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by Will Jones
14 October 2020 9:15 AM

Labour Calls For National Lockdown

Covid-19: Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer calls for circuit breaker - BBC  News

When Labour leader Keir Starmer last week questioned whether local lockdowns were working because 19 out of 20 had failed to reduce cases we should have guessed it was the local bit he was taking issue with, not the lockdown. Tory lockdown rebels heroes had been wondering out loud why Labour kept criticising the Government’s measures but then supporting them or abstaining, and now they know. It’s because they think they don’t go far enough.

Unhappy northern Labour council leaders likewise are not complaining about their areas being locked down per se. They’re complaining about being singled out and treated differently, and about the level of financial support. Many would be happy with another national lockdown with generous handouts.

So Keir makes his move. Seeing the opportunity to outflank the Government by siding with the SAGE scientists (who, it emerged on Monday, called for a national ‘circuit breaker’ lockdown on September 21st) and with public opinion (which continues to favour stronger restrictions, though by a shrinking margin, and often not so much in practice), the Labour leader has come out in favour of a two week lockdown.

The plan is backed by Graham Medley from SAGE and Matt Keeling from the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling (SPIM), who claim in modelling to be published later today that between 3,000 and 107,000 deaths could be prevented by January if the Government imposes the measure. Talk about a confidence interval!

The Spectator has published the full text of Starmer’s statement.

The number of Covid cases has quadrupled in the last three weeks. Cases may be doubling as quickly as every seven to eight days. There are now more people in hospital with Covid than on March 23rd when we went into national lockdown. And while the number of cases is rising more sharply in some areas it is increasing across all regions of the UK and in all age groups.

We know from bitter experience and great personal loss where all this leads. Three things are now clear: the Government has not got a credible plan to slow infections. It has lost control of the virus. And it’s no longer following the scientific advice.

The SAGE minutes from September 21st – published yesterday – underline this. They warn that: “A package” of “stringent interventions” is now urgently needed. SAGE also says that: “not acting now… will result in a very large epidemic with catastrophic consequences.”

They warn that: “as in the first wave… the burden of a large second wave would fall disproportionately on the frailest in our society [and] on those on lower incomes and Black, Asian and minority ethnic communities.”

Among their recommendations is a ‘circuit breaker’, a short period of national restrictions that SAGE believes would bring the R-rate down and “re-set the incidence of disease to a lower level”. SAGE’s advice is that this could set the “epidemic back by approximately 28 days or more”.

They’re very clear that: “The more rapidly these interventions are put in place the greater the reduction in Covid-related deaths and the quicker they can be eased.” The Prime Minister has not acted on this advice.

Doubling every seven or eight days.

Now where have we heard that before? That’s right, on September 21st when Witless and Unbalanced presented us with their Graph of Doom predicting nearly 50,000 cases per day by October 13th. How’s that getting on?

From CEBM

Absolutely nowhere near. There were 17,234 cases yesterday – roughly a third of the predicted amount – and the trend has been almost flat for a week. The Government has claimed it was the introduction of the Rule of Six on September 14th and the 10pm curfew on September 24th that has kept numbers down – the latest iteration of the “cases down, lockdown working, cases up, more lockdown needed” strategy that can never be wrong. Why then are the most restricted areas the worst affected? And why have cases started to fall in Spain without closing bars or imposing harsh lockdowns? They can’t answer that question, but neither do they seem to care anymore.

Source: Government

Looked at by specimen date, the curve is even flatter (note that the last four days will go up in the coming days). Has it “quadrupled in the last three weeks”? Three weeks ago on September 22nd 4,926 “cases” were reported, so the number has trebled not quadrupled in that time. Is it now “doubling every seven days”? A week ago 14,542 “cases” were reported. So it’s gone up by 19% in the past week and appears to have slowed down. Where is Keir getting his data from as it doesn’t appear to be from the Government?

Maybe “cases” will shortly start going up again, but that is no excuse for misrepresenting the current situation. Are they likely to though? Here are the positive rate curves for the UK, Spain and France, with little sign of runaway growth, so you’d have to bet against it.

Source: Our World in Data

Starmer continues:

In the last three weeks [Boris has] introduced two sets of far less stringent restrictions – one on September 22nd, one yesterday. Both times the Prime Minister has promised that his measures will control the virus and drive down the R-rate. But we now know this is not supported by the evidence.

We also know that SAGE has concluded the £12 billion test and trace system is only having – in their words – “marginal impact”.

And we also know that in 19 of the 20 areas that have been under local restrictions for over two months infection rates have gone up, not down. There’s no longer time to give the Prime Minister the benefit of the doubt. The Government’s plan simply isn’t working. Another course is needed.

That’s why I am calling for a two-to-three week ‘circuit break’ in England in line with SAGE’s recommendation.

A temporary set of clear and effective restrictions designed to get the R rate down and reverse the trend of infections and hospital admissions.

This would not mean closing schools. But if this happens imminently, it can be timed to run across half-term to minimise disruption. But a circuit break would require significant sacrifices across the country.

It would mean only essential work and travel. That everyone who can work from home should do so. Non-essential offices should be closed. Household mixing should be restricted to one household except for those who’ve formed support ‘bubbles’. And all pubs, bars and restaurants would be closed for two-to-three weeks – but compensated so that no business loses out because of the sacrifices we all need to make. It should also mean the UK Parliament moves to remote working.

A circuit break would also provide an opportunity to reset and to rectify some of the mistakes the Government has made. In particular to get a grip on testing and hand over track and trace to local authorities. A circuit break will have to be accompanied by extensive support for jobs, businesses and our local economies.

He concludes by pledging his party’s votes so Boris could push the ‘circuit breaker’ through by overriding his own MPs (42 of whom voted against the 10pm curfew yesterday, including Graham Brady, John Redwood and Chris Green, who resigned as a Government PPS over his opposition to lockdown).

Politically this a shrewd move by Starmer, but it is disappointing for lockdown sceptics as it reinforces Boris’s message that he is taking the middle course between lockdown and “let it rip” and will probably result in him being even stricter – as well as Sadiq Khan playing follow-my-leader and plunging London into a completely unnecessary ‘tier two’ lockdown. Boris has already conceded that he will consider a ‘circuit breaker’ if his tier plan fails.

‘Circuit breaker’? More like ‘economy breaker’, ‘back breaker’, ‘hope breaker’.

Hancock Dismisses Great Barrington Declaration

Meanwhile, Health Secretary Matt Hancock in the Commons yesterday dismissed the Great Barrington Declaration and its strategy of focused protection of the vulnerable while building up herd immunity. He repeated the now standard counter-arguments, which appear to have become Government orthodoxy.

Some have set out this more relaxed approach, including in the so-called Great Barrington Declaration, and I want to take this argument head on because on the substance, the Great Barrington Declaration is underpinned by two central claims, and both are emphatically false.

First, it says that if enough people get Covid, we will reach herd immunity. This is not true. Many infectious diseases never reach herd immunity, like measles and malaria and Aids and flu, and with increasing evidence of reinfection, we should have no confidence that we would ever reach herd immunity to Covid, even if everyone caught it. Herd immunity is a flawed goal without a vaccine, even if we could get to it, which we can’t.

The second central claim is that we can segregate the old and the vulnerable on our way to herd immunity. This is simply not possible.

Steve Baker tries to have it both ways and says the Government “must find an alternative strategic plan between the Great Barrington Declaration and where we are today”, though offers no insight into what that might be. The Mail quotes Dr Mark Woolhouse, Professor of Infectious Disease Epidemiology at the University of Edinburgh, disputing Hancock’s points, though agreeing herd immunity is still some way off.

Prof Woolhouse said: “Going forward, we would expect more people to be exposed at some stage or another and that immunity would be important, whether natural or through a vaccine. Herd immunity is the way this thing ends, one way or another, it is critical to what happens to COVID-19 in the long term. Whether he (Mr Hancock) calls it a goal or not, it will end with herd immunity.”

Prof Woolhouse described the Health Secretary’s comments about it being impossible to segregate the old and the vulnerable as a “tremendous fallacy”.

“I don’t know, or how Matt Hancock knows, it’s not possible, we have to do it to some degree because those are the people who are at risk of getting seriously ill and dying,” he said.

“We should be paying much more attention to protecting the vulnerable and elderly. I worry that that statement is impetus to give up on the idea of protecting people who need protecting. I worry that fallacy is being promoted in this brief statement.”

Ross Clark in the Spectator ably counters the arguments against immunity.

To date, the World Health Organisation has recorded 38 million confirmed cases of COVID-19. In a search of medical literature, the Nevada team found five cases of documented reinfection. If infection with COVID-19 did not give the vast majority of us immunity from reinfection – at least for a few months – it is hard to believe that it would not be obvious by now, with vast numbers of cases being recorded.

It is nonsense for Hancock to compare SARS-CoV-2 to malaria, measles and Aids – they are completely different types of virus (malaria isn’t even a virus). And we do acquire immunity to flu as well as to other coronaviruses and cold viruses, which is why they keep mutating and appear with different strains with differing degrees of virulence.

Meanwhile, Nadine Dorries MP tweeted: “There is no such thing as herd immunity.”

If herd immunity existed, measles and chicken pox would have been wiped out years ago. There is no such thing as herd immunity. https://t.co/THC1DC1mJa

— Rt Hon Nadine Dorries (@NadineDorries) October 13, 2020

There is no such thing as herd immunity.

Nadine Dorries is a Health Minister.

Vaccine Hopes Fade

Dr Chris Whitty contemplates what a wait-for-a-vaccine strategy looks like without a vaccine. (It’s actually Dr Beaker from Gerry Anderson’s Supercar, but the resemblance is uncanny.)

If we can’t become immune through infection why do we think we can become immune through a vaccine? Does the Government not understand how vaccination programmes work? That’s the question it isn’t answering. There was, however, a candid admission from Boris Johnson on Monday that a vaccine may never come, a point reiterated by Chris Whitty later in the day. Responding to a question from Steve Baker, Johnson said: “SARS took place 18 years ago, we still don’t have a vaccine for SARS. I don’t wish to depress him, but we must be realistic about this. There is a good chance of a vaccine, but it cannot be taken for granted.”

So, er, shouldn’t we learn how to live with the virus then, just as we have with seasonal flu?

Reinforcing this message, Kate Bingham, head of the UK’s Vaccine Taskforce, told Sky News last night that the first wave of COVID-19 vaccines are unlikely to end the pandemic, and that uncertainties remain over how much protection they give and for how long. Sky then went to Professor Jonathan Ball, a vaccine expert at Nottingham University, who claimed “at the moment we have no protection against COVID-19 at all” and says antibody levels fall quickly after infection so if the same happens with a vaccine it may only protect for a month or two. Has he not been following the science on T-cell immunity?

Try telling that to the Swedes, Professor.

