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by Toby Young
2 November 2020 2:19 AM

Where Did SAGE Get 4,000 Deaths a Day?

Blower’s cartoon in today’s Telegraph

Spectator editor Fraser Nelson wrote a terrific blog post on Saturday evening, querying where SAGE got its 4,000 deaths-a-day figure from. Remember, it was this modelling that frightened Boris into abandoning his ‘middle path’ strategy in favour of a second lockdown.

Just 10 days ago, Boris Johnson was attacking lockdowns for the “psychological, the emotional damage” they inflict: the effect on mental health as well as the economy. Then, he saw COVID-19 as a menace that could be managed with a “commonsensical approach” of local and regional measures. Now, he sees Covid as a monster capable of overwhelming the NHS and warns of a “medical and a moral disaster” if we do not do a stay-at-home lockdown. His view of the virus seems to have changed, utterly. Why?

As soon as he started his statement, he turned to the graphs on which his case hangs. It was not so much new data, but new models showing new forecasts. Sir Patrick Vallance, the Chief Scientific Officer, ran through them: the same ones leaked to the BBC a few hours earlier. As we know, the first wave peaked at just over 1,000 daily deaths. The new graphs show deaths hitting 4,000 deaths a day – perhaps even as high as 6,000. To put this in perspective, daily deaths in the USA peaked at about 2,500. If 4,000 daily deaths is now plausible from a second wave in Britain, as the models seem to suggest, drastic action is understandable. Here is the graph, shown at the press conference, that makes the case for lockdown:

The above graph is quite a departure from previous understanding of Covid’s potency. We now see second-wave deaths dwarfing not only those from the first wave but those envisaged by the Government’s official ‘realistic worst-case scenario’ (RWC) for the coming winter. The RWC was a secret until the Spectator published it a few days ago, showing deaths peaking at about 800 a day. Here it is.

When we printed the above chart, it looked bad enough. Now it looks tame by comparison of the new studies. And there’s no mention of ‘worst-case’ scenarios: these are billed only as ‘winter scenarios’. But who drew them up? What are the assumptions? And how robust are they? The leak this morning told us who did the modelling: Cambridge, Imperial, etc. Just as an Imperial study made the case for the first lockdown, these four studies make the case for the second. So they ought to be published, together with the assumptions behind them. It would help explain how we get from the data we’ve seen in recent weeks to the scenarios shown to us now, which suggest a tsunami.

Fraser is quite right. If the Government is going to rely on these models to justify placing the whole of England under virtual house arrest for at least a month and almost certainly longer, it is surely under an obligation to publish them? Not just so they can be scrutinised by the electorate, but also by other scientists and – critically – Conservative MPs who will be expected to vote for the second lockdown on Wednesday.

Ross Clark, writing in yesterday’s Telegraph, cast doubt on the reliability of the models used in Saturday’s briefing.

Who noticed the small print at the bottom of the graph, illegible on the version flashed before us during the press briefing but visible in the slides published online: “these are scenarios – not predictions or forecasts”? Oddly, there was no source listed for these graphs – we were told only that they come “from a number of academic modelling groups”. We have subsequently learned that the most frightening curve – the 4,000 a day one – was the work of Public Health England (PHE) and Cambridge University. But it does not seem to have been published – and my efforts to extract the study from PHE have so far drawn a blank. Without being able to see its workings, we have no idea what assumptions have gone into the 4,000 deaths a day claim.

It certainly doesn’t pass the smell test. On Saturday, Public Health England reported 278 new Covid deaths in England. The average number of deaths for the past seven days is 214, up 50 per cent on the week before. If deaths kept on rising at that rate then, yes, you would get to 4,000 deaths a day in December.

However, a better guide to future deaths is the figures for new infections, which, of course, tend to lead the death figures. Over the past seven days PHE has recorded an average of 22,521 new cases a day – which was a six per cent increase on the week before. If deaths follow the trajectory of new infections – as surely they must, unless COVID-19 suddenly mutates into a vastly more deadly form – they will be nowhere near 1,000 a day by Christmas, let alone 4,000.

The figures for new infections clearly show a slowdown in the increase in new infections. But you wouldn’t have gained this impression listening to Professor Chris Whitty or Sir Patrick Vallance on Saturday. Whitty tried to tell us that infections are rising in every part of England – in spite of a graph on the screen clearly suggesting they have begun to fall in the North East. The graphs also indicated a levelling off of new infections in London, the South East and the West Midlands, and low trajectories in the East and South West. Only in the North West and Yorkshire and the Humber are infections following a really worrying curve. Parts of these regions have recently been subjected to Tier 3 restrictions, which are not now going to be allowed time to work.

Instead, exactly as Boris Johnson told us a week ago would be misguided, we are going to close down restaurants in Cornwall to try to fight an epidemic in Manchester. As in the spring, the Government has allowed itself to be panicked by alarmist modelling, a worst-case scenario dressed up as if it were scientific fact – and this time we don’t even get to see the workings.

This is truly alarming. What assumptions have PHE and Cambridge University made in these apocalyptic models? And just how credible are they?

If anyone would like to leak these models to Lockdown Sceptics, we will get a crack team of top scientists to subject them to a quick-and-dirty peer review in time for Wednesday’s vote. Contact us here. Discretion assured.

Stop Press: Turns out, the projections produced by the Cambridge statistical unit that were invoked by Patrick Vallance at Saturday’s press briefings were out of date. According to the Telegraph, Vallance relied on a scenario that was drawn up three weeks ago rather than using a more-up-to-date scenario from the same unit that was far less apocalyptic.

The modelling presented on Saturday night, which suggests deaths could reach 4,000 a day by December, is so out-of-date that it suggests daily deaths are now around 1,000 a day.

In fact, the daily average for the last week is 260, with a figure of 162 yesterday.

And the statistics unit at Cambridge University has produced far more up-to-date projections, with far lower figures, the Telegraph can reveal.

These forecasts, dated October 28 – three days before the Downing Street announcement – far more closely track the current situation, forecasting 240 daily deaths by next week, and around 500 later this month.

While these predictions do not look as far ahead as December, they suggest a picture which is far more optimistic than the scenario which caused shock waves this weekend.

Prof Carl Heneghan, the director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, at Oxford University, said he was “deeply concerned” by the selection of data which were not based on the current reality.

He said: “Our job as scientists is to reflect the evidence and the uncertainties and to provide the latest estimates.”

“I cannot understand why they have used this data, when there are far more up-to-date forecasts from Cambridge that they could have accessed, which show something very different.”

Prof Heneghan said his analysis suggests the forecasts could be four to five times too high.

He said: “I’m deeply concerned about how the data is being presented so that politicians can make decisions. It is a fast-changing situation, which is very different in different regions, and it concerns me that MPs who are about to go to a vote are not getting the full picture.”

The Mail has done some digging of its own and also found out some worrying shortcomings in the data that featured so prominently at the Downing Street presser on Saturday night. For instance, the Cambridge forecast classified a death as being from Covid if it occurred within 60 days of a positive test result. It was precisely because the Covid death toll was being inflated in this way (as pointed out by Prof Carl Heneghan) that PHE reluctantly introduced the 28-day cut-off.

Was Boris aware that the Chief Scientific Officer and Chief Medical Officer were presenting him with out-of-date information when they leant on him to impose a full lockdown on Friday? The data presented by them in the Downing Street presser is looking more and more like the dodgy dossier that Alastair Campbell cooked up to justify the invasion of Iraq.

Worth reading in full.

Stop Press: A reader with a scientific background has summarised the REACT survey for us. You’ll recall, this was among the studies that scared the bejesus out Boris.

They take 85,971 self-administered swabs and analyse using our worst friend, the PCR.

They get 863 positives, which is 1%.

They then add a bit of ‘weight’ to it to make it 1.28%

THEN – get this! – they promptly ignore everyone who’s had it (probably 23 million based on an IFR of 0.2% and the deaths we’ve had) plus those who won’t get it because of T-cells, and multiply 1.28% by the entire population!

They then add a bit more ‘weight’ to the resulting 870,400 to make it 960,000 and then go ‘mmm… symptoms last about 10 days, so that must mean 96,000 cases a day!’

Shitty and Malice read it, report back to Prime Minister Lighthead (who at this stage I’m assuming can’t read himself unless it’s in Latin or Greek), everyone dumps in their pants and we’re off again.

Unbelievable. Utterly Un-make-up-able.

Pressure Builds to Close Schools

The figures on the Lockdown track are children

Having succeeded in persuading Boris to do a U-turn, the lockdown hawks in SAGE are becoming emboldened and now have school closures in their sights. Sir Mark Walport and Sir Jeremy Farrar, both members of SAGE, have warned that lockdown restrictions may need amending as schools staying open could be problematic. The Mail has more.

Former chief scientific adviser Sir Mark Walport said the new restrictions were not as “severe” as the first time round, and that there was a “possibility” the restrictions may need to stay in place for more than four weeks.

In an interview with Sky’s Sophy Ridge On Sunday, he warned: “It’s unlikely this time to come down quite as fast as it did during the first lockdown because we have got schools open.”

His comments were echoed by Sir Jeremy Farrar, a member of the Government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), who said transmission in secondary schools is “high”.

He told BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show: “The big difference to the first lockdown is that schools remain open.

“Because we have delayed the onset of this lockdown it does make keeping schools open harder.

“We know that transmission, particularly in secondary schools is high.

“Personally I think this is definitely the lockdown to put in place now but if that transmission, particularly in secondary schools, continues to rise then that may have to be revisited in the next four weeks in order to get R below one and the epidemic shrinking.”

Worth reminding these zealots that there has been no recorded case of a teacher catching the coronavirus from a pupil anywhere in the world, as reported in the Times in July. Back then, Mark Woolhouse, a leading epidemiologist and also a member of SAGE, told the Times that it had been a mistake to close schools in March given the limited role children play in spreading the virus.

“One thing we have learnt is that children are certainly, in the 5 to 15 brackets from school to early years, minimally involved in the epidemiology of this virus,” Professor Woolhouse, an infectious disease epidemiologist at Edinburgh University, said. “They are probably less susceptible and vanishingly unlikely to end up in hospital or to die from it.”

“There is increasing evidence that they rarely transmit. For example, it is extremely difficult to find any instance anywhere in the world as a single example of a child transmitting to a teacher in school. There may have been one in Australia but it is incredibly rare.”

Stop Press: Kevin Courtney, the joint General Secretary of the National Education Union, who’s been leading the calls for school closures, is the highest-paid trade union leader in the country. His annual salary is £217,501, which includes an employers’ national insurance contribution of £21,968 and a pension contribution of £25,264. I wonder how he’d feel about closing schools if he was a single dad working two jobs to support his family?

Three Days to Save the NHS Economy

An image beamed on to the House of Commons by the new Recovery group last night

My friend the famous financial journalist, who cannot be named because it would jeopardise his career, thinks the only thing we can do to try and avert the looming disaster that is the second lockdown is to write to our MPs. I suggested he create a template that Lockdown Sceptics readers could use and he duly obliged.

Dear Member of Parliament,

This week you will be called upon to authorise a second lockdown across England. As your constituent, I urge you reject this proposal on the grounds that lockdowns are ruinous to lives, livelihoods and liberty.

