is worth doing for the protection of yourself and others…. in it together”
It’s amazing. These people would do anything they’re told, without complaint. They believe everything the government and media has told them.
This mindset doesn’t seem to be that much different from that of many people writing in the mainstream media; it’s not just Twitter. There was a short article in the Independent a few days ago which said the same thing as the lower 2 quotes, almost verbatim.
It’s not just the fear, but the whole “do your bit, in it together, save lives” message which has really got deeply ingrained in many people’s minds. It’s probably rooted in good intentions, rather than shallow virtue-signalling, in at least some cases, but in either case it’s completely devoid of any sense of proportion or understanding of the wider context.
The “science has changed” bit is what really depresses me. It’s like the only “science” which gets through to people is that which promotes fear, panic and the acceptance of restrictions!
This occurred to me earlier – this attitude undermines any argument in favour of freedom of choice and personal ability to assess risk, because it effectively says: we revoke your right to make your own decisions because your decisions will kill others.
Rather like the butterfly flapping its wings in the Caribbean, those of us who do not want to conform because we believe we should exercise our own judgement are causing a hurricane of death and misery elsewhere.
“We’re all in this together” is the slogan for collectivism enforced by law and by social shame.
Well, this all hinges on the notion of the asymptomatic carrier. The greatest manipulation of them all. To weaponise humans for carrying pathogens potentially harmful to others wether they are aware of it or not is the key. Now people believe by simply existing that they present a danger to society and must be controlled. That this has always been the case is irrelevant to them. This is the myth created.
More to the point “the science” hasn’t changed. The masks remain as ineffective as always and their benefit impossible to evaluate. It’s the policy that has changed which is why it can begin in two weeks and not now.
Someone did point out that Leah had attracted the entire 77th Brigade!
Well, numbers count. Join the march if you possibly can.
Can’t see the pro-maskers turning out to counter-protest.
Wearing masks isn’t to stop the virus it’s to stop you from being human. They’ve made laws where they can restrict your breathing. They do this because it won’t be long before they are forcing vaccines on you. You’ve lost the right to refuse medical treatment. Stand up to any pig that tries to fine you, stand up to the sheep who wear them unthinkingly and if you see Boris call him a fat bastard and you won’t be wearing a stupid fucking mask.
I agree with you on the vaccine/medical treatment – it’s the next shoe to drop. The government has ordered a massive amount of flu vaccine for this autumn and plan to roll it out to everyone over 50. This is the pretext to signing up a large portion of the population to the imminent vaccine trial, normalising seasonal vaccination among a subset of the population who would not ordinarily request it. Next stop will be forced vaccination of children to attend school. No, just No!
Just read a bit of an American article that says:
Increasing the number of people who get the flu vaccine is the best tool we have to protect hospitals’ capacity to treat cases of COVID-19 if a surge hits as expected in the fall.
So if you don’t take that vaccine, you’re still killing grannies with Covid.
In it together. Stay safe.
I haven’t had the flu for over fifteen years, and only two colds. I suspect like a lot of local people (and others elsewhere) I had something suspiciously like covid back in December but I survived. Perhaps they should find out how I did that? Hint: I have an immune system, perhaps they should study how that works?
Why has these latest set of developments become a Tory v other argument? I am not a Tory and am appalled by the latest and continual restrictions being forced on us. So would someone explain why this forum has become so entrenched in the “conservative” aspect? Why ruin a forum populated by right minded people by trying to pin polices tags? This is bigger that that.
Maybe I’m reading the posts differently, but I don’t see the “Tory vs the rest” element. Speaking as a lifelong Tory voter (no more), I do think it’s especially appalling that this is being done by an ostensibly Conservative government, but I don’t see any reason to believe that any other lot would have done differently/better if they’d been in power.
Statism, social micromanagement and expanding bureaucracy are normally the opposite of what you ought to be able to associate with a right of centre party. As far as I can see, the only relevance of the colour of the rosette is that it makes it worse, because you should be able to expect different.
There is a US-style left-liberal agenda at play here, through the media and social media, and evidently our current government has swallowed it whole without chewing, but that has nothing to do with party politics and everything to do with culture wars.