Meanwhile, WHO chief Tedros Ghebreyesus was also dismissive of herd immunity on Monday, labelling it “scientifically and ethically problematic”. The BBC has more.

Speaking at a news conference on Monday, Dr Tedros argued that the long-term impacts of coronavirus – as well as the strength and duration any immune response – remained unknown.

“Herd immunity is achieved by protecting people from a virus, not by exposing them to it,” he said.

“Never in the history of public health has herd immunity been used as a strategy for responding to an outbreak, let alone a pandemic.”

The WHO head added that seroprevalence tests – where the blood is tested for antibodies – suggested that just 10% of people had been exposed to coronavirus in most countries.

“Letting COVID-19 circulate unchecked therefore means allowing unnecessary infections, suffering and death,” he said.

Tedros’s comments came in the same week that the WHO’s Head of Emergencies, Mike Ryan, said they want to try to avoid “massive lockdowns that are so punishing to communities, to society and to everything else”. WHO COVID-19 special envoy David Nabarro also said on Thursday that: “We in the World Health Organisation do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus. The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.”

So they don’t want lockdowns, which are disastrous for humanity and especially the poor, but neither do they support herd immunity, which is supposedly too far off, despite all the research showing lower thresholds due to T-cell cross immunity, and the evidence from countries such as Sweden, Belarus and Tanzania and the US state of South Dakota. There is also the curious case of the East Asian countries, which, as Ross Clark points out, have had far lower death rates regardless of the measures they took.

And if we’ve never in the history of public health used herd immunity as a strategy for responding to a viral outbreak, how does Tedros believe we managed to cope with the global flu pandemics of 1957-58 and 1968-69? Don’t recall a lockdown or a vaccine being part of the solution then.

Where does this leave the Government’s strategy, particularly as realism about a vaccine sets in? Nowhere at all, as far as I can see. If the new restrictions are not about waiting for a vaccine, which the Government now seems to accept is a distant prospect, what are they for? Boris has surrendered the dubious high ground of “the Science” with its remorseless call to lock everything down to Keir Starmer, leaving the Labour leader with the unanswered question of what to do when the ‘economy breaker’ ‘circuit breaker’ is over. Do another one? Then another? But by eschewing the heretical science of herd immunity and focused protection Johnson has left himself with no science at all – just a dog’s breakfast of purposeless restrictions with no hope to offer.

Until the Government accepts that more harm than good is being done by ongoing restrictions, and that we should follow Sweden’s proven strategy, we are doomed to be stuck in an endless, stop-go loop of economic destruction, where every rise in “cases” results in new shackles and every drop off is just taken as proof that the latest are working.

Stop Press: An eagle-eyed reader spotted the following nugget in the SAGE minutes released on Monday:

Overall, the evidence base on which to judge the effectiveness and harms associated with different interventions is weak and so there is considerable uncertainty around the estimates presented here.  

Even SAGE admits they’re making it up as they go along.

False Positives and False Outbreaks

We’re publishing today a new piece by consultant pathologist and regular Lockdown Sceptics contributor Dr Clare Craig, who has looked at what the false positive rate might mean for care homes.

Outbreaks of Covid in care homes appear to have spiked in September in the UK. Does this mean we will see a resulting spike in deaths? This paper explores the possibility that a significant number of the alleged outbreaks in care homes could be based on false positive test results. The continuing absence of systemic cross-checking of alleged positive results against established clinical and diagnostic evidence such as loss of smell and distinctive CT chest scans remains deeply disappointing. At an absolute minimum, anyone who receives an alleged positive Covid result should be retested from scratch.

Failure to do this produces multiple problems.

Diagnosing false positive test results as cases in care homes has the effect of increasing workload for the homes, instilling fear in residents, staff and relatives and artificially boosting the case numbers. Large numbers of elderly, frail patients may well be wrongly labelled as having Covid. When this is combined with their high risk of dying anyway, it is possible that multiple deaths could be wrongly attributed to Covid. The impact of these false positive Covid cases in care homes could easily have skewed the overall data on deaths from Covid, impacting negatively on policy making.

Well worth reading in full.

Contact Tracing Worse Than Useless

Great Barrington Declaration co-author and Stanford Professor of Medicine Jay Bhattacharya has co-authored a new article on the problems with contact tracing.

Throughout the COVID-19 epidemic, public health authorities have promoted contact tracing as a key tool to combat the spread of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Nearly every country infected by the virus has adopted some version, though with evidently mixed results given the global spread of the epidemic. Our purpose in this essay is to make the case that, contrary to conventional public health wisdom, most of the hope placed on contact tracing efforts to control the epidemic is ultimately futile. It may be useful when the number of cases in an epidemic is very small and only if it is applied aggressively without regard to privacy rights. In cases that do not fit that description, contact tracing may make an outbreak worse.

This is probably why a 2019 WHO study on measures against pandemic influenza found that from a medical perspective “contact tracing” is “not recommended in any circumstances”.

Worth reading in full.

Round-Up

  • “Is Boris Johnson finally ready to challenge Sage’s coronavirus ‘group think’?” – Illuminating analysis from Camilla Tominey in the Telegraph quoting a “senior Conservative” and a “cabinet minister” saying Boris’s meeting with Heneghan et al was an epiphany making him much more willing to question the scientific advice
  • “COVID-19 will probably become endemic – here’s what that means” – Good piece from Hans Heesterbeek, Professor of Theoretical Epidemiology at Utrecht University, in the Conversation
  • “White House Embraces Herd Immunity in Latest Push to End COVID-19 Lockdowns” – Trump administration underlines its commitment to herd immunity and focused protection, in Newsweek
  • “Sunetra Gupta interview: the scientist who says herd immunity is the answer” – The Times finally catches up with Prof Gupta. Good interview by seasoned pro Andrew Billen
  • “A lockdown on dissent” – Good piece from Joanna Williams in spiked
  • “SAGE advice – Whitty vs. No. 10 – Triangulation issues” – Politico‘s Alex Wickham takes us through the SAGE minutes dump. Lots of good stuff about the ineffectiveness of various measures, including outdoor mask wearing and the 10pm curfew
  • “How UK ‘Track and Trace’ Data from Restaurants is Being Harvested and Sold On” – Disturbing if preditable, from 21st Century Wire
  • “Corona – figures and fakery” – Latest from Sean Walsh in Comment Central arguing the Government is treating us like children
  • “The Great Hysteria and The Broken State” – New book from former economist in the Government of Victoria Sanjeev Sabhlok, who quit his position in order to protest the “unrelenting attacks on human liberty in the state of Victoria in Australia”
  • “Millions told to shield in first wave will not be told to stay home” – Report in the Telegraph suggesting the Government is actually moving further away from a focused protection strategy
  • “Yes, Boris, this is the tipping point – for our trust in you” – Great article from Allison Pearson in the Telegraph pointing out the reality doesn’t match the fear
  • “SAGE warned Boris Johnson that 10pm curfew would have ‘marginal’ effect the day before it was imposed” – From the Telegraph. So what was the point? What is Boris playing at?
  • “‘Drastic rise’ in Malawi’s suicide rate linked to Covid economic downturn” – Is the Guardian starting to realise lockdowns hurt the poorest most?
  • “‘The pub industry is on the verge of collapse’” – Worrying interview with a publican in spiked
  • “Ignore this so-called science, the masks don’t work” – I take apart a recent Canadian study claiming masks halve case numbers in Conservative Woman
  • “Overstretched – that’s how our police see themselves. So how have they found time to hound a young Geordie journalist?” – Dan Hannan in Conservative Home takes issue with the police’s investigation of Darren Grimes
  • “David Starkey investigated by police for ‘stirring up racial hatred’ in Darren Grimes interview” – Another ludicrous police witch-hunt. The Free Speech Union is defending Starkey, just as it is Grimes

Theme Tunes Suggested by Readers

Just one today: “Mersey Blues” by Strawberry Walrus.

Love in the Time of Covid

We have created some Lockdown Sceptics Forums, including a dating forum called “Love in a Covid Climate” that has attracted a bit of attention. We have a team of moderators in place to remove spam and deal with the trolls, but sometimes it takes a little while so please bear with us. You have to register to use the Forums, but that should just be a one-time thing. Any problems, email the Lockdown Sceptics webmaster Ian Rons here.

Sharing stories: Some of you have asked how to link to particular stories on Lockdown Sceptics. The answer used to be to first click on “Latest News”, then click on the links that came up beside the headline of each story. But we’ve changed that so the link now comes up beside the headline whether you’ve clicked on “Latest News” or you’re just on the Lockdown Sceptics home page. Please do share the stories with your friends and on social media.

Woke Gobbledegook

We’ve decided to create a permanent slot down here for woke gobbledegook. Today, a bombshell for the campaign against Lord Nelson at the National Maritime Museum. The letter “proving” he supported slavery has been shown to be a forgery. The Mail has the details.

Horatio Nelson’s original letter to Simon Taylor is lost, presumed destroyed but, unknown to the anti-abolitionists, the Admiral had kept a ‘pressed’ copy — a sort of early carbon copy — in his rarely-seen private files, which are now in the British Library.

Comparing this pressed copy with the newly discovered document reveals that Taylor and his anti-abolitionist cronies made no fewer than 25 changes to Nelson’s original letter before they rushed it into print after the Admiral’s death to try to influence the vote in parliament.

Many of the changes were minor and editorial but overall were designed to rally the dead hero’s support for their lost cause.

In the key passage, Nelson did not write ‘against the damnable and cursed doctrine’ of slave trade abolition, as the doctored version had it. 

The original wording was ‘against the damnable cruel doctrine’ and he was referring to the consequences of freeing slaves to face possible starvation and massacre in the chaos that would follow.

While a diplomatic man who clearly had no wish to pick fights with powerful anti-abolitionists, Nelson was relatively enlightened by the standards of the day.

When a young man, Nelson had sailed to the Arctic with Olaudah Equiano, a freed slave who became a hero of the abolitionists, and whenever Nelson had an opportunity to personally intervene on behalf of enslaved people, he took it. 

As he did when freeing 30 galley slaves held in Portuguese ships in 1799, or employing freed slaves in his household such as Fatima, a young girl discovered in a French warship, who became his mistress Emma Hamilton’s maid.

Nelson even lent his support to a scheme, soon squashed by the planters’ lobby, to replace slave labour in the West Indies with paid labour from China. 

As so often, the woke conception of “social justice” is at odds with natural justice.

“Mask Exempt” Lanyards

We’ve created a one-stop shop down here for people who want to buy (or make) a “Mask Exempt” lanyard/card. You can print out and laminate a fairly standard one for free here and it has the advantage of not explicitly claiming you have a disability. But if you have no qualms about that (or you are disabled), you can buy a lanyard from Amazon saying you do have a disability/medical exemption here (takes a while to arrive). The Government has instructions on how to download an official “Mask Exempt” notice to put on your phone here. You can get a “Hidden Disability” tag from ebay here and an “exempt” card with lanyard for just £1.49 from Etsy here. And, finally, if you feel obliged to wear a mask but want to signal your disapproval of having to do so, you can get a “sexy world” mask with the Swedish flag on it here.