Lives are lost when other medical services are suspended. Lives are ruined by depression and domestic violence which accompany lockdowns. Livelihoods are destroyed and countless families impoverished with future generations left to bear the costs of this ruinous policy. Liberty is suspended as the government rules by decree. Parliament is sidelined and its constitutional role seriously diminished.

Lockdown is not only a cruel and blunt instrument for dealing with COVID-19, it is singularly ineffective. That’s why we are facing a second lockdown so soon after the first. We’re told that hospitals are about to be overwhelmed. But how much confidence should we have in epidemiological models when their forecasting record to date has been so poor?

Evidence from around the world reveals no correlation between lockdowns and coronavirus fatalities. In fact, Peru, the country with the highest fatality rate also had one of the earliest and strictest lockdowns. By contrast, Sweden, which had no lockdown has suffered no excess deaths this year. A policy of “focused protection” for the vulnerable offers a viable alternative approach to a second lockdown.

We have reached a critical moment in our country’s history. If you truly care for the health and welfare of the nation, or are concerned about the future of Parliament, our constitution and liberties, you must reject this second lockdown.

And if you don’t fancy that one, here’s an actual letter a reader has just sent to his MP, Gareth Davies, the member for Grantham and Stamford (Con).

Sir,

I am writing to you as my representative in Parliament, as a resident of Bourne, to urge you not to vote in favour of the planned second Lockdown from Thursday.

The effects of Lockdowns are well known. They’re so negative that even the WHO now advises against them with Prof David Nabarro, special envoy to the WHO saying precisely this in an interview with Andrew Neil on Spectator TV. Our PM even described Lockdowns recently as the ‘nuclear option’ when responding to the Leader of the Opposition’s call for a ‘circuit-break’ recently.

Being furloughed and having to make ends meet on 80% salary as a single-parent of two children was bad enough in March, April and May but will be impossible over the coming month with Christmas approaching. And of course it won’t just be the coming month, will it?

I appreciate the low case rate in South Kesteven compared with elsewhere in the UK May afford me and others here a perceived misunderstanding of the situation nationally, but it doesn’t take long using the government’s own Covid Dashboard to see that what SAGE members are saying doesn’t square with reality. Tier 3 measures being introduced in Greater Nottingham from last Thursday, for example, despite the persistent and sustained fall in cases there from the start of the month is a good case in point. The same for Liverpool & Merseyside and the majority of boroughs in Manchester.

I have never had time for conspiracy theories but I am now fully on board with the likelihood of sinister work at play. All these discredited models by SAGE scientists still seem to curry favour with the PM, who has undoubtedly been ‘got’ early on, following his fight with COVID-19.

Why is SAGE’s reasoning behind their models kept secret? Why is SAGE conflating cases with infections when the two are far from the same?

To be clear, if you vote for this atrocious, unnecessary and legally dubious further grab of our liberties, I – like many others I know – will never vote Conservative again.

You may consider time is on your Party’s side with just under four years before the next General Election, but the lockdown-caused deaths will be ‘slow burners’ for all to see, taking place over the forthcoming years with highly publicised cancer, heart-related and mental illness deaths played out before your, and all your constituents’, eyes, from which there will be no going back.

If the good people of South Kesteven see thousands of unnecessary excess deaths reported with as much gusto as the press has with reminding us of the daily case/death rates for years and years, there is every chance that this Tory stronghold will turn red in the same way the Beast of Bolsolver would never have thought he’d see his constituency turn blue.

Yours sincerely,

XXXXX XXXXXXX

Stop Press: There’s a rebellion brewing on the Conservative back benches, according to the Telegraph – not helped by Michael Gove’s hint on Marr yesterday morning that the second lockdown could be extended well beyond December 2nd.

Tory former minister Sir Desmond Swayne said it would take a “huge amount of persuasion for me to vote for this disastrous course of action”.

Conservative former party leader Sir Iain Duncan Smith said the announcement of another lockdown was a “body blow” to the British people.

A Government source said there was “enormous frustration” from backbenchers and ministers about the Government’s handling of the crisis, with the leak of lockdown restrictions suggesting “incompetence” within Number 10.

The Mail has more.

Boris Johnson was facing a Tory rebellion last night over his new national lockdown.

Many of his own MPs were outraged by the revelation that the restrictions could last much longer than the planned four weeks – and potentially even run into spring.

Some indicated they would oppose the measures that business chiefs fear will devastate an already fragile economy.

“I will be voting against the new national lockdown on Wednesday when it comes before the House of Commons,” said former Cabinet minister Esther McVey. “The ‘lockdown cure’ is causing more harm than Covid.”

Another Conservative MP said the fresh clampdown was “like a nightmare that we’ll never wake up from”.

The Mail also has a hard-hitting comment piece by Sir Iain Duncan Smith, questioning whether the data presented by Witless and Unbalanced on Saturday night was fair and accurate.

Please God let more Tory MPs rebel. If Boris has to rely on Labour votes to get the second lockdown through Parliament that will be a political disaster for him.

The Grim Reaper is Owed a Few Souls

I’m publishing a guest post here by an independent researcher who has come up with a novel argument as to why SAGE’s prediction of 4,000 deaths a day if we don’t impose a second lockdown is implausible. I’ve also given it a permanent slot on the right-hand side under the heading of “How Reliable is the Modelling”?

I’m not usually a big fan of making predictions. I love the quote, reputedly from Nils Bohr: “Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future”. But I’m going to go out on a limb here, and say I don’t think the graph shown by Boris Johnson’s “scientists” yesterday, of over 6000 deaths a day in the UK is going to happen. The fact that it was even shown I just find embarrassing. As a Brit. I’m not sure if it’s because it’s so scientifically illiterate, or whether it’s evidence that the authoritarian elite have so little respect for the people of this country that they can just put up such transparent garbage, to get what they want. Which appears to be the destruction of our wealth and way of life.

But there clearly are increasing Covid hospitalisations and deaths currently happening in the UK and in other places. My hypothesis below is that this is because the epidemic was artificially suppressed in April, and now reality is catching up again. The Grim Reaper wants his souls. And I think we can make a reasonable prediction of how many he is coming for, based on how many we tried to prevent him getting the first time around. Apparently, deaths during respiratory epidemics normally follow the Gompertz curve, a feature of which is the straight line decline once the epidemic has peaked. A comparison between Sweden and the UK shows this.

The artificial suppression of the virus progress back in March and April took the UK off the natural Gompertz trajectory. The change in the slope is clearly visible around the last week in April. What I am proposing here is that those lives which were saved from the end of April through to the end of July were only really delayed deaths, as this virus is not eradicable. And now they are due. And they are also predictable. If we look at the UK in more detail (showing actual seven day average death counts):

The break in slope at around April 23rd is clear, and makes sense when you consider that it would have taken about a month for any effect of the lockdown to become visible on the death count. And as can be seen with the change in slope, we have had less deaths than should have occurred.

And then all I have done is the graph up these daily ‘missing deaths’ that were the ‘gap’ between April and July, and overlay them against what is being observed as ‘the second wave’. As can be seen in this graph, the fit to the actual rise in cases in October is actually quite good. Up until now.

This ‘model’ would suggest that deaths will peak within a week or two, and after a month’s plateau at numbers between 250 and 300 per day, rapidly decline through December.

Now of course this could all be complete nonsense. Time will shortly tell. But I thought it would be good to put out an alternative hypothesis to the rubbish that Boris Johnson has based his reasoning on. Unfortunately, even if what I have shown above comes to pass, our liberal elite leadership will claim this is based on their lockdown response and assure us we need to remain with restrictions as there will still be cases in the community, and according to SAGE only a few percent of the nation will have been infected. Hundreds of thousands could still die. And don’t forget the recent ‘study’ from Imperial college, showing that immunity is only transient, so lots of scope for us all to be reinfected. We may be down this rabbit hole for a very long time.

Brexit Party Reinvents Itself as Anti-Lockdown Party

According to the Telegraph, the Brexit Party is about to reinvent itself as an Anti-Lockdown Party called Reform UK and contest hundreds of seats at the elections in May. Founders Nigel Farage and Richard Tice have declared lockdowns don’t work and instead back a policy of “focused protection”, as set out in the Great Barrington Declaration (see below).

Chief Political Correspondent Christopher Hope has more.

The news will worry Conservative MPs, scarred by the way that Mr Farage’s previous Eurosceptic parties – the UK Independence Party and the Brexit Party – sapped support for the Tory party at previous elections.

The Brexit Party – which won 29 seats in last year’s European Parliament elections 10 weeks after it was set up – claimed to have 150,000 ‘registered supporters’ at its peak, although numbers are understood to have fallen to tens of thousands since then. Hundreds of thousands of pounds has been said to have been pledged for the re-badged party.

Mr Farage said he expected to find support among people whose businesses have been adversely affected by the lockdown, such as the self-employed, restaurateurs and others in the hospitality industry.

He said: “We feel there is a massive political hole at the moment. The crisis has shown how badly governed we are – everything from our quangos to the £12 billion we have wasted on track and trace, to firms being given the most ludicrous contracts, to illegal immigration where we tough talk and nothing ever happens.

“The whole system of government in the UK is not working, and is therefore in need of very radical reform. Brexit is about making us free, but beyond Brexit we have to be governed better. Brexit is the beginning of what we need. Brexit gives us self-governance – we now need to have good self-governance.”

Farage and Tice have announced the formation of the new party in a comment piece for the Telegraph.

They say: “Lockdowns don’t work: in fact, they cause more harm than good. But there is a credible alternative, recommended by some of the finest epidemiologists and medics in the world. It is the Great Barrington Declaration. It is effectively being practised to a large degree in Sweden, with considerable success.

“Focused protection is the key, targeting resources at those most at risk: the elderly, vulnerable or those with other medical conditions. Many of them of course would prefer to hug their grandchildren and enjoy a family Christmas with loved ones. They should not be criminalised for the simple acts that make life worth living, particularly in their final years.

“The rest of the population should, with good hygiene measures and a dose of common sense, get on with life. This way we build immunity in the population. The young act as warriors, creating a shield of protection. Multi generational households will of course need to implement stricter measures.”

They add: “Every death is a huge loss for family, friends and loved ones. But we must put Covid-related deaths into perspective. Around 1,600 people die every day in the UK, for some reason or other.

“The average age of a coronavirus fatality is 82: older than average life expectancy. The truth is this horrible illness is only very dangerous for a tiny minority of people.

“The average person has more than a 99.5 per cent chance of surviving the disease if they catch it. We must have the courage to live with the virus, not hide in fear of it.”

The party will back the Great Barrington Declaration, a policy backed by thousands of scientists and doctors, which advocates only requiring the elderly and most vulnerable to lock down.

The pair add: “Reform is the only significant political party that supports the Great Barrington Declaration. We are showing the courage needed to take on consensus thinking and vested interests on Covid.

“But there are so many areas of public life that can be improved to benefit ordinary people. That is why we will campaign for Reform.”