And terrifying incompetence – people completely out of their depth
That too.
I agree with you that this is not about Tory vs non Tory. I think the LS issues unites people who voted for different parties because it is about freedom and liberty, as well as society and the economy.
I also think that those who have voted Conservative are likely to be especially angry. Because this government has betrayed principles that such voters believed were core to conservatism. This may explain why those of us who are conservatives are quite vocal about our grevances.
The politicisation of debate and opinion relating to the pandemic/lockdown/regulations is one of the disturbing and weird things about the current state of the world! It seems like a self-reinforcing thing which is heavily influenced, as matt says below, by US politics, so people signal their political allegiance by mask-wearing (or not) for example.
Making the NHS a big part of the government propaganda (can’t really describe it in any other way, at least not printable) during lockdown, also must have played a big part in influencing the many people who otherwise would surely have been sceptical of a Tory government and their pet scientific advisors.
My politics are more or less left-leaning in a non-woke and non-Corbynist way, but since the lockdown I’ve been genuinely disgusted by the attitude of left-leaning media sources (not least the BBC) and am happy to put aside political differences and read articles in the Spectator etc. This catastrophe is a lot bigger than Brexit, nationalisation vs. privatisation – or pretty much anything else since the world wars and Depression – in its economic and social impact.
Ok, the face masks have defeated me. The bedwetters have won….. I’m close to giving up altogether
Insttead, Bazza, make a donation to this legal action and spread the word among your friends. They want you to give up – don’t.
https://www.lockdowntruth.org/post/face-mask-legal-action
its all pointless Rosie. They have won
Who are “they”?
What are you going to do now then?
How have they won?
Most of the day has been spent proving to ourselves that there’s absolutely no need to wear a mask because “they” can’t make you.
Do grow a pair and stand up for yourself – and others.
I have, making my piece today (day off from work), all my preps are made. Taking the dog for one last walk in the country, Tonight I go to sleep for the last time,
TONY. PLEASE SAY YOU ARE KIDDING. YOU HAVE FRIENDS HERE. YOUR DOG NEEDS YOU, TOO.
Thanks all, but I reached this point days ago, only hung around because of Gove’s statement – but as Bazza says they have won – too many morons. This is just the first step – masks will be full time like china.
My dog is 13, and she is provided for – my sister.
I won’t take any more of your time – got the day planned. Keep fighting – just didn’t want my death to go down to COVID – want it to go down to BASTARD BORIS
use your anger better, Tony. See my longer comment above
Tony,
When depressed it’s hard to think and everything is a mental fog. It’s also hard to imagine things ever getting better.
But how you feel isn’t the same as how things are. There is always hope, even if you dont feel it.
Depression requires help. Some people get medication and support via a GP (phone consultation obviously). More effective I think is a combination of talking therapy (counselling), exercise (like dog walking) and friends or family. We are now allowed to see friends and family so that’s progress isn’t it?
Eventually this nonsense will pass.
We are not supposed to be treated like this, we are not supposed to live without social contact. This government has massively damaged the mental health of so many of us and we need to give ourselves time to heal.
Tony, please hang on. All of this madness will pass. Your family, friends and dog need you. We are all here for you. We will get through all of this together.
Please don’t do it Tony. Don’t let them win. Don’t want to sound trite, but is there anyone you can talk to? Are there any therapists here that might be able to help?
Well, I don’t know if you are serious about taking your own life, but you could speak to the Samaritans on 116 123
They won’t try to stop you if you are determined to go down this route, but perhaps you might change your mind if you do.
It won’t solve your problems and will only cause distress to members of your family.
Please hang on in there, please – we will get through this.
Tony, we’re all here for you even as total strangers. I’m reading what you’ve just said with tears running down my face.
Please please please don’t make this the end of your life’s journey. The tyrants doing this to us are not worth it. We will get through this.
Tony,
We all feel bad about this. The more decent and self-respecting human being you are, the worse you will feel.
So you feel bad because you are a fundamentally decent and self-respecting human being. And frankly right now our society needs as many of those sort of people as it can get.
Over the coming days and weeks we will see that masses of other people feel as we do.
So see it through and all will be well.