Don’t forget to sign the petition on the UK Government’s petitions website calling for an end to mandatory face masks in shops here.

A reader has started a website that contains some useful guidance about how you can claim legal exemption.

And here’s a round-up of the scientific evidence on the effectiveness of mask (threadbare at best).

The Great Barrington Declaration

Professor Sunetra Gupta, Professor Martin Kulldorff and Professor Jay Bhattacharya – actual scientists, unlike Devi Sridhar

The Great Barrington Declaration, a petition started by Professor Martin Kulldorff, Professor Sunetra Gupta and Professor Jay Bhattacharya calling for a strategy of “Focused Protection” (protect the elderly and the vulnerable and let everyone else get on with life), was launched last week and the lockdown zealots have been doing their best to discredit it. If you Google it, the top hits you get are two smear pieces from the obscure Leftist conspiracy website Byline Times, and one from the Guardian headlined: “Herd immunity letter signed by fake experts including ‘Dr Johnny Bananas’.” (Freddie Sayers at UnHerd warned us about this hit job the day before it appeared.) On the bright side, Google UK has stopped shadow banning it, so the actual Declaration now shows up in the search results, although discussion of it has been censored by Reddit. The reason the zealots hate it, of course, is that it gives the lie to their claim that “the science” only supports their strategy. These three scientists are every bit as eminent – more eminent – than the pro-lockdown fanatics so expect no let up in the attacks. (Wikipedia has done a smear job.)

You can find it here. Please sign it. It’s now closing in on half-a-million signatures.

Samaritans

If you are struggling to cope, please call Samaritans for free on 116 123 (UK and ROI), email jo@samaritans.org or visit the Samaritans website to find details of your nearest branch. Samaritans is available round the clock, every single day of the year, providing a safe place for anyone struggling to cope, whoever they are, however they feel, whatever life has done to them.

Shameless Begging Bit

Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the past 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. Doing these daily updates is hard work (although we have help from lots of people, mainly in the form of readers sending us stories and links). If you feel like donating, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links we should include in future updates, email us here. (Don’t assume we’ll pick them up in the comments.)

And Finally…

Previous Post

False Positives in Care Homes

Next Post

Letter From a Care Home Whistleblower

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2.2K Comments
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Stefarm
Stefarm
5 years ago

1st the worst

7
-4
Sir Patrick Vaccine
Sir Patrick Vaccine
5 years ago
Reply to  Stefarm

Piers Corbyn on setting up anti lockdown groups #OurMovement Action Groups

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3hC7nEp-v4

youtube com/watch?v=t3hC7nEp-v4

5
-2
Sir Patrick Vaccine
Sir Patrick Vaccine
5 years ago
Reply to  Sir Patrick Vaccine

Is the ‘cure’ worse than Covid? Driven to despair by lockdown, two of Professor Angus Dalgleish’s colleagues took their own lives… and compelled him to join a growing rebellion against Cromwellian restrictions
Cancer specialist says he has been lost two colleagues to suicide in two weeks 
One ‘killed himself as result of profound despair at loneliness created by Covid’
Prof Angus Dalgleish says focus on Covid-19 is ‘distorting healthcare priorities’
Daily Mail news/article-8824833/Lockdown-despair-drove-two-Professors-lives.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8824833/Lockdown-despair-drove-two-Professors-lives.html

0
0
Jpeg
Jpeg
5 years ago
Reply to  Stefarm

“Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling” … should someone tell them this isn’t influenza?

3
0
Rowan
Rowan
5 years ago
Reply to  Jpeg

Who says it is isn’t influenza? There is no proper evidence to suggest otherwise.

9
0
VeryLittleHelps
VeryLittleHelps
5 years ago
Reply to  Jpeg

The medical definition of flu is an “Influenza like illness” or ILI. Coronavirus is definitely an ILI.

4
0
caipirinha17
caipirinha17
5 years ago
Reply to  Jpeg

Funny, we seem to have a Deputy CMO who is a specialist in… influenza… who better to convince us that it’s absolutely definitely not that?

2
0
OKUK
OKUK
5 years ago
Reply to  Stefarm

You’d be sickened to be second.

1
0
Sir Patrick Vaccine
Sir Patrick Vaccine
5 years ago
Reply to  Stefarm

Great Barrington Declaration co-author: 

Dr Jay Bhattacharya, co-author of the Great Barrington Declaration: “The current lockdown strategy seeks herd immunity. That is the end point. The question is how much death and suffering will there be in the meantime?”

By the way there is appalling clip of Hancock dismissing the Great Barrington Declaration

14 Oct 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivVuUqLDqAk

3
-1
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  Sir Patrick Vaccine

Hancock is not qualified to so arrogantly dismiss these esteemed individuals who have knowledge Hancock worked in the cesspit called the city of london before politics

2
-1
smileymiley
smileymiley
5 years ago

Bah! Missed by a squeak 😱

2
-1
The Spingler
The Spingler
5 years ago

Almost!

2
-1
FenTyger
FenTyger
5 years ago

Close…. This is worth a read:-
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/a-medic-s-case-against-another-lockdown

8
0
Jo
Jo
5 years ago
Reply to  FenTyger

Anyone got a copy of this to avoid paywall? Thanks

0
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Jo

It’s an excellent article. Worth reading in full. Here are some bits:

‘Do no harm’ are three words all doctors must follow in the course of their work. These words make me convinced that Covid-19 lockdowns are the wrong approach, and a growing number of doctors are on my side.

…. If lockdowns were a prescription drug for Covid-19 treatment, the FDA would never have approved it.

…. In August, the Lancet published an analysis of data from 50 countries. The researchers found that full lockdowns were ‘not associated’ with decreased mortality from Covid-19.

…. if a physician were to prescribe a lockdown to a savvy patient who asked about the risks, the physician would have to disclose that depression, suicide, homicide, overdose, wife-beating, and starvation are potential side effects. Rare is the patient who would agree to take such a pill, which brings me to the other pillar of medical ethics: autonomy. Physicians do not force treatment on competent, non-consenting patients…..

8
0
Awkward Git
Awkward Git
5 years ago

Not even on the podium.

Found this from March 2020:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-stocks-shortselling-idUKKBN21811E

Someone made a hell of a lot of money just before everything shut down.

Insider dealing trials coming up?

Good thing – on the Daily Wail’s website, not one complimentary comment about Boris or Kier.

Very hostile and sceptic.

13
0
karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Awkward Git

Reuters behind a paywall

0
0
Awkward Git
Awkward Git
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

I got the link by just clicking, no paywall when I tried.

Try this one:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/stock-market-short-sellers-billions-profit-coronavirus-economic-decline-tech-2020-3-1029022585#

3
0
Nobody2021
Nobody2021
5 years ago
Reply to  Awkward Git

There were a few memebers of US congress being investigated for potential insider dealing a few months ago for doing just this.

1
0
Cruella
Cruella
5 years ago
Reply to  Awkward Git

While this makes me feel better, knowing that people aren’t fooled it also makes this all more depressing because we still can’t change anything. I mean the casual dismissal of the Barrington Declaration in governement, simply shrugged off in the most idiotic manner indicates there’s nothing we can do. Even the WHO asking nations not to lockdown isn’t enough to compel the politicians. There seems to be no way out until they decide it is over. This has to be about something else.

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0
HoMojo
HoMojo
5 years ago
Reply to  Cruella

Quite. As posted above https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=R8OMTkmyKEA&app=desktop

1
0
eva
eva
5 years ago
Reply to  Cruella

There are things we can do. We can change things. We are going to have to give it our all. Obviously writing to MPs etc. We can also refuse to comply with the restrictions and all associated fines etc. We need to engage, persuade and explain to people what is really going on at every opportunity and illustrate why these restrictions are utterly disproportionate. I was heartened to hear about the man running the gym who said he would defy the lockdown and stay open. We need more of this type of steady defiance as well as persuasion. If we all refuse to comply, they cannot keep it going. To me, this whole covid debacle is an illustration of how ‘the pen is mightier than the sword.’ People comply because they believe the rhetoric and propaganda. We have to make an almighty effort to clarify, refute, reframe and persuade. We have to get out there and engage in person, on Twitter, on the Guardian blogs where everyone believes the polar opposite to us (and where I am currently being pre-moderated for saying a week or so before the Barrington Declaration that ‘we should support and shield the elderly and vulnerable… Read more »

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-2
eva
eva
5 years ago
Reply to  eva

Another thought I had recently and wanted to post on here was this. I am not putting it very well, but in regards to making people feel guilty/criminalised for perfectly normal, human behaviour -e.g. ‘stay at home, dont kill granny,’ etc., using guilt to manipulate particularly the young for needing to socialise etc.

Frustrating this perfectly natural drive in the young to socialise is real cruelty. It will inflict a psychological wound. This precious time will not come back and its harder later…

A parallel for this guilt tripping occurred to me… despite being a Catholic convert, I am aware that in the past, Catholic teaching of sin and guilt for perfectly normal behaviour, i.e. sexuality etc was used to control behaviour. People ended up with really warped attitudes to sexuality etc.

Its a nasty manipulation.

If anyone can summarise this guilt tripping into a snappy soundbite, referencing religion that would make it easier to call out! Society nowadays is so secular that anything associated with religion is smeared by association!

8
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  eva

Good points! It’s definitely been a very effective PsyOp. It’s become so blantant that people are seeing it for what it is.

It’s important not to feel disempowered. Passive disobedience wherever possible is a good start.
Demonstrate genuine normality – wear your smile. Look people in the eye.

Talk to those who’ll listen. They might already be awake but need to know they’re not on their own.

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-1
Nick
Nick
5 years ago
Reply to  eva

Quote From the Spectator article. This puts to bed any idea that lockdown is saving granny.

“ I have personally admitted dozens of elderly people to hospital with illness resulting from social isolation and neglect. Some were literally starving to death. One patient, in her eighties, lived in a retirement community but relied on family members to feed her meals. When they were socially distanced (banned) from the premises, she couldn’t feed herself and her health quickly deteriorated. Another patient, a 92-year-old woman, simply gave up on life and started refusing her meals once her family stopped coming to visit. Both these scenes were catastrophically inhumane and will stick with me for a long time. Neither is captured in the government’s Covid-19 statistics.”

These people are being harmed and killed by the government.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/a-medic-s-case-against-another-lockdown

4
0
eva
eva
5 years ago
Reply to  Nick

The abuses being inflicted on every section of society, from imprisoning kids on their first time away from home at university to criminally denying the elderly the love and comfort of their families in their last months and years of life, as well as the smashing of businesses which often constitutes people’s life’s work, denying care to the sick… the insane incursions into every aspect of people’s lives and liberties etc etc gives me a chill… it reminds me of the abuse psychopaths inflict on their victims before they murder them…

3
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Cruella

Watch UK Column!