This is a very positive development. Until now, political opposition to the lockdown has come from a few brave Conservative MPs like Sir Graham Brady, Sir Desmond Swayne, Esther McVey, Sir Iain Duncan Smith and Charles Walker. If Reform UK can attract the same sort of support as the Brexit Party it will pose a credible threat to sitting Conservative Mayors, Counsellors and Police and Crime Commissioners in the local elections next May – and that will undoubtedly create more internal opposition to the lockdown policy within the Conservative Party. More power to their elbow.

Worth reading in full.

Boris Thinks the Lockdown is a Ravenous Devouring Monster

Scylla as a maiden with a kētos tail and dog heads sprouting from her body. Detail from a red-figure bell-crater in the Louvre, 450–425 B.C. This form of Scylla was prevalent in ancient depictions, though very different from the description in Homer, where she is land-based and more dragon-like.

A reader has pointed out that Boris recently compared a second lockdown to the mythical Greek monster Scylla – which is spot on, obviously. Classically-educated readers will recall that Odysseus had to navigate a narrow waterway, with Scylla on one bank and Charybdis on the other, plotting exactly the right line or risk being devoured by one of them.

It’s worth reminding ourselves now of the metaphors that Boris has used to describe lockdown. The “nuclear option” – assured destruction, massive and indiscriminate, only to be deployed by an insane Dr Strangelove. And Scylla (a characteristically show-off classical reference – Boris said he would steer a course between the Scylla of national lockdown and the Charybdis of “letting it rip”). Which makes the lockdown… a ravenous devouring monster. Sounds about right. Someone should lash him to the mast and stop him listening to the alluring sirens of SAGE. (In Robert Fagles’ translation of the Odyssey, the opening lines are: “Sing to me of the man, Muse, the man of twists and turns, driven time and again off course”.)

I’ve Started a Petition to Cut MPs Salaries by 20% – in Line With Furloughed Workers

I started a petition last night on Change.org asking MPs to take a 20% pay cut for the duration of the lockdown, just as furloughed employees are having to do. My hope is it will attract so many signatures, MPs will feel under moral pressure to do it and that, in turn, will make them reluctant to wave through the second lockdown in the House of Commons on Wednesday – or, if they do, make them more inclined to hold Boris to the December 2nd deadline.

You can sign it here.

Stop Press: Someone has started a petition to stop the second lockdown. You can sign that one here.

The Covid Physician

I’m publishing a long piece today by a dissident NHS doctor who styles himself the Covid Physician and can be found on twitter here. It’s essentially a diary of what it’s been like to be a practising GP during the pandemic. Here’s an extract:

My attitude to the Government pandemic advice hardened significantly when I received the CCG (Clinical Commissioning Group) advice on pyrexial over-70 year olds in the community: do not admit them. If they get very ill, call the Macmillan nurse and palliative care team. This was my first sniff of the new-normal clinical lunacy. It was redolent of the swine ‘flu panic where in 2009 we were negligently told to prescribe novel anti-viral medication to anyone on the basis of the slightest raised temperature, regardless of better alternative diagnoses. A reasonable body of doctors would never do this under sane conditions.

I did research. Given my older patients were to be left at home to sink or swim, I concluded that the very safe hydroxychloroquine, zinc and azithromycin combination was worth trying in the best interests of those marooned patients. I was blessed to have my own NHS dispensary and quickly ordered the medications. That was when the second whiff of madness was caught: the gaslighting (‘nudging’) mainstream media was repeatedly telling me it was very dangerous, they were lambasting my brave and learned international medical colleagues for daring to say anything but a vaccine was effective in mitigating COVID-19. Our CCG pharmacist emailed all GPs to ask us to not prescribe hydroxychloroquine in suspected COVID-19 cases as this would diminish stock for the usual rheumatoid and lupus users.

As it happens, such was the lack of community cases of clinically-unwell COVID-19, I never had to use the triple therapy. The closest I got was when a very feverish lady in her 80s was being left to probably die of a severe sepsis. She was refused hospital admission. At that time, I was not allowed to see her, as we had a dedicated Covid ‘red hub’ to remotely triage queried Covid cases to. Its guidelines had concluded temperature equated to Covid, which in turn equated to no hospital access allowed for over-70s. This was my third experience of what was now a reeking stench. Fortunately, her home-help called me to notify me of the ensuing danger. I assessed the situation remotely and concluded that the clinical logic of the red hub was wrong. The most likely cause was line sepsis (she had an in-dwelling feeding line in a major blood vessel). I spoke to the red hub and the hospital to explain that the guidelines were fatally negligent. They took her in, and line sepsis it was. This simply required a new line and intravenous antibiotics. She survived to rejoin her husband, but how many are still dying of perfectly treatable, potentially fatal illness?

Worth reading in full.

Latest Polling

I received an email from Savanta ComRes yesterday detailing the results of a poll it conducted after Boris’s presser on Saturday. It makes for grim reading I’m afraid.

Latest polling conducted by Savanta ComRes last night, after Boris Johnson’s announcement, shows strong support for new four-week lockdown. Almost three quarters say they support the measures (72%), with just 15% saying that they oppose them. One in ten (11%) say they neither support nor oppose the measures.

Support is highest for closing pubs, bars and restaurants, with three quarters of English adults supporting it (76%), and just one in ten opposing it (12%). Around half (47%) say they support schools, colleges, and universities staying open, with two in five opposing keeping these open (37%).

When asked how long they think the measures will last, almost half (47%) of English adults think we’ll emerge later than the planned date of 2nd December, while a third believe the measures will end on that date (32%). Just over one in five believe the restrictions will end earlier than the planned date of December 2nd (7%).

I’d like to meet someone in the 20% who think restrictions will end earlier than December 2nd. I have a bridge I’d like to sell them…

There was one glimmer of light.

When asked about how the Government has handled the pandemic over the last month, around half of English adults think they have handled it badly (53%), while around a quarter think they have handled it well (23%).

We still have much work to do comrades.

NHS Test-and-Invent

I get about a dozen emails like this every day. Something has gone very wrong at NHS Test and Trace.

Just heard an amusing anecdote from my taxi driver today. He explained that he and three members of his family went for a test (as he’d been in contact with someone infected). When they got to the centre they were told there was a four-hour wait, he said “f**k that!” and they all left without being swabbed… Thirty-six hours later all four of them received a text that they had all tested positive and had to isolate by law for 14 days! And that system cost us 12 billion pounds???

Message From North Korea the Devolved Nations

A reader in Scotland emailed me yesterday, having created the above image.

Living under the Sturgeon Terror I could not resist creating this in Photoshop when I heard England would be screening Lockdown 2: This Time It’s Personal for a month.

Ironically, despite Sturgeon’s “anything Boris can do I can do worse” policy, come Thursday Scotland will have the least severe Lockdown in the UK by default. I give that about five minutes before Sturgeon goes one up by making gloves and goggles compulsory or something equally mental.

Don’t expect the restrictions to end on December 2nd. In Scotland we were told that the restrictions would be for two weeks. That was then extended to three weeks then with the Tier System it was extended to forever.

On the plus side, now that the nations of the UK are all in the same sinking boat the tossers at the top can no longer play regional divide and rule. This means that there will be a united opposition to the UK wide restrictions. Since it is clear that protest, resistance and push back are the only thing that are going to put an end to this madness, that can only be a good thing.

Stop Press: Alan Cochrane in the Telegraph says Nicola Sturgeon has been a contrast-gainer from Boris’s latest flip-flop. The dithering chump is going to cost us the Union, isn’t he?

Round-Up

  • “Americans are too willing to bow to authoritarianism and sacrifice their rights for ‘the greater good‘” – Great piece in the Post-Millennium by Libby Emmons, based on an interview with yours truly
  • “This is far too grave a decision for four men to make in private. Who speaks for the British people?” – Good leader in yesterday’s Mail on Sunday
  • “A land of fear and twitching curtains” – Dan Hodges takes his life in his hands and visits the People’s Republic of Wales
  • “Airlines cancel international flights ahead of national lockdown” – The Telegraph reports that airlines are cancelling all international fights between November 5th and December 2nd
  • “The Cult of Covid: How Lockdown Destroyed Britain” – Lockdown sceptic Jamie Walden has written a book about what a disaster the UK lockdown has been. You can purchase it from Amazon here
  • “No more handshakes” – Niall Ferguson (the good one) reviews Apollo’s Arrow, Nicholas Cristakis’s book about the pandemic
  • “A history of the Swedish covid response” – Sebastian Rushworth M.D., a British doctor in Sweden, with his latest blog post. Always worth reading
  • “Treatment with Zinc is Associated with Reduced In-Hospital Mortality Among COVID-19 Patients: A Multi-Center Cohort Study” – Well I never!
  • “Repeating these measures is the definition of insanity – and countless people will suffer” – Dr Charles Levinson in the Telegraph says a second lockdown will worsen the already perilous non-Covid health crisis
  • “I will not let fear run my life again” – Moving piece in the Conservative Woman by Claire Ball about how she was once paralysed by fear, but no more
  • “Open Letter Concerning the Police Enforcement of ongoing COVID-19 restrictions” – Good letter from some Australian police officers, setting out the case against lockdown and arguing that asking them to enforce the absurd draconian rules is undermining public trust in the police
  • “Why has Boris closed the churches?” – Heartfelt piece by Melanie McDonagh in the Spectator
  • “Instead of lockdown, let’s create a National Shielding Service” – Patrick O’Flynn with a sensible suggestion
  • “Student, 26, who was infected while teaching English in Wuhan is found dead in his room at Bangor University after his mother says he ‘never got over hardship of lockdown in China’” – Tragic story of Britain’s first Covid case
  • “France’s independent bookshops struggle to survive a second lockdown” – A taste of what’s in store for our high streets after November 5th
  • “Wetherspoons launches four-day sale with real ale pints for just 99p before month-long national pub lockdown” – They’ll have to throw it away if it isn’t drunk
  • “Maajid Nawaz corners epidemiologist over cost of second lockdown” – Nawaz takes Prof Gabriel Scally to task on LBC for recommending a second lockdown without weighing up the potential costs
  • “Coronavirus in Sweden: An Update From Sweden’s Chief Epidemiologist” – Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s State Epidemiologist, corrects a few misunderstandings in recent headlines in an interview with Karen Donfried, President of the German Marshall Fund
  • “Democracy besieged” – Good long read in Spiked by Frank Furedi who’s just published a book called Democracy Under Siege: Don’t let Them Lock It Down
  • “Barricades in Madrid, clashes in Barcelona, looting in Logrono as anti-lockdown protests grip Spain” – A sample of the violent anti-lockdown protests sweeping Spain
  • Dr Eric Berg explains why the Covid death rate is so low – Hint: T-cells
  • “The 10 worst Covid decision-making failures” – Prof Carl Heneghan and Tom Jefferson list the biggest blunders the Government has made in the past eight months. Narrowing it down to 10 must have been difficult
  • “The State of Daniel Andrews: Victoria’s Governor Bligh” – Thoughtful critique of Dan Andrews, the Victorian state premier, by Peter Murphy in Quadrant
  • “A generation of youngsters has been betrayed” – Hugh Osmond, the founder of Punch Taverns, warns that thousands of pubs will not be reopening their doors after the damage done by a second lockdown

Theme Tunes Suggested by Readers

Just two today: “If You Wanna” by the Vaccines and “Here We Go Again Pt 1 and Pt 2” by the Isley Brothers.