Mate we are all feeling this from time to time, hang in there. It will get better – it has to!
I hope you don’t mean that, please stay strong we’re all here for you, even though we don’t know each other, believe me we care about you, and you’re dog needs you too.
You are not alone, the tide will turn. Please hang in there.
why you saying this? I think you’re trolling
so the people down voting me seriously think some asshole posts he’s gonna kill himself and we’ve all to believe him. No wonder we’re fucked
Biker, that’s really not helpful. Unless you know Tony personally you’ve no way of knowing how serious he’s being. As someone in whom the current horseshit has engendered thoughts of suicide I’m happy to give him the benefit of the doubt. I now realise that self-destruction is not the answer and I’ve chosen to resist the insanity, to fight for the return of rationality, however difficult that may be. But the Tonys of this world (and I suspect there are many) need our support and compassion, not our scorn. If we’re to win this war we need every warm body we can get. Just my tuppence worth.
Tony, you are a valued member of this community. The silent minority will have their day as they have done several times over the past four years. I know you feel powerless but please don’t give up. xx
Tony, this will pass, and the revenge will be sweet. Keep focused on those things that are important in life – the love and loyalty of your dog and the group of friends on here who want the best for you and all citizens in our country.
Tony, I suffered from very severe depression for many years; it blighted my existence and culminated in an attempt to end it all: unsuccessfully, as you will see.
What about your dog? (I had a much loved cat when I was at the bottom of the pit.)
Is your work utterly without value or compensation for your present distress?
What about staying online and using this site?
There are no easy answers to this awful condition as I know too well.
Tony, please don’t do it. Things will get better. I’ll be honest, I’ve had some pretty dark moments myself where I’ve genuinely considered packing it all in but I couldn’t do that to my family and bf. You have people who love and value you. Things are indeed not great right now but they could be a LOT worse so take solace and comfort in the things you can do – your dog’s walks, the fresh air, a good book or film. I recently bought a Nintendo Switch and I’m having great fun with it. Just little things like that to take your mind off the BS, they don’t have to be big things, because it’s dwelling on the BS that makes you feel worse. You must have a friend or relative whom you can talk to. And remember the silent majority is bigger than you might think.
Tony, I’m crying too. Please don’t. Just get through today.
Please let me explain. There are 3 basic animal responses: fight – flight – freeze. Depression and suicide are the “freeze” response gaining control. It is not easy, but it is possible, to switch one’s basic response into “fight” .
One needs to find one’s anger/rage instead as the base response and latch the mind and emotions together …. this will enable you to fight it instead and we have a route to fight it, via Lockdown Truth’s legal challenge. He’s calling for volunteers to donate and to spread the word.
There are other practical things you can do – we can do together.
Tony, the darkest hour is just before dawn. Things will get back to normal sooner than you think. Keep on keeping on.
Do not do that. Do not give up.Don’t give the bastards the satisfaction.
Tony please don’t end your life because of this ludicrous nonsense. The number of dissenters are increasing daily and eventually we will be too big to be dismissed. There’s help out there and a raft of support on here. Please hang on if only for the sake of your elderly dog who will be bewildered and confused without you and there’s no guarantee people will step in and look after him/her. Huge numbers of elderly pets end up spending their last days in a rescue which is incredibly sad.
That’s the spirit ! 🙂
Do not give up, resistance is not futile. You only have to say “no” one more time than they demand “yes!” and you win. Every day you say “no” to them is a victory. Savour that.
When are the REAL conservatives going to stand up, there must be some in the government with some courage, is there?
I’m not even go to try understanding the thinking behind mandatory face masks in shops. Almost nothing that the government has done since March has made any sort of sense (other than arguably the stamp duty cut). I have needlessly stressed myself out by asking questions begining with “why”.
Having said that, if we are making this law – what counts as a mask? For example if I get a dish cloth and string it over my face, does that count as a mask? An old sock perhaps?
Or is a mask an EU standard surgical mask?
Does the mask have to be effective against Covid? A lot of masks on sale are not.
Also does it have to be a new mask? If I find a 2 year old mask in a drawer somewhere does that count? How the heck is any of this enforceable anyway?