2
-1
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  Cruella

There is something we can do that is stop simply complying with this nonsense https://www.remove-the-tory-government.org

0
0
RyanM
RyanM
5 years ago

6th is just 5th last place… Oh, well.

0
0
karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  RyanM

1st was all that mattered to the Greeks.

2
0
Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago

Stop the lockdowns by refusing to be tested.

RefuseTesting-tn.png
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-1
Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

Do you have a fighting fund that I can contribute to?

I don’t feel like I’m doing enough, but other than hacking away at posters, I don’t know what to do for the best.

6
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

You’re doing a great job!

2
0
nickbowes
nickbowes
5 years ago

So Labour want to continue the trashing of livelihoods, jobs and dreams – what a surprise !
Kier is probably owned, like the idiot Tories, by the Davos set. Young people party and rebel !

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0
Awkward Git
Awkward Git
5 years ago
Reply to  nickbowes

Says it all along with being ex-head of the CPS.

8
0
exiled off mainstreet
exiled off mainstreet
5 years ago
Reply to  Awkward Git

As part of the instigatgion of the criminal Assange persecution in this role, he has already marked himself out as an enemy of the people. He is a restoration of Bliar’s neutering of the opposition, creating a one party state in Britain.

1
0
VeryLittleHelps
VeryLittleHelps
5 years ago
Reply to  nickbowes

https://www.technocracy.news/trilateral-commission-usurping-sovereignty/

3
0
Jim
Jim
5 years ago

Can anyone help me if I’m asked at or before a job interview why I’m not wearing a mask?
I didn’t write down on my application I had any disabilities so I’m wondering if I’ve got myself in a pickle and am lowering the chance of being offered a job?
Thank you!

4
0
Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

If you feel you have to say anything, you can use low mood.

My advice would be to present them with a printout of my discriminatory challenges document and say nothing more on the subject.

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-1
matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

Unfortunately I think this is the wrong decision and that the only actual course of action is to wear a mask if asked to (@Jim – have they told you you need to?). Having ticked the “no disabilities” box, you’ll be on shaky ground, I would have though and showing them legal documentation at an interview is immediately going to mark you out as litigious.

If it were me, I think this is one of the very few circumstances where I would bite the bullet and wear a mask. I can’t think of another circumstance in fact.

7
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Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Sadly, I agree.

1
0
Jim
Jim
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

There was no indication or anything about wearing a mask but, you know, these days the world has tilted on its axis!

2
0
matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

Well, they’re not compulsory in offices, so hope for the best. Personally, I wouldn’t want to make any hiring decisions without seeing the person’s face in an interview – but then again, I’m not pro-mask.

You may very well not be asked to wear one, but I’m sorry to say that, – in my opinion – if you want the job, you probably should if they ask you to. Only you can know how much you need/want this particular job.

5
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Suey
Suey
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Thre is no disabilities box. Illegal to ask.

2
0
matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Suey

Yes and no. Assuming there was one, it will probably have been part of a survey relating to candidate diversity. In addition, several companies have a policy of always offering an interview to people with disabilities. As long as you aren’t obliged to provide the information, but you’re given the opportunity to volunteer it, it’s fine and not uncommon practice.

1
0
Suey
Suey
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Fair enough. I just wonder why this same person is back again, having been given masses of advice by many of us previously. Perhaps he didn’t get the response he was trying for and is having another go.

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-1
matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Suey

I can understand the anxiety. A job interview is a stressful thing anyway and having to balance a principled stand against masks with your livelihood makes it more so.

1
0
Jim
Jim
5 years ago
Reply to  Suey

What’s wrong with that Suey? Just scroll past. I have lost my business and am crossing my fingers for a part time cleaning job. I don’t want to f**k it up and I also don’t want to wear a mask. Have you ever asked and clarified and reclarified a question?????

0
0
Old Maid
Old Maid
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

I apologise, of course. Nothing’s wrong with that.

And nothing’s wrong with a cleaning job; you were the one yesterday saying “it’s only” a cleaning job. I wish you luck in your interview, and my advice stands, for what it’s worth: wear a lanyard as a courtesy and, if they ask, tell them you are exempt and explain that your inability to wear a mask would not prevent you doing the job. If they ask WHY you are exempt, reply courteously that you don’t wish to discuss it further.

Or, of course, you could wear a mask if you wish, if you think it might be more likely to get you the job; then decide that droplets and aerosols from cleaning fluids getting on to the mask are causing you issues so you can’t wear one while doing the job. Your choice entirely.

Again, I wish you luck, and please do come back and let us know how you get on.

0
0
Sophie123
Sophie123
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

But a disability that might prevent mask wearing (eg panic attacks, asthma) isnt one I would think of to fill in on an employment form (wheelchair user, registered deaf or blind) as under normal circumstances they would not require any special accommodation in an office-type setting.

2
0
stewart
stewart
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Why not claim that wearing a mask provokes anxiety and that you’ve been advised not to wear one.

That isn’t a disability anymore than, say, an adverse reaction from taking anti-malarial medication as a preventative measure.

Under normal circumstances, you don’t have a disability. If they force you to do something unnatural, like wear a mask, then you have an adverse physical reaction.

Perfectly legitimate.

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0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  stewart

Isn’t a common qualification “the ability to work under pressure”?
Being susceptible to anxiety wouldn’t do you any favours!

0
0
Nsklent
Nsklent
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Or wear a loose scarf if it less oppressive.

1
0
Chris John
Chris John
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Asthma isn’t a disability and a valid medical excuse

2
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Victoria
Victoria
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

Great advice but I won’t use it at an interview. Low mood: not what we want. Presenting discriminatory challenges: Stay clear this person will be difficult

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0
Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago
Reply to  Victoria

You are of course right. I was in too much of a rush to be “helpful” to think it through. Employers don’t generally want people who buck authority.

2
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

I wouldn’t fancy employing anyone who put “low mood” on an application form!

0
0
Barney McGrew
Barney McGrew
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

Unfortunately, I don’t think anyone really considers mask exemption to be ‘real’ – it is only there as a theoretical, notional counter to hypothetical claims that some people cannot wear masks. In practice, you are expected to wear a mask, and if you don’t, some weak-minded people will genuinely wish to avoid you – not great for a job interview!

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Patrick
Patrick
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

I’d say “my circumstances have changed since I wrote the application.”
In other words, I was fine yesterday, but not today!
A decent employer will be aware of The Equality Act 2010.
Ask them! Good luck.

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0
Jim
Jim
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

No, it’s just a part time cleaning job!

1
0
Two-Six
Two-Six
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

as long as you can maintain social distance you don’t need to wear one anyway.

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0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

Maybe comply if the interview requires it and keep one in your pocket when working, in case the muzzle inspector is doing his rounds.

Hopefully this is all academic and won’t be a problem! The interview should be antisocially-distanced anyway and most cleaners work alone, so are automatically distanced.

1
0
HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

You don’t have to be disabled in anyway to be exempt. The government guidelines make it quite clear that even “distress” from putting on and/or removing a f/c is sufficient. In fact you don’t have to prove anything to anyone, your reason for not wearing one, if you believe it to be valid. Explain you are entitled to medical privacy. If they refuse to take your application further they could be discriminating against you. Check out the LaworFiction website, as they have some excellent advice. Print out, make or obtain an exemption lanyard if you feel it gives you more confidence (but you don’t have to.) And just start as you mean to go on

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0
Barney McGrew
Barney McGrew
5 years ago
Reply to  HelenaHancart

But that’s what I’m referring to above. In theory, it’s a legal exemption, but in practice it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.

0
0
HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
5 years ago
Reply to  Barney McGrew

In theory the government should have carried a medical risk assessment of mask wearing by the general public before “mandating” it with threats of fines, but it didn’t. I wrote to my MP for this information but he couldn’t provide it, saying mask wearing was being implemented because it “may” do some good in the wider community, blah, blah. I know various organisations have asked the government directly, and again NO evidence has been provided. Therefore under Article 2 of the Human Rights Act 1998, which holds up (for the moment) against the gaslighting “rules” the government are voraciously making, they have to have exemptions, should harm come to anyone forced to wear one, which they could follow up with a lawsuit. Anyone can exempt themselves if they believe they have a “reasonable” excuse. The fines are in place for those who refuse outright to wear one, and who hang long enough to be issued with a fine. So, as you say, it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.

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0
Two-Six
Two-Six
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

The exenptions are there because it’s The Governments way of ensuring they aren’t going to get busted for implementing an illegal medical experiment. They can say masks are “optional”. So avoiding falling foul of human rights law, the Nuremberg convention on medical experiments. They know this. Like people say you don’t need to prove anything to anybody or declare anything. You can just not wear one.

It’s that simple.

Do you really want to work for a bunch of charlies that insist on you wearing a face nappy anyway?

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0
wat tyler
wat tyler
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

You just say you don’t wear a mask and if they ask why say you have a medical condition .If they continue pressing you say you had something personal happen to you when you were young and it causes you anxiety and you don’t wish to talk about it .

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0
Keen Cook
Keen Cook
5 years ago
Reply to  wat tyler

Yes. Thats right. It can also increase anxiety & you can say that you will be anxious about the interview (because you want the job – positive sign for potential employer.) and you find wearing mask makes communication v difficult. Go for trust etc.

3
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  wat tyler

It’s illegal for them to ask!

1
0
Suey
Suey
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

You again? Previous days’ advice no good for you? They can’t ask you. Wear a lanyard.

2
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Jim
Jim
5 years ago
Reply to  Suey

Why are you being so disrespectful and horrible?
No, maybe the advice wasn’t enough.
Maybe I need more and I need reassurance because I have lost my business and have no income at the moment.
Maybe, Suey, you’d do well to keep schtum instead of inflicting unnecessary hurt with your barbed comments and being an all round awful person needless commenting?

2
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Old Maid
Old Maid
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim

I’ve apologised to you further up – or down, depending on which way you read this.

0
0
Bob
Bob
5 years ago

Labour, Conservative and all the other MPs can simply fck off. I’m not listening get to any of them ever again and nor will I vote for any of them.
12 out or 650 voted to cancel the CV legislation. 12…..

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0
hat man
hat man
5 years ago

This looks terrific:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/V6G_evJyVQ4

I’m wondering if there’s anyone on this site who could do a translated version with an English translation shown on screen. There is some technical vocabulary so it would require a German speaker with advanced skills.

1
0
Kevin 2
Kevin 2
5 years ago
Reply to  hat man

You can go to settings on the video and then switch on auto-translate, which then gives English subtitles. Not perfect but gives you a reasonable idea of what is being said.