Love in the Time of Covid

We have created some Lockdown Sceptics Forums, including a dating forum called “Love in a Covid Climate” that has attracted a bit of attention. We have a team of moderators in place to remove spam and deal with the trolls, but sometimes it takes a little while so please bear with us. You have to register to use the Forums, but that should just be a one-time thing. Any problems, email the Lockdown Sceptics webmaster Ian Rons here.

Sharing stories: Some of you have asked how to link to particular stories on Lockdown Sceptics. The answer used to be to first click on “Latest News”, then click on the links that came up beside the headline of each story. But we’ve changed that so the link now comes up beside the headline whether you’ve clicked on “Latest News” or you’re just on the Lockdown Sceptics home page. Please do share the stories with your friends and on social media.

Woke Gobbledegook

We’ve decided to create a permanent slot down here for woke gobbledegook. Today I’m highlighting a fantastic article by John Tamny in Forbes.

“I was shocked by how little dissent was tolerated at Harvard. Anyone who disagreed with the new orthodoxy was automatically branded a racist or a sexist or a homophobe.” “The prevailing orthodoxy was that concepts like ‘truth’ and ‘beauty’ had no place in contemporary education.” Intimacy with female Harvard students meant “you had to seek the woman’s formal permission at every stage in the seduction process.” One professor “had to abandon teaching his class on the ‘Peopling of America’ after he was dubbed ‘racially insensitive.’” His error was to talk about America’s native “population as ‘Indians’ rather than ‘Native Americans.’”

Harvard University has really gone over the edge. It’s hard to imagine that this is what’s happening at what is realistically the U.S.’s most prestigious university, if not the world’s. Higher education is surely in trouble, which means the U.S. is.

Of course the punch line to this weak attempt at a good set-up is that the above recollections weren’t those of a 2019 grad; rather they’re a few tidbits picked up from Toby Young’s classic 2001 memoir, How to Lose Friends and Alienate People. It seems Harvard was ahead of the political correctness pack as the 20th century closed until it’s understood that Young was writing about the Harvard he encountered in 1987. After graduating from Oxford, the essential Young (please bookmark his website Lockdown Sceptics) was given a Fulbright Award, which enabled him to spend a year at Harvard.

Up front, Young would likely admit that part of what makes him so interesting and entertaining is his use of playful exaggeration. We’re talking about someone talented enough to have worked at Vanity Fair in its heyday, but who wrote a memoir about all of all his blunders while there.

Looked at through the prism of his time at Harvard, it’s not unreasonable to speculate that Young cherry-picked the most egregious examples of political correctness. He might admit that the vast majority of students have grand ambitions for their lives after Harvard, many of them are financially motivated, which means most aren’t too politically active one way of the other. Young’s examples of PC-stupidity have a wow factor precisely because they’re kind of rare.

Still, for the purposes of this piece they’re a reminder that PC ridiculousness is hardly an early 21st century concept. It’s as old as higher education is.

Terrific piece and well worth reading in full.

Incidentally, if any readers are tempted to read How to Lose Friends and Alienate People on the back of these glowing references, you can purchase a copy on Amazon here.

Highly recommended.

“Mask Exempt” Lanyards

We’ve created a one-stop shop down here for people who want to buy (or make) a “Mask Exempt” lanyard/card. You can print out and laminate a fairly standard one for free here and it has the advantage of not explicitly claiming you have a disability. But if you have no qualms about that (or you are disabled), you can buy a lanyard from Amazon saying you do have a disability/medical exemption here (takes a while to arrive). The Government has instructions on how to download an official “Mask Exempt” notice to put on your phone here. You can get a “Hidden Disability” tag from ebay here and an “exempt” card with lanyard for just £1.99 from Etsy here. And, finally, if you feel obliged to wear a mask but want to signal your disapproval of having to do so, you can get a “sexy world” mask with the Swedish flag on it here.

Don’t forget to sign the petition on the UK Government’s petitions website calling for an end to mandatory face masks in shops here.

A reader has started a website that contains some useful guidance about how you can claim legal exemption.

And here’s an excellent piece about the ineffectiveness of masks by a Roger W. Koops, who has a doctorate in organic chemistry.

Mask Censorship: The Swiss Doctor has translated the article in a Danish newspaper about the suppressed Danish mask study. Largest RCT on the effectiveness of masks ever carried out. Rejected by three top scientific journals so far.

The Great Barrington Declaration

Professor Sunetra Gupta, Professor Martin Kulldorff and Professor Jay Bhattacharya

The Great Barrington Declaration, a petition started by Professor Martin Kulldorff, Professor Sunetra Gupta and Professor Jay Bhattacharya calling for a strategy of “Focused Protection” (protect the elderly and the vulnerable and let everyone else get on with life), was launched last month and the lockdown zealots have been doing their best to discredit it. If you Googled it a week after launch, the top hits were three smear pieces from the Guardian, including: “Herd immunity letter signed by fake experts including ‘Dr Johnny Bananas’.” (Freddie Sayers at UnHerd warned us about this hit job the day before it appeared.) On the bright side, Google UK has stopped shadow banning it, so the actual Declaration now tops the search results – and my Spectator piece about the attempt to suppress it is among the top hits – although discussion of it has been censored by Reddit. The reason the zealots hate it, of course, is that it gives the lie to their claim that “the science” only supports their strategy. These three scientists are every bit as eminent – more eminent – than the pro-lockdown fanatics so expect no let up in the attacks. (Wikipedia has also done a smear job.)

You can find it here. Please sign it. Now well over 600,000 signatures.

Update: The authors of the GDB have expanded the FAQs to deal with some of the arguments and smears that have been made against their proposal. Worth reading in full.

Judicial Reviews Against the Government

There are now so many JRs being brought against the Government and its ministers, we thought we’d include them all in one place down here.

First, there’s the Simon Dolan case. You can see all the latest updates and contribute to that cause here.

Then there’s the Robin Tilbrook case. You can read about that and contribute here.

Then there’s John’s Campaign which is focused specifically on care homes. Find out more about that here.

There’s the GoodLawProject’s Judicial Review of the Government’s award of lucrative PPE contracts to various private companies. You can find out more about that here and contribute to the crowdfunder here.

The Night Time Industries Association has instructed lawyers to JR any further restrictions on restaurants, pubs and bars.

Christian Concern is JR-ing the Welsh Government over its insistence on closing churches during the “circuit breaker”. See its letter-before-action here and an article about it here.

And last but not least there’s the Free Speech Union‘s challenge to Ofcom over its ‘coronavirus guidance’. You can read about that and make a donation here.

Samaritans

If you are struggling to cope, please call Samaritans for free on 116 123 (UK and ROI), email jo@samaritans.org or visit the Samaritans website to find details of your nearest branch. Samaritans is available round the clock, every single day of the year, providing a safe place for anyone struggling to cope, whoever they are, however they feel, whatever life has done to them.

Shameless Begging Bit

Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the past 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. Doing these daily updates is hard work (although we have help from lots of people, mainly in the form of readers sending us stories and links). If you feel like donating, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links we should include in future updates, email us here. (Don’t assume we’ll pick them up in the comments.)

And Finally…

If you’ve been watching the American Presidential election, you’re probably feeling pretty uninspired by the two candidates. However, the candidates in 2024 should be more impressive. Some of the Republican governors who refused to shut down their states – or made sure the shutdowns were as short as possible – are formidable politicians and none more so than Kristi Noem, the Governor of South Dakota. She says the most important lesson she’s learned about how best to cope with a pandemic is, “More freedom rather than more government is the answer.” You can watch a recent speech she made about how she responded to the crisis here. Among the highlights: “I didn’t even define what an essential business was because I didn’t think I had the authority to tell you your business isn’t essential.” And this, on modelling: “While modelling certainly has a place, models have two shortcomings today. No model can predict the future, especially when those models are based on incomplete information… [and] no model can replace human freedom as the best path for responding to our life’s risks, including in response to this virus. That is why central planning of the economy has failed us every single time the government has tried it.”

If Kristi is the Republican nominee in 2024, I’ll be tempted to campaign for her.

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2.2K Comments
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Bailie
Bailie
5 years ago

Good morning ??

11
-1
Sir Patrick Vaccine
Sir Patrick Vaccine
5 years ago
Reply to  Bailie

Hello – Write to YOUR OWN and EVERY MP and say ” I will NEVER VOTER CONSERVATIVE (LABOUR, …) AGAIN

Better than doing nothing

20
-1
Andrew Fish
Andrew Fish
5 years ago
Reply to  Sir Patrick Vaccine

I thought that might sound hyperbolic (and thus easy to dismiss), so I pointed that out and said that I wouldn’t vote Conservative whilst the current cabinet remained in place or my MP (the chief whip) remained as candidate for our seat.

9
0
Ovis
Ovis
5 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Fish

I will never vote for these dead parties. That is not hyperbole.

Is this hyperbole? ‘The Conservative and Labour Parties are terrorist groups, and should be wound up as banned organisations.’ Debatable, I think.

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0
Andrew Fish
Andrew Fish
5 years ago
Reply to  Ovis

I didn’t say it was hyperbole, I said it sounded like it. I’m sure MPs get people telling them they’ll never vote for them again all the time (often from people who don’t vote for them anyway). If you want to gain traction with them it’s generally best to make them think there’s a chance at redemption and, if after a series of communications it’s clear that has failed, to make it clear that it is them you have a problem with. If they can dismiss you as a crank, rather than as a representative of their electorate, it’s much easier for them convince themselves that your view doesn’t matter – and in the end we’re trying to change their views, not simply let off steam at them.

8
0
James Bertram
James Bertram
5 years ago
Reply to  Sir Patrick Vaccine

I wrote to my MP to say that if she supports lockdown by voting for it, or abstaining, on Wednesday then I will organise a local campaign to starve her party of local funding, and of local promotion and publicity. This will involve disinvestment in, and boycott of the products of, her personal business interests; of all of her local party funders; of all businesses which provide her a platform for publicity/promotion; of of all local media outlets that promote her and her government lockdown policies (by writing to and boycotting the products of that outlet’s advertisers). I shall copy this to her Party Chairman.

In other words, I will make sure that my MP is accountable for her decision on Wednesday; and if she votes (or abstains) for this ludicrous and totally disproportionate lockdown, one that Dr Mike Yeadon has described as without scientific basis and part of a government fraud, one that destroys so many livelihoods, resulting in mental illness and suicide, then she and her local party must suffer the consequences.

Too, with today’s news, I will now leaflet for The Reform Party in my area, in support of the Great Barrington Declaration.

26
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William Gruff
William Gruff
5 years ago
Reply to  James Bertram

Burning at the stake in the market place is much less effort and far more effective.

2
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Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  James Bertram

Wow kudos to you sir!

3
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Sir Patrick Vaccine

I just wrote to mine, using info from today’s Update, to point out the arrogance and egregious mendacity of Saturday’s broadcast and asking him to stand up for Parliamentary democracy and our Constitutional rights.