I should stop trying to make sense of things because basically things dont make any sense.
I think if face coverings are being mandated on such a wide scale for daily activities such as shopping, then they need to be as accessible as possible, meaning that any old rag will likely do. I especially don’t want to spend money buying masks I don’t want and am strongly opposed to, so I will be using scarves/old t-shirts when I am compelled to go into shops. If the government is mandating masks then they should be handed out for free or a small 5p charge at shop entrances but I dread to think the scale of plastic waste this horrendous policy will cause.
(Love the username btw, I’m a big Bond fan!) 🙂
Thanks poppy. Enjoy reading your posts.
I loved Bond as a boy, also the number 007 keeps coming into my life in various ways, to boring to explain here…😀
My father worked for the NHS as a buyer for hospital equipment and supplies. When they computerised, he was hugely amused that 007 was a bedpan.
This resonates a lot, so much frustrating trying to apply sense or logic to what they’re doing when there is none. As you say, masks a case in point, completely unenforceable, most will be completely ineffective and some will literally cause more harm… So so dumb, but hey Boris thinks he’s being seen to do something and it’ll keep the screaming media off his back for 5 minutes… until their next campaign.
Philosophical point, but when laws are passed which are knowingly unenforceable, does it weaken the law in general? Maybe in the extreme it leads to a situation where we only obey those laws which we have a risk of being caught by.
Of course it does. The more stupid and unenforceable laws we are expected to abide by, the more people begin to think about how easy it would be to ignore the sensible ones. Not helped by the spectacle of the police grovelling in front of baying crowds.
Generally over the years governments have done a fantastic job of criminalising large portions of the population, as well as turning them against each other rather than having them direct anger at the government. The more dumb laws you introduce, the more likely it is people will break laws – but then you have more things to fine people for.
Take the laws of the roads… speed limits and the never ending campaign to lower them when the focus should be 100% on teaching people to a higher standard about driving sensible, appropriately and carefully. By forever reducing limits and sticking cameras everywhere, it wears down resistance and critical thinking to dumb laws _and_ introduces a nice revenue stream. At the same time, they’ve made roads (in my opinion at least) a less pleasant experience for almost all road users, from pedestrians, to cyclists (i’m an avid road cyclist and bike racer), to motorcyclists (I was one for 10 years), to car drivers (I am as well) and commercial drivers (I’ve been one)… but instead of getting annoyed that the authorities continue to fuck up every road ‘improvement’ scheme they do, everyone just ends up screaming at each other instead.
I like the cut of your jib, Mark II.
Did you see this interview linked here a few days back? I think you’d like it as much as I did:
Matthew Crawford: the dangers of Safetyism
I’ve picked up his new book on Kindle as well, looking forward to reading it:
Why We Drive: On Freedom, Risk and Taking Back Control
James, stop trying to make sense of the mask issue – it’s not meant to make sense. It’s about control, about compliance. It’s not about public health, or a virus, those are but the pretexts, and dishonest ones at that. This is about following orders, about doing what you’re told. Resist. Say no.
It’s a “face covering”. Anything that covers your nose and mouth.
Tailored j-cloth would work.
When transport masks were first introduced, one DT journalist used an old sock during an internal flight.
I’d be tempted to use a sieve!
Posted this yesterday but have posted again (with a few additions) to show what we’re up against: I went back to work yesterday for the first time since we shut in March to prepare for our reopening next week. While it was great to see colleagues who I have only seen online for the best part of 3-4 months, yesterday’s session in my eyes quickly degenerated into an example how people have been terrified by the relentless government and MSM propaganda. The general observation now is how its young people who have overestimated the risk of Covid, I can confirm that with my own experience with the exaggerated swerving around, zealous observation of antisocial distancing and one mentioning that she hasn’t hugged anyone even her parents since this madness began. I couldn’t believe it! However the older ones were no better. Many colleagues were excessively santising their hands and even seemingly afraid of touching the doors. It’s terrifying that many were dismissive about people’s concerns about the NHS trace and test and I had to say that these are guidelines and not rules. They also didn’t seem to mind that we are losing our civil liberties and once they’re lost… Read more »