0
0
hat man
hat man
5 years ago
Reply to  Kevin 2

Thanks, I’ll try it and get back to this site with the result if it looks acceptable.

0
0
Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago
Reply to  hat man

I just tried copy-pasting the subtitle transcript into translate.google.com, but the results were pretty bad.

0
0
Cheshire Andy
Cheshire Andy
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

DeepL (deepl.com) is far better for translations than any Google spyware crap.

0
0
hat man
hat man
5 years ago
Reply to  Kevin 2

Unfortunately that just produces word-for-word translation which often comes across as gibberish. I can follow it only because I know what’s being said in the original, and I think a non-German speaker would really struggle.

0
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Kevin 2

German subtitles only!

0
0
Silke David
Silke David
5 years ago
Reply to  hat man

Hello hat man, I am a native German, watched the video.
She is presenting information which is widely available.
Looks like she is an a level student giving a presentation to the AfD political party.
The AfD is the known as rightwing party which gained a lot of seats in the Bundestag and in local parliaments in the last election and has been questioning the current policies, which is on one hand good, but also gives MSM the angle that opponents (like Querdenken) are politically on the right.

1
0
hat man
hat man
5 years ago
Reply to  Silke David

I am aware of what you say, except where you claim the information is widely available. Of course it is not made available to the public via the MSM, who would not cast doubt on the PCR test as she does. That is the point.
Whether she’s talking to the AfD or say the Revolutionary Marxists of Ostfriesland ist mir egal!

1
0
exiled off mainstreet
exiled off mainstreet
5 years ago
Reply to  Silke David

“right” or “left” is not really applicable anymore. It is systemic versus anti-systemic. Obviously, Starmer, a criminal based on his Assange role, cannot be considered to really be “left”. The person does appear to be somebody around 20 or so, and is certainly more advanced than an “a level” student, or it would not be posted. The salient fact is that debunking the validity of the testing from a sceptical perspective.

0
0
JohnC
JohnC
5 years ago

In Hancock’s speech he says: “Many infectious diseases never reach herd immunity, like measles and malaria and Aids and flu”. This show the ignorance of the man, saying malaria is an infectious disease, when it’s a parasite passed from mosquitoes to humans, but as far as I am aware not from human to human. Measles we do have herd immunity due to the vaccine, that’s how vaccines work in a population. AIDS is also not infectious in the sense that the general population can acquire it without specific behaviour patterns.

55
0
mhcp
mhcp
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

Hancock has just made the day for all those opposed to 3-in-1 injections for kids. Clearly since there is no herd immunity for measles we don’t need to vaccinate them. Since isn’t that the point of mass vaccination?

Why isn’t anyone calling him out on this idiocy?

What I’m seeing is a complete lack of understanding about science and the scientific method in general. Or theorist arseholes getting their 15 minutes of fame because they can use an exponential function.

And this is the same nation that birthed the Industrial Revolution

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0
Andrew Fish
Andrew Fish
5 years ago
Reply to  mhcp

There seems to be a complete lack of understanding of how vaccines actually work. Numerous times I’ve seen people arguing that we have to wait for a vaccine because there is no immunity. God knows what they think a vaccine actually is – unicorn tears, presumably.

Obviously, when it comes to the Industrial Revolution, it’s worth noting that this was almost entirely driven by the “middling sort” – the political and aristrocratic elites were largely ignorant of the science then too (with the odd exception) and tended to look down on the “new money.” Hence, successful industrialists building properties like Cragside and Castle Drogo to show they were the equals of the landed gentry.

16
0
Kf99
Kf99
5 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Fish

Interesting. I who loathe “stately homes”, loved Cragside. Not sure it will survive within the newly woke NT.

6
0
Caroline Watson
Caroline Watson
5 years ago
Reply to  Kf99

Quite. Lord Armstrong was an arms dealer!

2
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  mhcp

Getting rid and burying⚰️ this government is vital for our health and prosperity and Labour must be permanently out of office

8
0
chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  mhcp

Here’s a Hancock worth listening to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VN8zH366M8

scary thought that music like this may never happen again

To call Matt Hancock a divot would be unfair to divots

3
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  mhcp

If you watch this:
https://unherd.com/2020/10/england-has-always-been-two-nations/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups

It’s very clear the North of England birthed the Industrial Revoloution.
Unfortunately, we are governed by a completely different country, ie the South of England.

1
0
chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

I always thought it was rather odd that the Norman French who bequeathed us the southern English were actually French Vikings, quite different from the English Vikings who gave us the north, or a lot of it. Meanwhile us Saxons just quietly get on with things.

0
0
Philip Westwood
Philip Westwood
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

No it started in Coalbrookdale in Shropshire.

0
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  mhcp

Indeed. For the first time in my life I am considering not attending the Remembrance Day service at my parish church. I cannot in all conscience claim to be remembering those who fought for our freedom when I am surrounded by people willingly giving up their own freedom for no good reason.

2
0
Cicatriz
Cicatriz
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

And AIDS destroys the immune system. The clue is kind of in the name…

13
0
matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Cicatriz

And, given that you can never get rid of the HIV virus, by definition nobody can develop immunity to it. You either have it or you don’t have it. Another completely ridiculous example. Go Hancock!

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0
p02099003
p02099003
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

Actually I should have said HIV not AIDS, as AIDS does not necessarily result from an HIV infection.

6
0
Cicatriz
Cicatriz
5 years ago
Reply to  p02099003

That’s true, do you think Handcock knows any of that though?

4
0
matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

This came up yesterday. Honestly, I don’t know where the man is getting this crap from – it’s hard to believe that anybody who has any understanding of virology, immunology or general medicine could possibly have given him the sound bite, so I have to assume he’s made it up himself. Which sounds about right, given the level of idiocy it displays.

I’m convinced what’s needed is a more aggressive stance informed by actual science. Hancock and his ilk should not be allowed to get away with spouting this kind of anti-scientific rubbish and having it repeated by a cadre of innumerate, scientifically illiterate political journalists (and fellow ministers and back benchers). His statement is flat out wrong and he’s chosen irrelevant examples to illustrate his “point”.

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0
matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Oh, and re measles – we had herd immunity a long time before the vaccine was introduced. That’s why it was almost always only caught by and passed between the very young, who hadn’t previously been exposed (and for whom it is the least concerning). Herd immunity isn’t expected to eliminate a virus, just to significantly suppress the spread. The very fact that, pre-vaccine, adult cases were rare is a good demonstration of herd immunity in action. The vaccine acts as a bolt on to try to reduce those adult cases (and severe childhood cases) even further.

To apply the same example to SARS-CoV-2, once we are at a level of herd immunity, you shouldn’t expect nobody to catch it, just that those few who do mostly won’t notice it and the occasional co-morbid patient who suffers badly from it will be indistinguishable from someone suffering similarly from the raft of ILI causing viruses already going around. The numbers will reduce, but they’ll almost certainly never disappear.

20
0
VickyA
VickyA
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

If you look at the history of mortality and measles since in England and Wales , there were around a 570 deaths a year in the 40s. But after that it had already reduced to around 90 (1958-67) when the vaccine was introduced in 1968. A lot of reductions pre vaccine were due to better food, healthcare and housing, not vaccines. There seems to be a pattern in data manipulation perhaps?
I don’t want to sit on any anti vaccine platform as everyone has a right to make their own decisions, but I know what decision I will make about a COVID vaccine knowing more of the history of development of them. Anyone interested should check out Dr Judy Mikovits.

15
0
Christopher
Christopher
5 years ago
Reply to  VickyA

Exactly , Engineers , Plumbers and Electricians are one of the reasons for improved health in the last century along with greater numbers being raised out of poverty. Putting this improvement in general health of the people in the western world down to vaccines is palpably false.

14
0
Keen Cook
Keen Cook
5 years ago
Reply to  Christopher

Exactly. waterborne diseases are still big killers in developing world.

6
0
John
John
5 years ago
Reply to  Christopher

Ironically it could have been these same improvements that precipitated the polio epidemics. Polio is spread through the orofaecal route. This was endemic but children didn’t necessarily succumb as they developed immunity as they grew up with it. When sanitation improved this community immunity was diminished leaving children open to developing the disease, there was no vaccine and there was an increased need for iron lungs. Mary Berry had polio as did Ian Drury. I was fortunate that the oral Salk vaccine was available for me.

4
0
Nigel Sherratt
Nigel Sherratt
5 years ago
Reply to  John

Salk’s alturism quite a contrast to the current lot. Our star batsman at school had a caliper (and a runner in inter-school matches, he did his own running otherwise).

4
-1
chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  John

Interesting point! Yes I knew a few people who’d had polio. I had the vaccine, and DTAP and smallpox because that’s pretty much all there was when I was young (missed out on the BCG because I was supposedly immune to TB). IMO there’s a world of difference between a tried and trusted vaccine for a dangerous disease and a lot of the crap they pump into children nowadays. I have to wonder if that many vaccines destroy the immune system and make more vaccines necessary. Just the same scam as high carb low fat diets based on wheat, soy and industrially produced omeha 6 seed oils which make you ill so you need statins, diabetes drugs etc.

3
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  VickyA

I thik you’ll find a lot of nasty diseases, diptheria being an obvious one, were already disappearing pre-vaccine because of the extensive slum clearance and council house building in the 1950s.

2
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Endemic coronoaviruses have seasonal transmission and waning immunity. They reinfect typically in a timescale of 24mo in all but children. I doubt this one will be much different. Lifelong immunity is very very unlikely. We never had her immunity to measles, all we had was a very young age of infection and a very high seroprevalence reflecting that most people had been infected by their teens. About 9/10 people are in the same position for varicella (chickenpox). I personally believe adults who have not had it, should be vaccinated. It kills about 30 adults a year.

1
-2
chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Quite!

I spent a large part of my life catching every cold, flu and food poisoning bug going. Then I finally learned to eat properly. In the last fifteen years I haven’t had the flu and only about two colds. Then last december I caught something suspiciously covid-like to which I evidently didn’t have much immunity but I managed to blat it without too many consequences. Hail the all-conquering immune system. Feed it well (and get out in the sun)

7
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  chris c

Have you heard of the Wim Hof Method? It’s a breathing exercise, I started doing it to increase lung capacity for sports, which it helps with, but it’s also supposed to boost the immune system.

1
0
Cheshirecatslave
Cheshirecatslave
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

He’s wrong about flu too. The strains that caused lethal pandemics are still around but kill very few people. If an uncontacted tribe ,say in the Amazon were exposed to flu, it would likely kill them because of no herd immunity.

11
0
matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheshirecatslave

Yes.

I think the reason I’m so irritated by this statement is because – in a strong field – I think it’s the stupidest, most ill-informed statement made by any public figure during this whole sorry episode.

10
0
Sophie123
Sophie123
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

with you there.

1
0
Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

God, and look at the competition for that title!