I don’t hold much hope but I do keep trying to make him think and stop just swallowing the official bollox.

Even if we don’t sink into complete totalitarianism, it’s four years till the election, so stamping your foot and saying you’ll never vote Tory again isn’t really going to move many mountains.

I’ve pasted a link to a template. You just fill in a few contact details and it will send an anti-lockdown letter to your MP.

I’m asking everyone to do that. Let’s at least flood their inboxes, show that we won;t take tis lying down!

Here’s the link again. Please keep bumping it:
https://saveourrights.uk/lockdown-resistance/

8
0
Banjones
Banjones
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

”… till the next election…”
Now THERE’s optimism! I’m beginning to think there will never be another GE as we’d recognise it.
Thanks for the link.

Last edited 5 years ago by Banjones
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0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Banjones

The bit before it was the main point:
Even if we don’t sink into complete totalitarianism,

1
0
William Gruff
William Gruff
5 years ago
Reply to  Banjones

Elections are a thing of the past.

1
0
ConstantBees
ConstantBees
5 years ago
Reply to  Sir Patrick Vaccine

Just did that, although I didn’t vote for him in the first place (Tobias Ellwood). Edited Toby’s draft above to suit. Better than just screaming F**** off with your f***** lockdown, I thought.

4
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  ConstantBees

Ellwood comes across as throughly unpleasant who cares little for his constituents get him recalled as a member of parliament

4
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Adam

He’s a much bigger fish than merely a thoroughly unpleasant and callous individual.

Watch this:
https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-30th-september-2020

1
0
Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago
Reply to  Adam

One who should be sent to the Tower when this shit show ends.

2
0
Jo
Jo
5 years ago
Reply to  Sir Patrick Vaccine

Trouble is, I’ve never voted Conservative or Labour.

0
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  Jo

I voted for the SDP and will again I joined them in April

0
0
Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago

Third again. I need to try harder.

Last edited 5 years ago by Mabel Cow
5
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IanE
IanE
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

No, no: just wait a bit longer and you can join our chorus – “Je suis No. 6”.

4
0
Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

Behold, Panscepticon, a mirror of the comments from Lockdown Sceptics.

Known issues:

  1. Images posted to comments aren’t shown. The image is still accessible, you just need to click on the link to view it. The problem is being caused by a server-side content-security-policy header that I need to disable.
  2. The search box doesn’t work. This is because the site hasn’t yet been indexed by Google or Bing, so DuckDuckGo hasn’t got any search results to show.

I have a backlog of features I want to add, such as an index of posts by user, a list of all links ever posted, etc. Please advise if you have any particular requirements.

Please also let me know if you are uncomfortable with what I have done. It’s not really any different to what the search engines do, but I may well be overlooking something obvious. As a programmer, I tend to be more concerned about what I can do, and less concerned about whether I should be doing it.

7
0
Julian
Julian
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

It’s great. An index of posts by user by day would be good. I tend to periodically search for my name to see what developments there have been on threads I have commented on – I use CTRL+F but on a full day’s comments it is a pain to get the whole page to load. Your site is already a step forward as it seems to preload everything. Maybe you should contact TY and see if he would like to provide a link above the line and announce it.

3
0
Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago
Reply to  Julian

FYI, there’s no particular requirement for the pages to be arranged by day. My web scraper creates its own database of all comments across time, so we can slice-and-dice them however it suits us. Multiple views on the same data is no problem at all.

1
0
Mabel Cow
Mabel Cow
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

FYI, if you save any of the daily pages from Panscepticon and then open the saved .htm file, you will see all of the images from the posts.

The images are only suppressed when the page is viewed directly from the web server.

2
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Mabel Cow

Wow, what a brilliant resource!

0
0
Cristi.Neagu
Cristi.Neagu
5 years ago

All of these people belong in jail. Boris, Hancock, SAGE, all of them. This is getting hard to pass as criminal incompetence. It’s bordering on genocide through lockdown.

Last edited 5 years ago by Cristi.Neagu
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0
BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
5 years ago
Reply to  Cristi.Neagu

I think that a break in the armour could do it. For example, if Dolan’s case for a judicial review is successful that could be one. We actually need something soon because the data arguments, while strong, show that they have too much power to own the narrative. They can cherry pick the data, they can embellish their models with all sorts of doom-laden parameters, and people suck it up. While opposition has grown in recent months, its kind of plateauing. Those is positions of influence continue to keep their concerns to themselves, if they have any, and simply follow the herd. How can that be pierced? There was an anti-lockdown protest in my town yesterday, it was awfully attended and there were as many police as protestors. Fines handed out and it was pouring down on them to boot. I sat around a breakfast table yesterday with two doctors and a theatre nurse. They hadn’t a sceptical thought to share. They kind of recognised that we haven’t really been following the rules in terms of family mixing and such, but also said that it was right that all businesses had closed locally to save the NHS again. I had… Read more »

Last edited 5 years ago by BeBopRockSteady
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0
Cecil B
Cecil B
5 years ago
Reply to  BeBopRockSteady

Yes the court case could be the soonest way out

If not the morons will eventually get fed up of wearing masks, no pubs, no family, no holiday, no theatres. no cinemas, no cafes, Piers Morgan, no sport, no gyms, no restaurants, smug MP’s, no Christmas, no money, no medical care, no food, huge debts, no humour, Marcus Rashford, no weddings, no job, no birthdays, no friends, no home. and endless lectures by the pig dictator

Have I left anything out?

23
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Alethea
Alethea
5 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

no hope

10
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  BeBopRockSteady

It seems today that Mr Farage has become the first person of national influence to nail his colours to the mast with his anti-lockdown party. It may not be much, but it’s a glimmer of hope because up until now all we’ve had is non-approved journalists and a few celebrities and backbench MPs talking about it and being soundly ignored.

9
0
Jamie
Jamie
5 years ago
Reply to  Cranmer

Have you listened to the mainstream news today? (I’ve decided not to listen to it to protect my mental health!)

How are they reporting it, and where is it on the headline list?

4
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  Jamie

I can’t listen to it anymore I deliberately harmed myself recently out of frustration by the actions of this government and their cohorts in the press I have the stitches in my head to prove it I put my head through a window my gp kindly helped me, We have to restore our way of life

5
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Adam

Wow. Buy yourself a punchball. More effective and definitely safer.
I hope you’re all healed up now.

3
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  Cranmer

It is our duty to protect our liberties from Rogue governments

5
0
Banjones
Banjones
5 years ago
Reply to  Cristi.Neagu

It’s the fact that Johnson probably doesn’t do his OWN research that is so disturbing. What a dereliction of duty THAT is.
Or, if he does do it, then he truly is uncaring, self-serving, arrogant and ignorant. Not his own man, but in thrall to those he’s happy to use, self-serving and arrogant as they are themselves.

12
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Jamie
Jamie
5 years ago
Reply to  Banjones

Johnson only cares about his own popularity

7
0
dommo
dommo
5 years ago
Reply to  Cristi.Neagu

what it actually is is gross negligence manslaughter, an indictable criminal offence with a maximum sentence of life in prison – it just needs to be reported to the police and they’ll take it from there…

2
0
Mibi
Mibi
5 years ago
Reply to  Cristi.Neagu

Agree! It’s time to fight back. https://thewhiterose.uk/

3
0
Cristi.Neagu
Cristi.Neagu
5 years ago

Seems like everyone is capable of making a prediction that turns out to be correct. Everyone except anyone in charge, that is. I predicted since April-June that there will be a second lockdown around October-November, and here we are.

19
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Jamie
Jamie
5 years ago
Reply to  Cristi.Neagu

I’ve been telling everybody who will listen that the lockdown in April sets a pretty low bar in terms of a precedent for lockdowns, because if it’s not this then we are going to lockdown in every bad flu year and for any new virus, which as we all know here, happens on a fairly regular basis. It’s clear that people still have no perspective or idea of the proportionality of these measures and we are fast approaching an ad infinitum state of lockdowns for some years to come. People though are still pretending to follow ‘the science’ which is designed purely and simply to scare them into submission.

For what? To stop Boris Johnson cancelling xmas and being unpopular in the polls, because this has long ceased to be about health.

I’m afraid we are entering a new medieval age, where policy is based on superstition and fear, enforceable only by the suppression of human freedom

Last edited 5 years ago by Jamie
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Cristi.Neagu
Cristi.Neagu
5 years ago
Reply to  Jamie

Polls show that about 3 quarters of people are in favour of lockdowns. Now, that sounds completely implausible to me, but even so, these polls have the effect of discouraging dissent. How is someone privately thinking these lockdowns are too much going to speak up if they believe almost everyone around them is against them? Surely, they must be right, right? These are all techniques that governments and their media lackeys have perfected over the past decade.

8
0
Jamie
Jamie
5 years ago
Reply to  Cristi.Neagu

Totally agree. I’m becoming more and more convinced that the polls have been manipulated for that very reason, I find them more and more unbelievable. It’s definitely contributing to why people are scared to discuss it in a sensible way.There’s also a point about political identity and tribalism I think, there’s some classic divide and rule tactics being used here … I try and discuss this with nearly everyone I get to speak to on a one to one basis, quite a broad range, a lot of them have been complete strangers, on the phone to customer services, estate agents, colleagues (I work for Citizens Advice (leftie/liberal?), family/friends, and I’d say there’s probably a majority that are sceptical and are quite perceptive to the cost-benefit argument in particular, all the rest are blatantly coming from a political stand-point, mentioning right wingers, Cummings, Brexiteers, Trump … but there’s definitely more than that number who are sceptical, or at least open to a different standpoint. Others have mentioned that surveys can be manipulated and I think this has happened here, the questions are probably not very nuanced and if they were you would get a much broader and nuanced response. Covid doesn’t… Read more »

2
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Jamie

I posted a link to one in the DT last night. The questions were unashamedly biased and it was easy to see what the desired result would be. Needless to say I didn’t complete it!

1
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  Cristi.Neagu

Opinion polls have always been bullshit they should be banned in America they put Joe Biden ahead I think Trump will be re-elected president and no one sane supports lockdowns unless Retarded

2
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  Jamie

Since the red graph of predictions ‘that are not predictions’ failed to deliver millions of deaths by mid-October, it’s been clear that continued lockdown measures are simply establishing all the apparatus of tyranny. Whether that is their goal or not, it is the likely outcome if nothing is done. Most people simply cannot see this and still think this is all temporary to ‘control the virus’.

4
0
Jamie
Jamie
5 years ago
Reply to  Cranmer

In history, it is extremely rare that tyrannical law is ever relinquished without one hell of a fight …

3
0
ColoradoGirl
ColoradoGirl
5 years ago

The same insane predictions are being used to scare Americans into further lockdowns.

My own local paper published a scare-mongering article quoting the Colorado Department of Health. They stated the following:
“The state could see 7,600 total deaths due to the virus by the end of the year if the current trajectory is not changed, according to the report. As of Thursday, the state had seen 2,105 deaths due to COVID-19, and 2,278 deaths among cases.

If Coloradans decrease social-distancing by 10% due to holiday gatherings, deaths could rise to 10,000. A 20% decrease in social distancing would result in 13,400 deaths, according to the report.”