7
0
Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

He’s a cretin.
Sadly, so are almost all if those he’s addressing.

6
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Ann

He’s an unbelievably arrogant cretin!

2
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

I would happily headbutt Hancock and the fatass dope Johnson

0
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Press headlines this morning should have read:
“HANCOCK THINKS MALARIA IS CAUSED BY A VIRUS!”

They had a great opportunity to crucify him.
Maybe next time. (Not holding my breath)

5
0
tonyspurs
tonyspurs
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

Just as I thought

SmartSelect_20201014-104017_DuckDuckGo.jpg
47
0
Nsklent
Nsklent
5 years ago
Reply to  tonyspurs

That made me laugh out loud.

2
0
Stefarm
Stefarm
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

How the fuck is aids or hiv infectious.

Don’t remember mark Fowler spreading it around Albert square

4
-1
Suey
Suey
5 years ago
Reply to  Stefarm

The sainted Princess Diana could have told you that the general population was at no risk whatsoever, and she was no Mensa member.

6
0
Christopher
Christopher
5 years ago
Reply to  Stefarm

it’s infectious if you put the pee pee in the poo poo . 😉

7
-1
John
John
5 years ago
Reply to  Christopher

Also if infected blood is transfused into another person, Isaac Asimov was one such person.

3
0
mj
mj
5 years ago
Reply to  John

or using dirty needles

1
0
Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  mj

Well, lockdown would prevent all that, eh?

2
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  mj

I would say infection via transfusion and dirty needles is basically inoculation.

0
0
matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

Because it’s a parasite, not a virus.

9
0
Basileus
Basileus
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

Clearly there are factual inaccuracies in his speech. How does one start proceedings for ‘Misleading the Commons’.?

9
0
Andrew Fish
Andrew Fish
5 years ago
Reply to  Basileus

How about trying to get a recall petition going in his constituency?

7
0
Silke David
Silke David
5 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Fish

As some one who used to live in his constituency and now lives in the neighbouring, I say “Good Luck” …..

3
0
Awkward Git
Awkward Git
5 years ago
Reply to  Basileus

Parliamentary Standards Commissioner responsible for this sort of thing but not interested in doing any investigations. I tried.

The Speaker of the House might get involved if he said it in Parliament.

4
0
Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

Response to Handsy from 2 of the 3 GBDers:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8836185/Matt-Hancock-says-NOT-true-herd-immunity.html

Virus experts savage Matt Hancock for claiming herd immunity is ‘a flawed goal’ and thousands will die without tough restrictions – as they say ‘after eight months it is shocking he does not have a basic understanding’

13
0
Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Tyneside Tigress

” as they say ‘after eight months it is shocking he does not have a basic understanding’”

Witty van tam vallance and tge rest are as responible for not schooling him as he is for acceoting a position of responsibility beyond his ken.

6
0
matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

But why does he feel qualified to make this unmitigated bullshit up on the spot?

It always used to bother me during Hancock’s half hour that he would refer to clinicians in the NHS as “colleagues”. Maybe this is the answer,, though – maybe he thinks that being Health Secretary is the same as having a medical degree.

8
0
Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Healthtech board member Hancock.
Colleagues is a words used by hateful politicians here. Coukd he be referencing common puropse colleagues. Inclusive bullshit language.

3
0
Patrick
Patrick
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Dr Hancock, why does shit come out of my anus, and shit comes out of your mouth?

0
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Simple – hubris!

0
0
Awkward Git
Awkward Git
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

He’s definitely an idiot of the highest grade.

But look at the people around him, unfortunately he’s one of the brighter ones.

5
0
Two-Six
Two-Six
5 years ago
Reply to  Awkward Git

I think Nadine Dorreys is more clever than Handy Cock

4
0
Will
Will
5 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

I am not sure which of them is being damned with faint praise in that statement.

1
0
Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

My dog is. He doesn’t spout crap from his mouth.

2
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  Awkward Git

There is no one in this government that is intelligent,they make corbyn and dopey Lammy & Abbot appear intellectual

0
0
iansn
iansn
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

I can vouch for that as I have had it twice. Take the tabs for 3 days and you are OK.

2
0
PaulC
PaulC
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

DM has a great article today (surprised Will missed it) ‘Virus Experts Savage Matt HANDCOCK FOR CLAIMING HERD IMMUNITY IS ‘A FLAWED GOAL’…..

6
0
GCarty80
GCarty80
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

“AIDS is also not infectious in the sense that the general population can acquire it without specific behaviour patterns.”

Which is most likely the reason why test/track/trace is fairly easy when dealing with STDs more generally.

4
0
Caroline Watson
Caroline Watson
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

No disease does reach total herd immunity on its own; it just ceases to be an ‘epidemic’. Vaccine doesn’t create total herd immunity either; the only disease that has been fully eradicated is smallpox. I think we’ve pretty much eradicated anthrax in cattle too, but by a policy of mass slaughter, which isn’t exactly appropriate in humans!!
When I was a child, there was no measles vaccine and it broke out occasionally in schools. I had it just after I started which was common; little children who had largely been at home with mothers and grannies and limited social contact were suddenly brought together in one place. Measles is seen as a “childhood illness’ but that was because adults had usually had it as children. Chicken pox, particularly, was seen as a desirable thing to have as a child because it was much more dangerous in adults.
Natural total herd immunity isn’t possible because the herd isn’t static; there will always be new people. But, if a certain level of immunity hadn’t been established to viruses before vaccines were invented, we’d have been wiped out as a species centuries ago.

14
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  Caroline Watson

Was talking about this with an old boy in my village who said as a lad he was made to play with a neighbour’s child who had measles, specifically so he’d catch it young. Imagine that nowadays! His parents would probably be sent to prison.

3
0
Suitejb
Suitejb
5 years ago
Reply to  Cranmer

Indeed. When I had German measles as a child my friend’s mother sent her round to stay and she slept in my bedroom!

2
0
chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  Cranmer

Oh yes we had “chickenpox parties” and probably for mumps and measles too when I was young. In my case unneccesary, just going to school gave me all three within a year. Oh God I just had a flashback to the smell of sick and Dettol in the school corridor.

1
0
Steven F
Steven F
5 years ago
Reply to  Caroline Watson

Caroline,
Good summary. Thanks.

0
0
Keen Cook
Keen Cook
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

Malaria is due to a mosquito injecting the poor recipient with the wretched parasite that takes up residence in the blood cells. It is not an ‘infectious’ disease in the way a respiratory disease is. The mozzie is the carrier. Hancock seriously doesn’t know what he’s talking about. But we knew that.

8
0
John
John
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnC

The parasite is in the red blood cells, and stays there. The symptoms can erupt at any time.

3
0
Nigel Sherratt
Nigel Sherratt
5 years ago
Reply to  John

Yes, my father’s from Surabaya (5th Indian Division Signals) came back from time to time throughout his 90 year life.

5
0
Will
Will
5 years ago

Towards the end of yesterday’s discussion someone asked where the “vulnerable” stand in relation to Covid. I hope fellow sceptics don’t think me conceited but I thought I might repost my reply:

We are vulnerable as a family: my daughter is having chemotherapy and a blood therapy designed to bleach her B cells plus she is on methotrexate, so all in all she is thoroughly immuno compromised, but we don’t need anyone else to curtail their existence for our safety, thank you very much. It is an absolute doddle to shield/ protect ourselves and we are worried about colds, never mind sars-cov-2.

83
0
karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

Good for you Will, best wishes to your daughter and the rest of your brave family.

37
0
Jenny
Jenny
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

My parents (and many of their friends) are in their 80s. Rabidly anti-lockdown and think it is totally absurd. With all the “killing Granny” nonsense, we rarely hear Granny’s voice.

57
0
The Filthy Engineer
The Filthy Engineer
5 years ago
Reply to  Jenny

As ever, the “elderly” are the forgotten cohort.

14
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  The Filthy Engineer

Actually they’re not forgotten, they’re the excuse.

7
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Well said! I think the more frightened ones are the 1960s boomer generation. People in their late seventies and beyond are not so bothered because they grew up in the post war era when relative hardship was the norm and you didn’t expect things handed to you on a plate. My mother, in her late seventies, has been completely calm and sang-froid through this whole nonsense, and we have been ‘interpreting’ the rules on visiting etc with a nod and a wink.

4
0
JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  Cranmer

I think the more frightened ones are the 1960s boomer generation. 

Strangely, I think the more frightened ones are the 80s/90s/00s. About as valid a thought.

3
0
Philip Westwood
Philip Westwood
5 years ago
Reply to  Cranmer

My wife and myself will be 72 just before Christmas and we think exactly the same as your mother.

1
0
Caroline Watson
Caroline Watson
5 years ago
Reply to  Jenny

Absolutely. My 89 year old father is vehemently opposed and delights in sending me articles by Peter Hitchens and Richard Littlejohn.

24
0
Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  Caroline Watson

Three loud cheers for him.

6
0
chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  Caroline Watson

Throughout the lockdown when I went for my daily exercise I’d see several eighty years olds and beyond defiantly walking their dogs. Not taken in unlike many younger ones

7
0
Andrew Fish
Andrew Fish
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

I don’t see that as conceit – you undoubtedly speak for a great many people who despise what is being done effectively in their name.

18
0
Mark
Mark
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

My 83 year old parents feel just the same. They just want to enjoy what is left of their remaining active lives and are more than capable of judging their own level of acceptable risk.

The last thing they need is 42-year old Matt Hancock pitching up and destroying their lives on the basis of “saving granny”.

30
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  Mark

I suspect it’s because Hancock can’t understand that an 83 year old can’t reasonably expect another 30 or 40 years of life as he can.

2
0
Jamie
Jamie
5 years ago
Reply to  Mark

My dad too. He’s 80, a passionate lefty, believes it’s all totally disproportionate. Speaks to his health visitor about the state of hospitals and reports back to me that they’ve essentially been empty since April. He smells a rat.

Another thing. My cousin is a nurse in Blackpool, she was giving care to a gentleman unrelated to covid, the man was tested for covid, it came out positive. She asked the doctor whether she should self isolate. The doctor replied ‘no, you can go home, it will be fine’

Go figure?

0
0
Cheshirecatslave
Cheshirecatslave
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

I’ve had poor health all my life and had to try and avoid infections. I am strongly anti lockdown. I wish to make my own decisions. I choose to go to church and see close friends while avoiding crowds and confined spaces. Being shut up in isolation is a living death.

29
0
Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheshirecatslave

Are you the only ‘vulnerable’ person with that much sense? From the way the Fascist crap merchants tslk, anyone would assume that you are.

7
0
Bella Donna
Bella Donna
5 years ago
Reply to  Ann

Amazingly it’s those who are more vulnerable who create the least fuss. Once again it’s the virtue signallers causing the problems for the rest of us.

8
0
Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

Well said. My father-in-law turned 80 this year and still lives up the Democratic People’s Republic of Scotland.

He’s fed up with lockdowns, is fed up that he can’t go to concerts, can’t go to the library to do his research and can’t really go anywhere due to the dire public transport around his area and beyond.

So much for saving the elderly but what’s being done to them is cruel.

22
0
Judith Day
Judith Day
5 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

I sympathise with your Dad. I still have library books due to be returned at the end of March; we were told to keep them ‘for the time being’.
I really miss my weekly visits to the Library, and the plays and concerts at our two excellent local theatres.

10
0
Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago
Reply to  Judith Day

Same here. I also go to concerts and haven’t been to the British Library for months now. I will have to go at some point for work reasons but my pass is expiring and can’t pre-book tickets at the moment.

6
0
Jay Berger
Jay Berger
5 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

It’s a very woke virus.
And Gen Y and Z are the most vulnerable to it in that regard.
Which fits in with the general decline of educational standards and the IQ since Boomers and Xers were educated.

4
0
stewart
stewart
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

I wish the BBC would interview you and put you on the news instead of all the, sorry, bedwetters – can’t help it..

9
0
HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

I’m on Methotrexate for RA, so I know what a trial that can be, let alone the other meds your daughter has to take. I too, take full responsibility for my health, and I’m avidly anti-lockdown. When did we all suddenly become so unable to have autonomy over our own bodies that the government feels it has the right to interfere into our lives and our privacy for a virus, in circulation in any other year, would hardly be noticed. Wishing your daughter well with her treatment.

11
0
Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  HelenaHancart

In Wales, the government owns our bodies and can chop them up the instant our breath is out of them.

4
0
2 pence
2 pence
5 years ago

History repeats itself.
In 1919 the media and her controllers launched a psychological assault on the Australian population pertaining to the imminent appearance of a deadly disease that was headed for our shores, known initially as the pneumonic influenza epidemic.
The public became erratic with the media feeding the fear and the states acted not much better with all borders closed and non-essential travel ground to a halt.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1308428022182109185.html

6
0
Nic
Nic
5 years ago

I post here regularly about brazil, no lock down got loads of stick.
Glad to say they held there nerve deaths continue to fall as do infections I said last month it will be over in brazil by xmas and I’m still saying that will be the case.herd immunity has nearly been reached.

23
0
Will
Will
5 years ago
Reply to  Nic

Great news!!!

10
0
Nic
Nic
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

Yes it it is media were all over brazil a few months ago .nothing said now similar to sweden which is never mentioned. I think if we have another lockdown we must resist

12
0
Victoria
Victoria
5 years ago

T&T

Hide.png
15
0
PastImperfect
PastImperfect
5 years ago

The Australian Defence Force is trying to give itself unlimited, without time restrictions or sunset clauses, access to call an Emergency and to bring FOREIGN ARMED MILITARY ONTO THE STREETS OF AUSTRALIA.

https://www.facebook.com/AustraliansForAssange/photos/a.123927632382700/365159241592870/

8
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  PastImperfect

It’s treason simple as

5
0
karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago

I’m still waiting for a Downfall vid with Boris in the Horseguards Bunker yelling down ‘phones with ever more insane lockdown instructions to Covid Marshal Gaulieters who either aren’t there or know the game is up . . .

Meanwhile hanckrock, witless, unbalanced and the rest of the grizzled gang are hunted down by loyalist Sceptics to face trial.

The SAGE having been listed in order of the famous Pack Of Cards with ferguson as Ace Of Spades.

11
0
DJ Dod
DJ Dod
5 years ago

As others here have noted, there is no opposition. The entire political class are complicit in this disaster, but presumably they think that they will be able to distance themselves from the damage they have caused before the next general election.

I’m hoping there will be an independent candidate in my constituency, because I don’t see how I’m going to be able to vote otherwise…

34
0
Victoria
Victoria
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

Yes either independents or the new political parties.

11
0
Jonathan Palmer
Jonathan Palmer
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

If you are allowed to vote again

15
0
Andrew Fish
Andrew Fish
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

The trouble is they think we have no choice – both sides are counting on dumping the blame on the other and assuming no third force can come through between them. We got into a similar situation in 1982, when Labour were still seen as the wreckers of our economy, but the Conservatives seemed to be making it worse – the SDP were polling at over 50% prior to the Falklands conflict. Arguably if the Argentinians hadn’t been trying to bolster their own nationalist base history could have been very different.

7
0
Victoria
Victoria
5 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Fish

Agree. However they are in for a big shock. There will be enough anger and misery for voters to be disillusioned, also enough facts and court cases to use against them.

People like us will stand up as follows:
1) standing as independents or for one of the new political parties
2) vote for any party but Labour or Conservatives – ballot spoiling won’t help

I will do everything in my power to oust my Conservative MP that has failed dismally to protect his constituents. The fight is on!!!!

13
0
Julian
Julian
5 years ago
Reply to  Victoria

SDP could be an option. Or UKIP if that’s your bag.

4
0
Kf99
Kf99
5 years ago
Reply to  Julian

David Kurten looks good. But he needs a party. He’s not going to be joining the SDP anytime soon. It’s all so fragmented.

4
0
Kf99
Kf99
5 years ago
Reply to  Kf99

Oh, interesting. Why didn’t Lawrence Fox join that?

How about a “Heritage-SDP alliance”

2
0
Paul M
Paul M
5 years ago
Reply to  Victoria

My MP, James Daly, has been voting against the measures recently – he was one of 42 last night. Sadly, voting for him (if ever we are allowed to) would mean voting for a party that has destroyed the country

Once the truth comes out, I’m hoping for big political upset to sweep the lot of them out.

Fingers crossed for Simon Dolans injunction hearing tomorrow, though I suspect the courts will have been nobbled

8
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  Paul M

A high court challenge to the government of Spain was nobbled recently. I suspect it will happen here too. Where’s Gina Miller in all this? (joke.)

1
0
Saved To Death
Saved To Death
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

I really doubt they are worried about the next general election.

7
0
Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago
Reply to  Saved To Death

Perhaps there won’t be a next general election.

It’s been done before.

4
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

SDP I joined in April and don’t regret

2
0
TheBluePill
TheBluePill
5 years ago
Reply to  Adam

I’ve been toying with joining the SDP for some time. However, I will struggle to join any political party unless it has a manifesto pledge to fully investigate and prosecute the perpetrators of the 2020 shit show.

4
0
Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  Adam

What’s their take on the current lunacy?

3
0
mattghg
mattghg
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

I spoiled my ballot paper last time. Not sure how I can escalate that any further!

3
0
Two-Six
Two-Six
5 years ago
Reply to  mattghg

crap on it

5
0
chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

Yes use it to wipe

0
0
Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

How about standing yourself?
Sceptics’ party. Crowdfund the deposits. Contest every seat. Make a Coalition for Sanity with the Monster Raving Loonies.

6
0
James Bertram
James Bertram
5 years ago
Reply to  Ann

It doesn’t need a party. It doesn’t need an election. Any one of us on here could print some leaflets and distribute them now, stating that we will stand in the next election as an Independent on the platform of being the Anti-Lockdown candidate – that we will campaign to have a full investigation, to have any current colaborator MP put on trial, to compensate those who have unduly suffered by seizing the assets of convicted colaborators – and that should put the fear of God into them!

1
0
James Bertram
James Bertram
5 years ago
Reply to  James Bertram

Side two of the Urgent Action Now leaflet has some information on the Nuremberg Code:
https://www.stopnewnormal.net/downloads
‘Enforcing Covid regulations is an international breach of human rights…’

0
0
eva
eva
5 years ago
Reply to  James Bertram

I managed to download 2 of the leaflets and now in both safari and chrome, when i click download google wants me to make an account?? i would happily print these out and give them to people, but dont want to make a google account!!

0
0
Victoria
Victoria
5 years ago

“We in the World Health Organisation do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus. The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.”

Ha! The only reason why WHO suddenly have this view on lockdowns is because of the class action suit by Dr. Reiner Füllmich and the ACU.

The German COVID-19 Extra-Parliamentary Inquiry Committee – in German – ACU – German acronym for Ausserparlamentarischer Corona Untersuchungsausschuss – (see diagram from http://www.ACU2020.org website) is planning to launch a Class Action Suit against not only governments and government officials, but specifically against the manufacturers of the infamous PCR test (PCR – Polymerase Chain Reaction – is a technique used to “amplify” small segments of DNA) which, according to honest virologists all over the world, is absolutely unsuitable for covid-19 testing. It has actually not even been licensed to carry out such tests.

…..

……

https://www.globalresearch.ca/germany-extra-parliamentary-corona-investigative-commission-launching-class-action-suit-against-corona-criminals/5725633

14
0
Kf99
Kf99
5 years ago

The Dr Beaker reference is superb.

On the Dorries tweet, how big is this going to be? The Twitter response is only about 99.9% against her

9
0
PastImperfect
PastImperfect
5 years ago

https://www.globalresearch.ca/medical-doctor-warns-bacterial-pneumonias-rise-mask-wearing/5725848?fbclid=IwAR33DldgoPOMIcOAAFxGHMlhWVAwMiW08Nroqr60tmUgNHc_bRBSr11GSsE

“…the fear factor has got to step back. This idea that I don’t want to give you something that I don’t even know that I have is almost at the point of ridiculous. Let’s use some common sense.”

8
0
Basics
Basics
5 years ago

Brought over from yesterday LS commenter Lilli posted: Excellent comment in the Telegraph: Lucilla Rowbury 14 Oct 2020 8:34AM I applaud any journalist with the integrity and courage to speak the truth. Thank you. This is about total decimation of the economy so that Klaus Schwab’s great reset or fourth industrial revolution can be implemented. There is mounting evidence of global corruption and crimes against humanity to ensure that this new world order is brought forward. Here in the UK, Johnson isn’t oblivious to the destruction, he’s not incompetent; Johnson is doing EXACTLY what he has been told to do. In the coming months Johnson and Hancock will herald in this new world order (Great Reset posters already up in parts of the UK) and the gullible amongst us will think how wonderful that something good has come out of this crisis. But the more informed amongst us will realise that the virus has been used as trojan horse to accelerate the plans of one of the most ethically repugnant psychopaths on this planet. The measures taken by our government (most governments) were never about health: it has always been about control. Say goodbye to life as you knew it.… Read more »

15
-1
Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

From yesterday also. This is really important to see the globalists intention of a reshaped population is coming at us with UK Government collusion.