So, in eight months, we saw 2100 deaths, but in the next month and a half, 8000 more will die? How is that even possible?

This is all based on a model by the Colorado University system. If you decrease the percentage of social distancing, the program will spit out the number of how many more will die.

Our freedoms are now subject to some bogus mathematical equation.

63
0
NY
NY
5 years ago
Reply to  ColoradoGirl

They’re not decreasing anything, just postponing. It’s bullshit, and these numbers are likely a crock of shit too.

14
0
ColoradoGirl
ColoradoGirl
5 years ago
Reply to  NY

They are obviously a crock. How people can’t see that is what I don’t understand.

10
0
MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG
MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG
5 years ago
Reply to  NY

‘Postponing’ is another myth. The CV19 epidemic is over. However, and sadly, people are going to die every day, some of respiratory illnesses. 1,600+ people die every day in the UK of all causes. We really need to get our heads round this and help others to do so.

Who would you rather believe on this – Mike Yeadon, the GBD scientists etc or SAGE and their counterparts in other countries? MW

5
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  ColoradoGirl

Yet British people always smugly belittle Americans at least they fight for themselves people in Britain would rather watch shit like eastenders BGT etc

17
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  ColoradoGirl

I cut myself shaving yesterday, and twice today. If this current trajectory is not changed, I will die from loss of blood sometime in mid-2021.

9
0
Tom Blackburn
Tom Blackburn
5 years ago

Billboard: The Strokes Rock ‘The New Abnormal’ on ‘Saturday Night Live’.
https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/9476611/the-strokes-new-abnormal-songs-saturday-night-live/

1
0
Kristian Short
Kristian Short
5 years ago
Reply to  Tom Blackburn

Great album.

0
0
Ceriain
Ceriain
5 years ago

All LS members should read the full ‘The Covid Physician‘ piece Toby has summarised above.
https://dailysceptic.org/truth-in-the-timeline-of-covid/

If true, and I have no doubt it is; it’s both utterly astonishing and disgraceful.

21
0
Marialta
Marialta
5 years ago
Reply to  Ceriain

Absolutely shocking. The criminal negligence the doctor describes should frighten any sane person. It’s a particularly helpful piece if you have family members who are NHS workers who toe the
party line. It may get them to question what management are forcing on them. READ and SHARE please.

12
0
Llamasaurus Rex
Llamasaurus Rex
5 years ago
Reply to  Ceriain

Agreed….we should all read this. It’s a fantastic piece. Shocking is an understatement. Not surprising for us here, but the detail and writing quality is very compelling.

5
0
Caroline Watson
Caroline Watson
5 years ago
Reply to  Ceriain

It is mind blowing. Very little we didn’t know and no tin hat hyperbole, but all the more mind blowing for it.
One thing stands out. If the purpose of lockdowns is to prevent hospitals from becoming overwhelmed, surely the first line of defence must be to treat people who are moderately ill with respiratory infections of all kinds in their own homes. And yet GPs are apparently not allowed to do this. Why not?
He also confirms my belief that attitudes changed in the early summer after the BLM and then the XR protests, particularly on the centre left. Keir Starmer was, rightly, calling for an exit strategy from the lockdown. Then he ‘took the knee’ and, suddenly, he wasn’t. Why?

Working in agriculture, I have never been a fan of Nigel Farage but he has a unique ability to get under the skin of the Tories and change their course. His intervention in this instance is a welcome relief.

12
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  Caroline Watson

Yes. I had an actual physical sense of relief when I heard Mr Farage was entering the fight. I know he gets a lot of stick – controlled opposition, etc – but at least it’s SOMETHING.

2
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Cranmer

Yes I’m backing him solely for his irritant factor. Hopefully he’ll split the majority and the MPs will stop voting like sheep.

1
0
BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
5 years ago
Reply to  Ceriain

Its tremendous writing.

3
0
iansn
iansn
5 years ago
Reply to  Ceriain

Well worth the read. Staggering is an understatement

4
0
Cecil B
Cecil B
5 years ago

The pig dictator has lied so much he has gone mad

27
0
Two-Six
Two-Six
5 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

Cecil, do you think Cameron shagged Boris?

6
0
Cecil B
Cecil B
5 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

Think? I know, I was there and I have it recorded on my phone

5
0
Alethea
Alethea
5 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

so THAT is the truth of the pig’s head story!!

I knew Isabel Oakeshott wasn’t making it up

3
0
Sir Patrick Vaccine
Sir Patrick Vaccine
5 years ago

Write to YOUR OWN and EVERY MP and say ” I will NEVER VOTER CONSERVATIVE (LABOUR, …) AGAIN

Better than doing nothing

10
0
Biker
Biker
5 years ago
Reply to  Sir Patrick Vaccine

Tell them you’re voting for Reform UK and can’t wait to make Nigel Farage PM. it’s come down to this but mark my words i truly believe that the people will vote him in. If all the people pissed off about Brexit stand up these lying motherfuckers will be out on their compromised ear.

31
-1
ConstantBees
ConstantBees
5 years ago
Reply to  Biker

Biker, I’m a lefty liberal. The last person to vote for anyone associated with Brexit, and when I heard Richard Tice talking to Julia Hartley-Brewer this morning, I was ready to vote for their party. Have to wait and see if they hold the line, but it looks like I’ve gone from Guardian reader to a libertarian in less than a year. Probably my American forebears kicking in.

4
0
Cecil B
Cecil B
5 years ago

It’s a well known phenomena that fraudsters favour round figures

When going through the books fraud investigators are trained to look at the round figures first ( trust me I know)

Think about it, if x +y -h etc are chucked into a computer model how likely is it that the results would be 500,000 or 250,000 or 4,000?

It would appear that pigs are not very good at smelling out rats

Or is it that rats can’t spot a pig when they see it?

Last edited 5 years ago by Cecil B
13
0
John Stone
John Stone
5 years ago

Have just written to my MP Catherine West under the heading ‘Ruinous policies must end – I wanted to say something particularly about the moral position of Labour’: Dear Catherine, I have little hope that writing to you will make any difference but every citizen has a duty to make their views known in this catastrophic situation. One of the problems of the present situation is that the government is not even making the data available on which they are acting, and much of it seems quite as dodgy as that made up to make us go to war with Iraq all those years ago. I am tearing my hair out at the endlessly holier-than-thou approach of Labour which takes these worst case scenarios at face value without even apparently asking to see them, thus for ever up-staging the government. I do not think this alright – it will always be possible for Labour to pretend it would get a better result, but frankly (political opportunism aside) it is hard to see any merit in this behaviour. Meanwhile, the economy is cynically burnt to the ground in a way from which it can never possibly regenerate, leaving our children and… Read more »

18
0
Cristi.Neagu
Cristi.Neagu
5 years ago

It still amazes me how people can still wonder “But what do they have to gain from this pandemic if they’re making it up?” So gullible…

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/gilead-unexpectedly-cashes-in-with-nearly-900-million-in-sales-of-covid-19-drug-2020-10-29

11
0
Barney McGrew
Barney McGrew
5 years ago

The only light in the gloom is the knowledge that these idiots are doing this to themselves. The MPs have the power to save the future of the UK, but if they don’t (“Ooh, we mustn’t stress the NHS like that nice Mr. Ferguson says will happen. Best to ruin the whole country instead”), then they go down too. I feel sorry for their kids, but the MPs will know what they did to them. I hope it haunts them forever.

18
0
Recusant
Recusant
5 years ago
Reply to  Barney McGrew

The one thing we can be sure of is that in a year’s time lots of pathetic MPs will be saying “don’t blame us, we had to believe the scientists.” Just as Robin Cook saw through the Weapons of Mass Destruction lies, any MP with a brain and integrity should be able to see through this crap. The reason that they don’t see it is that they choose not to see it.

32
0
Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  Recusant

The reason why they don’t see it is that they have very little brain and absolutely no integrity.

13
0
Biker
Biker
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

The reason they don’t see it is because they’re all compromised so can’t see it out of self preservation. Half them are kiddie fuckers the other half are fraudsters and philanderers. You don’t imagine for a second that the evil bastards that rule over us no problem whatsoever would let just anyone run the “government”? I’m afraid when you’re a kiddie fucker you don’t give two shits about normal people.Sounds mad i know but i 100% believe it. Just ask those that covered for Sir Jimmy Savile what they know.

17
-2
Christopher
Christopher
5 years ago
Reply to  Biker

Hit the Nail on head again Biker , see the comments made by former Torie chief whip Tim Fortescue on the BBC in 1995 ( Still up on you tube ) about how they use Kiddie fiddling and financial fraud etc as leverage to get MP’s to vote the right way.
And the same goes for all the major parties i have no doubt .
They do not give a F#cking shit about the people of this country.

12
-2
Two-Six
Two-Six
5 years ago
Reply to  Biker

Blackmail is the glue that holds “The Establishment” together.

4
-1
GCarty80
GCarty80
5 years ago
Reply to  Two-Six

David Brin nailed it:

Political Blackmail: The Hidden Danger to Public Servants

Last edited 5 years ago by GCarty80
2
-1
JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  GCarty80

Blackmail it certainly is.

And if that doesn’t work, if deemed necessary, you’ll be found dead in the woods or zipped up in a holdall.

Last edited 5 years ago by JohnB
6
-1
Steven F
Steven F
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnB

Why has Steve Baker suddenly jumped ship? He didn’t look happy about it. Any ideas?

0
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

I can’t decide whether mine really is so thick.
I actually think he might be!

0
0
Marcus
Marcus
5 years ago

Of course SAGE have gone for as high a figure – 4000 – as they think they can get away with. This way when we’re nowhere near that in a few weeks time and reality looks nothing like their ‘projections’ they’ll be able to say that it’s only because of the total lockdown.

26
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karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Marcus

The Met Office have a section whose function is to look back on all their projections to see how they compared to reality.
Isn’t there someone keeping track of all of SAGEs ludicrous predictions that turn out to be, predictably, wrong?

7
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Sage needs disbanding Johnson should be removed https://www.remove-the-tory-government.org

5
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

I track my past predictions to look for consistency – but I don’t make prononcements beyond six weeks with any confidence. If you predict the weather will look the same tomorrow as today, in the UK you’ll be right more than half of the time. Pretty good odds actually. A week is reasonable, a month is too far. Epidemics are a little more short-term predictable, but two months is a very long time.

2
-1
JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

If weather forecasters can be accurate more than 2.5 to 3 days ahead, they’ve kept their secret very well ! 🙂

4
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

If you predict the weather will look the same tomorrow as today, in the UK you’ll be right more than half of the time.

You don’t live where I do!

1
0
Richard
Richard
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/the-innacuracoes-in-the-sage-models/

Carl H on the case basically exposing that the age in the models allows them to bench mark 1st November projections – so we are at 200 deaths rather than the 1,000 the Cambridge model was represented as saying.

5
0
BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
5 years ago
Reply to  Richard

So take that, with the knowledge that Boris is locking down on such data. The MPs cannot stand up and say lockdown is justified based on those numbers. Because they are not correct, simple as that.

So that means any pro Lockdown MP is basing their decision on no relevant data, but fear. They are not rational in their decision making and need to be removed.