The Fourth Industrial Revolution’
The 2017 Matt Handcock speech you didn’t know about. On the UKGov website.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-4th-industrial-revolution

“…And I’m delighted to speak alongside so many impressive colleagues who really understand this, and alongside Professor Klaus Schwab who literally ‘wrote the book’ on the 4th Industrial Revolution. Your work, bringing together as you do all the best minds on the planet, has informed what we are doing, and I’m delighted to work with you. …”

5
-1
Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

TT added this link to the Healthtech board of which Hancock is mouth piece. Relevant to who has been developing the implentstion of the 4th Industrial revolution. Notice it is Health which has been deliberately chosen to force this onto populations, notice too the SARS-CoV-2 carry on is a supposed health emergency.

https://tech.newstatesman.com/public-sector/healthtech-advisory-board

2
0
VeryLittleHelps
VeryLittleHelps
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Also Devi Sridhar is on the World Economic Forum Council on the Health Industry. This could explain Führerin Krankie’s approach.

3
0
Rene F
Rene F
5 years ago

It doesn’t matter whether Biden wins in November or not, the UK political class will not change course and the only thing you can do is to disobey restrictions.

It’s also highly likely that Boris will try to advertise this ‘circuit-breaker’ as a thing the public has to do to ‘Save Christmas’

If you can’t tell, I am very blackpilled at the moment.

6
0
Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago

Toby / Will

Please can we have a new rule that all pictures of the right honourable Mr Matt Hancock MP are blurred out.

My mental state is precarious enough without having to see his shit-eating grin every day.

Kind regards

Mabel

24
0
Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

I agree. Or install a wordpress plug-in that allows for scrawled defacing of pictures.

3
0
Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Oooooh yeeeees.

1
0
TJP
TJP
5 years ago

We need to launch a campaign:
Country goes into full national lockdown > all ministers, MPs, elected representatives to donate their full salaries for each day of lockdown to a fund supporting those left without jobs or businesses
Local lockdowns > same but for local MPs/representatives
Pub and restaurant closures > hospitality sector to estimate % of losses with respect to a normal year, MPs donate the same % from their salary
Then at least they’d had an incentive to keep lockdowns short.

9
0
CGL
CGL
5 years ago
Reply to  TJP

But this will be the 3rd holiday we have missed now this year. I know it sounds like such a 1st world problem doesn’t it, but we have nothing else to look forward to. Just a week Dorset and the others were a week in mid-Wales and a trip to a mobile home in France – we’re not talking Barbados or anything flash. Just some quality respite. We arent allowed to have 1 minutes peace are we.

6
0
Felice
Felice
5 years ago
Reply to  CGL

Quite understand. I was supposed to have a month walking across Spain in May, a week volunterring in Spain in August, visiting a friend in Spain in Sept…
So far, we’ve managed a 3 night break in the Lakes in brilliant weather in July, which my 96 year old mother trashed by having a heart attack.
I desperately need a break too.

3
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Felice

You want a change? Try a week in Liverpool.

2
0
stewart
stewart
5 years ago
Reply to  CGL

You know things are moving in a bad direction if people in 1st world countries stop having 1st world problems and start having 3rd world problems.

5
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  CGL

Poor you! People have lost their jobs and livelihoods but you need a holiday.

3
-1
PastImperfect
PastImperfect
5 years ago

Hancock WEF speeches, meeting Gill Gates and vision for the NHS.

https://www.facebook.com/CaanageMedia/photos/a.111211127418040/118450803360739/

4
0
Kev
Kev
5 years ago

Dr Tedros seems to have problems forming his sentences properly

“Herd immunity is achieved by protecting people from a virus, not by exposing them to it,” he said.

What he meant was “Herd immunity is achieved by exposing people to a virus, not by protecting them from it” – What exactly does a vaccine do if it doesn’t expose you to the virus, that is how it works.

“Never in the history of public health has herd immunity been used as a strategy for responding to an outbreak, let alone a pandemic,” he also said.

What he meant was “Never in history has herd immunity NOT been used as a strategy for responding to an outbreak, let alone a pandemic,”

10
0
A. Contrarian
A. Contrarian
5 years ago
Reply to  Kev

Never in history have lockdowns been used as a strategy either…

9
0
Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  A. Contrarian

Where did the lockdown concept come from?
An Americans 16 year olds science project. This was then developed by her scientist father into a paper, her name appears in the paper.

Open to learning more about the origin. My answer above is what I know, I have seen the paper. However, it may not be true that this was the origin. I would like to be informed if anyone can add to this.

2
0
Nigel Sherratt
Nigel Sherratt
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

AOC perhaps?

0
0
Mayo
Mayo
5 years ago

Try telling that to the Swedes, Professor.

Be careful here. The rise in infections in Sweden is not that different to what was happening in the rest of Europe about 6 weeks ago. A steady increase – but very few hospitalisations. Then, as the infection spread further, we got a slight uptick in hospital cases which has now become a steady trickle.

Sweden might get away with it but they have tended to be a few weeks behind the likes of France, Spain, Italy & the UK.

3
-14
sky_trees
sky_trees
5 years ago
Reply to  Mayo

Indeed. I think the evidence is very sketchy to say ‘because Sweden didn’t lock down, that’s why Covid is so low there’. There’s a lot unexplained about this virus.

I wondered if countries are recording things differently depending on their agendas, to be honest. If this situation has shown one thing, it’s that you can torture data to get it to show whatever you want, basically. Objective truth is a slippery concept.

6
-1
mhcp
mhcp
5 years ago
Reply to  sky_trees

It’s not about the amount of infections or deaths. It’s how it compares to flu season where you don’t take measures.

it’s the measures not the disease

1
0
Julian
Julian
5 years ago
Reply to  sky_trees

The Swedes never said they could suppress covid, they realised it needed to be lived with sustainably over a long period, and that is what they are doing.

Regarding the data, I agree that it is hard to make comparisons. All you can really do is look at all-cause mortality as a % of population and compare with previous years in that country. To my knowledge, in every country in the world, that figure is not in any way unprecedented and is often very average. Everything else is just noise.

5
0
stewart
stewart
5 years ago
Reply to  sky_trees

There is so much truth to what you say.

How many people in Britain would know anything about any epidemic if it simply wasn’t talked about and any “covid” deaths were simply put down to respiratory disease.

If it wasn’t for the constant bombardment from the news, people would be completely oblivious to anything strange going on.

6
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  stewart

I think 24 hour news and social media is part of it. An alternative virtual reality has been created in which millions of otherwise healthy people are dropping dead from Covid, and the addicted public mostly lack the critical faculties to see through it.

3
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  stewart

Because the only thing strange going on is the mockdown measures!

2
0
chris c
chris c
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Yes and the lockdowns stop you going out into the real world and meeting all the people who haven’t died or know anyone who did.

1
0
Steven F
Steven F
5 years ago
Reply to  stewart

Most people I talk to have no recollection of the bad flu season of 2017/8 when excess winter deaths in this country exceeded 50,000. It simply wasn’t newsworthy and so the general public remained oblivious. As did I, incidentally.

0
0
Steven F
Steven F
5 years ago
Reply to  sky_trees

There was much scratching of heads earlier this year because no-one could understand why Gemany had such a relatively low death rate (approx 9,000 at that time in a population of 83 million) The difference was that the Germans were recording only those deaths directly attributable to Covid. Here and elsewhere in Europe, as we all know, Covid was added to many more death certificates as the cause of death than should have been the case.
German statistics provide us with a much more accurate representation of the level of mortal danger i.e not very much for most people. Even Sweden’s figures are inflated (albeit inadvertantly) by the fact that they also made the tragic error of shifting the sick elderly into care homes to create more space in the hospitals. This accounts for about half of their 5,900 deaths.

0
0
Achilles
Achilles
5 years ago
Reply to  Mayo

Sweden might get away with it? They’ve gotten away with it since May. It is quite clearly a successful strategy. If they’d got it wrong it would have been obvious in Summer and certainly now, there wouldn’t even have been an argument about it. The dead bodies would be piled on the streets with condemnation to follow. Still waiting…still waiting…still waiting…

11
0
Julian
Julian
5 years ago
Reply to  Mayo

The Swedes said you could only give final judgement after a year or more. So far on any reasonable measure they are doing way better than the UK.

So what if there is a steady increase in hospitalisations (I mean genuine ones – people with actual covid)? Sad for those affected, but normal. People get ill. Trying to abolish one illness at the cost of all other illnesses and normal life is futile, damaging and insisting on doing so when you know it won’t work is evil.

11
0
swedenborg
swedenborg
5 years ago
Reply to  Mayo

The virus is un-stoppable. It is mainly spread by airborne transmission and being near 1m of any infected also with facemasks risks being infected. All nations (incl Sweden) deviated from earlier practice in flu pandemics plan (all adhered to in 2019) that SD measures should have disappeared after the peak i.e May, June. Sweden despite not having lockdown still had SD which was adhered to in the beginning. Never in the world history have we had SD 6 months after the first wave. It is preposterous to think that you can adhere to SD for such long times. This can be done for a very short time period. Spain is a good example that facemasks are total useless as the natural state of humans is to mingle, even more so using facemasks as a talisman. We all hoped that the C-19 would disappear after the first wave like Sars but unfortunately it is now a seasonal virus. Now we have the colder weather with a true second wave in all European countries. Sweden has now double hospitalizations and double ICU use compared to the nadir a month ago. But they have a bigger chance to have a lesser wave than… Read more »

6
0
MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG
MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG
5 years ago
Reply to  swedenborg

I agree with this but I would stick to ‘seasonal’ rather than ‘2nd wave’. That term has become part of the fear-porn. Will next year’s seasonal viruses be the ‘third wave’ etc. This is what the globalist psychos seem to want to brainwash us with.

It beats me why people can’t see that in October, in the northern hemisphere, you will get an increase in respiratory viruses which will continue until the end of winter. Sadly some of these people will die. It happens every year. MW

8
0
BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
5 years ago
Reply to  swedenborg

Yes. Seasonal. And we have created a monster with track and trace, health passporting, social circles and occasions destroyed, health systems at capacity for years to come, unemployment crisis, societal relationships toxified even more, break up of the UK accelerated. The list is endless. All in 8 months.

7
0
Rene Fraser
Rene Fraser
5 years ago

It doesn’t matter whether Biden wins in November or not, the UK political class will not change course and the only thing you can do is to disobey restrictions.

It’s also highly likely that Boris will try to advertise this ‘circuit-breaker’ as a thing the public has to do to ‘Save Christmas’

If you can’t tell, I am very pessimistic at the moment.

11
0
Janice21
Janice21
5 years ago
Reply to  Rene Fraser

Same here. How will they ever turn this around or admit they are and were wrong?!

2
0
stewart
stewart
5 years ago
Reply to  Rene Fraser

If the Fuhrer does what Starmer is saying he should do then he will look feeble, pathetic and clueless.

Mind you, he doesn’t seem to mind that too much given his track record this year, so can’t rule it out.

2
0
Ann
Ann
5 years ago
Reply to  stewart

Feeble, pathetic and clueless.
An improvement.

1
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  stewart

Even Hitler knew what day it was unlike Johnson

0
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  Rene Fraser

If Biden wins America deserves all it gets and I hold no particular admiration for Trump either

0
0

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