They may say, but cases are rising still – but they would need to show their own modelling at that point to show that this will overwhelm the NHS. For the official modelling is not accurate.

Again, they haven’t a leg to stand on. They need to be removed.

2
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

What do you think?

0
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  Marcus

It doesn’t matter any more what they predict. They’ve just imposed lockdown using the same trick they used before (claiming that there would be huge numbers of deaths by mid-October while at the same time saying ‘this is not a prediction’) and nobody has questioned it. The mass of ordinary people don’t even remember it and probably didn’t take any notice of it first time round. They can say whatever they want and people will either ignore it or believe it.

4
0
Cecil B
Cecil B
5 years ago

I have a model

The public will go with what the media say
The media will go with what the politicians tell them
The politicians will follow the public opinion
The public opinion will follow the media

Repeat ad infinitum.

My model will produce the same result every time you run it ( unlike the one used by Fergusonovic)

18
0
Cecil B
Cecil B
5 years ago

Can a wolf cry pig?

13
0
Recusant
Recusant
5 years ago

The lockdown is going to be incredibly popular because for most people there is no downside. If you are retired, or a public sector worker, or an office worker who doesn’t like their job anyway, there is no downside to lockdown + free money. The idea of democracy as elections is insufficient: democracy is elections plus individual freedoms, and we are learning how a quickly country that forgets the individual freedoms blows up.

26
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Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  Recusant

No downside? With no cultural life of any sort, no social life, no shopping, no travel, no family life outside your own prison walls?

My. God, not only are they zombies, but they must have been born zombies.

53
0
Recusant
Recusant
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Well, they will complain bitterly at how crap the country has become and demand to know who did this.

13
0
Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Eat out to stay stout?
That was a bad shout.

11
0
Marialta
Marialta
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

https://medium.com/matter/the-shut-in-economy-ec3ec1294816

This explains the allure of staying at home. Takeaways, online shopping, Netflix, social media, why go out and mix in the dirty outside world? The new normal. A pandemic helps of course.

8
0
CGL
CGL
5 years ago
Reply to  Recusant

I’m not a public sector worker, but I have worked at home (in a job I don’t particularly like) since March except for an odd day. My OH has too. But we have never understood those who can’t see the downside. Since day one I said if this goes on too long there will be nothing to go outside for. The devastating downsides for every single one of us ultimately, were all too apparent from me all the way through this apocalypse.

36
0
Coronamoana
Coronamoana
5 years ago
Reply to  Recusant

There is most definitely a downside for everyone: my business involves face-to-face and yet I am now doing it through a computer screen, which is far from satisfactory; I cannot participate in any of the activities that make life joyful; I cannot see my family and friends; going anywhere at all is stressful with the current measures in place. no matter where you reside in the human life-cycle, you are affected. At the moment it seems to be polarised between the future of children and the life expectancy of the elderly – everybody alive has a right to live their life.

22
0
Recusant
Recusant
5 years ago
Reply to  Coronamoana

To be clear, I completely agree with you, the downsides are massive. I agree with Trump, “don’t let it dominate your life.” I just think that most people prefer to be dominated by it.

9
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  Coronamoana

This whole farce is unsustainable Johnson is a utter disgrace and needs to be removed ASAP

16
0
karenovirus
karenovirus
5 years ago
Reply to  Coronamoana

The only remaining rights are to work, shop and receive minimal education.
No more unproductive activity like going to museums, singing, visiting friends and family, going to a concert or to the football.
Welcome to digital thralldom.

9
0
Jamie
Jamie
5 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

It is true that the only reason we can possibly enact these measures is because of the internet. If the internet went down for any serious length of time we’d all have to get back to normal, there wouldn’t be a choice.

6
0
ConstantBees
ConstantBees
5 years ago
Reply to  Jamie

The government also wouldn’t be able to control the public as well. It is the internet that spreads their latest diktats. If we didn’t have phones and computers to receive them, we wouldn’t even know there was anything happening. When newspapers were printed on paper, most people didn’t even read them, maybe just bored commuters.

2
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  Coronamoana

You wrote ‘I cannot see my family and friends’. That ought to read ‘I may not see my friends, according to state diktat’. ‘Cannot’ and ‘may not’ are two very different things and for the sake of all our freedoms, we need to remember that. I will say no more, but ‘he who has ears to hear, let him hear….’

Last edited 5 years ago by Cranmer
4
0
Stephanos
Stephanos
5 years ago
Reply to  Recusant

I am semi-retired and I hate all this lockdown nonsense intensely. There are plenty of ‘downsides’ for me: I used to go to the Bodleian in Oxford for study purposes (Greek, Latin, Syriac). Now I have to ‘book up’ for a precise day 2 weeks in advance. To be fair to others I can only book one library – there is not the possibility of visiting two or even three. Occasionally, my wife and I would visit country houses on the spur of the moment. Now you have to book up and engage in a fight not to wear a disgusting face-nappy and there are all the ludicrous and patronising one-way systems. Horrible. We used to visit museums quite a bit. We ALWAYS spent a LONG time in a museum; on one occasion, visiting the Uffizi in Firenze, we took so long they were shutting the doors after us as we went out. A museum like the Ashmolean in Oxford is so big that one cannot ‘visit’ it one day; best to do a bit at a time. Is this possible now? Probably not with yellow-jacketed jobsworths hovering around. I teach Greek and Latin to small groups of adults (hence… Read more »

37
0
Caroline Watson
Caroline Watson
5 years ago
Reply to  Recusant

I am a semi retired public sector worker and I hate it! We do have lives outside work! And not all public sector workers are Whitehall officials. Some of us are out in the community, working with business people; in my case rural businesses which are heavily dependent on tourism. I also live in a rural community and can see the effects on my neighbours and their children. We don’t live in bubbles, even if the government would like us to!

10
0
Jamie
Jamie
5 years ago
Reply to  Recusant

I’m working from home, I work for a national charity, not the public sector, but I am one of the lucky ones I guess, like the public sector office workers you describe. This though isn’t good for me, I’ve been in my home for 8 months, and 2 months ago I was forced to leave my first lockdown flat because my landlord had financial difficulties caused by covid. Even though I am one of the lucky ones in terms of keeping my job, my mental and physical health has suffered, Moreover though I am so angry that the already vulnerable, the ones who were already disadvantaged economically will take the greatest hit, and I care about the truth, democracy and the future of human and civil rights. Public sector or office workers cannot be homogenised into one group and I fear this culture war kind of argument will put off large swathes of people who think for themselves but who don’t like being disrespected in such a way. The government, the opposition and scientists want to make this an argument between the virtuous and the uncaring, let’s not do something similar here, let’s not ‘other’ potential seceptics for simply being… Read more »

8
0
ConstantBees
ConstantBees
5 years ago
Reply to  Jamie

I’ve worked from home for years, so in some ways my life hasn’t changed. However, I live as a lodger and I’m becoming increasingly concerned that my landlord is in financial trouble. Tenants keep leaving, some because they can’t afford rent. Others stay, but can’t pay. I worry that I’ll end up having to move because the landlord loses the house.

However, my potential problems are nothing compared to the devastation around us all. The increasing numbers of suicides are especially disheartening.

2
0
Recusant
Recusant
5 years ago

Starmer’s support for lockdown (the Tory rebellion is futile, Labour will never let lockdown fail) shows conclusively that Labour is not the party for workers any more. No worker could possibly support lockdown.

94
0
Biker
Biker
5 years ago
Reply to  Recusant

Labour have never been the party of the worker or they’d advocate Austrian Economics instead of communism. We are their cattle, we are their food, we are giant babies unable to support ourselves. Hard times for those of us who value individualism and freedom for ourselves over conformists and statists.

33
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Llamasaurus Rex
Llamasaurus Rex
5 years ago
Reply to  Biker

Spot on.

8
0
Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  Biker

I have never voted for Labor or conservative I completely despise them thank God I support the SDP

2
0
GCarty80
GCarty80
5 years ago
Reply to  Biker

Wouldn’t Georgist economics be far better for the working class?

1
0
Llamasaurus Rex
Llamasaurus Rex
5 years ago
Reply to  Recusant

Labour is, together with Unliddems and The Tories, a profoundly anti worker party. They despise us.

11
0
CGL
CGL
5 years ago
Reply to  Llamasaurus Rex

My email to my MP said that you can’t put a pin between Con and Lab now and both parties are irrelevant. That she wouldn’t have another opportunity to serve again.

18
0
Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago
Reply to  Recusant

Never was especially when the upper middle classes infiltrated the party The likes of the Webbs and more recently the Islington set has had always deep contempt for the working class and their values. That’s the reason why they supported mass immigration and EU freedom of movement – it was to dilute the working class and replace them with people who would be more sympathetic to their ideas.

Yesterday I overheard a working class bloke tell his friend that while he voted Labour until the late 2000s he stopped voting for them as never liked Corbyn and doesn’t like and trust Starmer. He also added that Labour never “got” the working class with their aspirations for a better life and their desire to earn an honest living and not be reliant on handouts.

23
0
Andrew Fish
Andrew Fish
5 years ago
Reply to  Recusant

But Labour have deliberately abstained thus far – no doubt so they can later claim not to have been responsible for the damage – so if there were a sizeable enough Tory rebellion then (a) Labour would have to know it was going to happen in order to get off their hands and vote, (b) it would require there to be no similar division in the Labour ranks and (c) it would undermine their strategy of deniability. That’s not to underplay the size of the rebellion needed, but it’s not quite as simple as it seems.

6
0
Victoria
Victoria
5 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Fish

Labour failed to oppose any of these illegal acts – they are complicit

11
0
Andrew Fish
Andrew Fish
5 years ago
Reply to  Victoria

I agree, but that’s not how they’ll spin it.

4
0
Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Fish

And we have to remind the populace that Labour was complicit and even wanted something much, much worse.

Ad infinitum.

3
0
Nsklent
Nsklent
5 years ago

What happened to the Human Rights Act? Freedom of movement, mobility rights, or the right to travel is a human rights concept encompassing the right of individuals to travel from place to place within the territory of a country,[1] and to leave the country and return to it. The right includes not only visiting places, but changing the place where the individual resides or works.[1][2]

Such a right is provided in the constitutions of numerous states, and in documents reflecting norms of international law. For example, Article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights asserts that:

“Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.”
“Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.”[3]

20
0
Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  Nsklent

Well, parliament does have a Human Rights Committee, and as you can see from this:

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/93/human-rights-joint-committee/news/119398/committee-publishes-proposed-amendment-to-new-government-coronavirus-lockdown-measures/

it is striving night and day to safeguard our essential rights.

Ha. Hs. Ha bloody ha.

10
0
Polemon2
Polemon2
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

As of now, access available.

1
0
ConstantBees
ConstantBees
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Members of that committee. Lots from the House of Lords.

  • Rt Hon Harriet Harman QC MP, Labour, Camberwell and Peckham Chair Commons
  • The Rt Hon. the Lord Brabazon of Tara DL, Conservative, Excepted Hereditary Lords
  • Fiona Bruce MP, Conservative, Congleton Commons
  • Ms Karen Buck MP, Labour, Westminster North Commons
  • Joanna Cherry QC MP, Scottish National Party,Edinburgh South West Commons
  • The Lord Dubs, Labour, Life peer Lords
  • Mrs Pauline Latham MP, Conservative, Mid Derbyshire Commons
  • The Baroness Ludford, Liberal Democrat, Life peer Lords
  • The Baroness Massey of Darwen, Labour, Life peer Lords
  • Dean Russell MP, Conservative, Watford Commons
  • The Lord Singh of Wimbledon CBE, Crossbench, Life peer Lords
  • The Rt Hon. the Lord Trimble, Conservative, Life peer Lords
1
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt5801/jtselect/jtrights/265/26502.htm

Worked for me.

0
0
Nsklent
Nsklent
5 years ago
Reply to  Nsklent

I was merely raising the point – there are plenty of countries that take little notice of international human rights, and I have lived in some of them, but for some strange reason I actually thought our country was first world not third world and cherished our human rights. What is the point of creating so called international standards, if they can be merely deleted with no legal consequence. So the Nuremberg code regarding forced medication / coercion will be equally dismissed.

5
0
Marialta
Marialta
5 years ago
Reply to  Nsklent

The Nuremberg code will stand but will actually become less relevant.

I shared your ‘strange reason’ too, until I started investigating all this.

You will need proof of vaccination to travel, to attend school etc or enter certain premises.

This is the Chinese way of tracking and it’s coming down the line. CONSENT is the issue we all need to be addressing.

7
0
cloud6
cloud6
5 years ago
Reply to  Nsklent

Human Rights Act ? only for some, Britain was a main contributor to this declaration when it was first designed (which Europe had long before the UK), only in 1998 was it bought into UK Law. There is a get out of jail clause for all the right’s enshrined in it.

The Law is a sop to the public just like the FOI act.

2
-1
JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  Nsklent

Unless you have the 2nd Amendment, or an equivalent, all the high-sounding treaties, conventions, and acts in the world are just pieces of paper.

For Heaven’s sake, mankind, you’ve been told this for centuries, and had it repeated in detail over the last few decades. If you dismissed it as ‘far-right ranting’, or ‘Americans are crazy’, who is to blame ?

2
-1
ConstantBees
ConstantBees
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnB

Perhaps you’ve seen how American police now use military weapons and equipment. I don’t know how someone with the best weapon available in gun stores can stand up against a drone attack.

2
-1
JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  ConstantBees

Research is your friend.

0
0
Sophie123
Sophie123
5 years ago
Reply to  Nsklent

Are the restrictions to travel actual law? or just “advice”?

0
0
ConstantBees
ConstantBees
5 years ago
Reply to  Sophie123

The page is called “guidance” but I’m not sure what that means in actual fact.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november#travel

2
0
Cranmer
Cranmer
5 years ago
Reply to  Nsklent

‘Human rights’ only ever seemed to be about selective individuals in the UK rather than general concepts like freedom or democracy.

2
0
Annie
Annie
5 years ago

Please do. I’ll join anything that fights fir our deliverance.

10
0
Thomasina
Thomasina
5 years ago

Not that long ago ie 2 weeks, the percentage of people wanting a lockdown was actually falling and had come down from 85% to 65%, going the right way. This was debated by Julia Hartly Brewer on Talkradio as another survey showed that 80% of people were in favour of a lockdown. If you ask an individual a leading question such as ‘if up to 100,000 people are going to die of Cv19 – do you think lockdown is a good idea’ – it may indeed emit a yes response. Therefore numbers have been manipulated to be just that. Due to the out of date and apocalyptic figures shown to the public now the percentage supporting lockdown has actually risen again? This I find strange as we all know about the flawed PCR tests and the lack of excess mortality – have people really changed their minds and now believe all this over exaggerated nonsense?

16
0
Steve Martindale
Steve Martindale
5 years ago
Reply to  Thomasina

This virus seems to have a brilliant PR agent and has scripted itself as a scary horror movie. Many people buy a lottery ticket each week even thought the odds against winning are huge and so they are scared the virus might get them even though the odds against that happening are huge. But by having this random ability to severely affect a very small proportion of people it scares people witless. Julia HB has just re-iterated that only 315 people under 60 have died of Covid but to many people this is scary – it could be me.

The other factor is this deification of the NHS and this ludicrous idea that we must protect the NHS as if it is a fragile and frail gran-parent who could collapse at any moment. If the NHS needs protection then it is not for for purpose and needs radical reformation. But to many people it is a vital part of the Covid cult.

16
0
chaos
chaos
5 years ago
Reply to  Thomasina

Most people believe what they are told by newspapers and TV. The message that is repeated daily is the one that gets registered in the mind and believed, and that message is pro lockdown e.g. Global Health Security. Few people read Spiked, The Spectator, or watch Sky News Austalia.. even fewer read Lockdown Sceptics or watch Computing Forever, Paul Joseph Watson or Ivor Cummings or Anna Brees etc etc. Most of the population has never heard of The Great Reset despite it being mentioned in every single UK msm news source once or more than once. These days most people do not buy a paper or subscibe to one or pay much attention to the news on TV. The BBC is probably still the most widely disseminated news in the UK i.e. what people have on as they get ready for work or school or listen to in the car. Unfortunately the tories have a massive majory. 344 of the 650 seats are tory. Boris could elect to fuck every maiden in the land like in Braveheart and it could be voted through given the calibre of fuckwits in those seats. Labour can abstain or support the lockdown and still… Read more »

Last edited 5 years ago by chaos
16
0
Biker
Biker
5 years ago

If transmission is high in high schools than how come my son is at a school with 1500 other children and he’s been back since august and not one single child has had this so called virus? Me thinks they’re talking shite. Me thinks they are lying on purpose and we are in fact living in a country under occupation, Boris must be compromised with photos and these scientists are on the payroll of the fascist new world order that rules over us no problem whatsoever.

57
0
Llamasaurus Rex
Llamasaurus Rex
5 years ago
Reply to  Biker

I never thought fascism – the real kind, not the faux cry from SJWs – would come so quickly, and like this. But it has.

26
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  Biker

How many have been tested for it? They haven’t had COVID19 the disease, which is not the same thing as having the infection. Asymptomatic infections are still infections. Whether they can pass that on to others of course, is not known as they are under the radar!

3
-1
Kristian Short
Kristian Short
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

So how many senior teachers have contracted the disease??

0
0
Annie
Annie
5 years ago

Another curse for Boris and all his henchmen, from The jackdaw of Rheims :

He curs’d him at board, he curs’d him in bed,  
From the sole of his foot to the crown of his head!  
He curs’d him in sleeping, that every night  
He should dream of the devil, and wake in a fright; 
 He curs’d him in eating, he curs’d him in drinking,   
 He curs’d him in coughing, in sneezing, in winking;  
He curs’d him in sitting, in standing, in lying;  
He curs’d him in walking, in riding, in flying; 
 He curs’d him in living, he curs’d him in dying!
Never was heard such a terrible curse!

If course, dreaming of the devil wouldn’t scare these monsters, it would
just be a form of nocturnal narcissism. But the coughing curse would be really good.

3
0
PastImperfect
PastImperfect
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

From time to time the Jackdaw of Rheims has crossed my mind over the course of this manufactured disaster. The aim of the reset is to create conditions where fabulous wealth is flaunted while the vast majority are slaves, rather like the power of the church, but without the need for the confessional.

3
0
Biker
Biker
5 years ago

Seems like the fags that run Twitter take the wrong position on everything. Can’t wait to see their lying censoring ugly fucking faces when Trump wins a landslide so big it can reach the moon

19
0
Will Smith
Will Smith
5 years ago

Toby writes that the arrival of Nigel Farage’s Reform Party is “a very positive development”. I’m afraid it’s far from it. It will just confirm in the minds of the complacent majority of the middle classes – the opinion formers,l and influencers whose minds we must change if we are to win out – that lockdown sceptism is merely a front for the unreconstructed radical Right.

As a left leaning, Guardian reading, liberal myself I can attest to the fact that my credulous friends and family see the sceptism of Trump, Farage and their ilk as a very good reason to doubt our cause and instead support the ‘science’ of technocrats such as Whitty, Vallance and the members of Sage.

We should have wished that Farage had taken an opposing view and been a lockdown zealot if we really wanted to move the dial towards us.

19
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John Smith
John Smith
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Smith

Farage is such an obvious intelligence asset and I find Mr. Youngs apparent ignorance of such facts unconvincing.

Not to be trusted.

7
-9
Biker
Biker
5 years ago
Reply to  John Smith

Oh dear.

9
-1
Jonathan Palmer
Jonathan Palmer
5 years ago
Reply to  John Smith

I agree.He leads a groundswell of opposition into a dead end and stops a genuine one from forming.
But things are so desperate now anyone with a national profile who opposes lockdown should help.

9
-3
Sally
Sally
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Smith

This issue is too important to be so damn tribal and narrow-minded about. Either he’s right about this or he isn’t. Clearly he is right. Do you only support causes that the “right” people get behind or do you evaluate things on their merits?

44
0
Steve Martindale
Steve Martindale
5 years ago
Reply to  Sally

it is an indictment of out political system that so often MPs have broken away on a point of principle and than just been pushed into the political wilderness by the mainstream political system. I am afraid our political system is such a self perpetuating system that it takes people like Trump and Farage to challenge it. If I was in the USA at the moment i think I would ‘put a peg on my nose’ and vote for Trump.

Last edited 5 years ago by Steve-Devon
13
0
ConstantBees
ConstantBees
5 years ago
Reply to  Steve Martindale

I am American but live in the UK. I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Trump, but I am abstaining from voting this time. No way I could vote for Biden with the national mask mandate thing.

1
0
Chris Hume
Chris Hume
5 years ago
Reply to  Sally

Well said Sally.

7
-1
PoshPanic
PoshPanic
5 years ago
Reply to  Sally

Exactly. Independent thought is allowed….for now

3
0
Mark
Mark
5 years ago
Reply to  Sally

I don’t think Smith was either describing his own position or advocating for what he describes, but rather just observing the depressing reality.

2
-1
Jamie
Jamie
5 years ago
Reply to  Sally

I agree completely, I’m on the left and have started listening to JHB and Peter Hitchens religiously on this subject, though I still disagree with them on many other things. Still though, one of the major opinion drivers for people is who they identify with (tribal, stupid, I know) and I would argue that the existing culture war has entrenched blindness to the facts around this virus

I must say that Farage wading in will entrench peoples opinions on the remain voting, more left-wing side of things and further politicises the whole affair (which should have never been politicised in the first place)

Having said that they’ve influenced policy on other things through their electoral threat, so I think in some ways it’s a negative thing, in some ways it may a positive.

0
0
Jamie
Jamie
5 years ago
Reply to  Jamie

Just to add to this, Farage usually goes to fill the void that the Labour Party have left – in this case the same thing has happened – he’s sticking up for working people and those that are already struggling economically. As someone who has usually been on the left of politics, I actually blame the Labour Party for not representing the people it was supposed to be founded for and I will never forgive them for that

5
0
ConstantBees
ConstantBees
5 years ago
Reply to  Jamie

Exactly. I’m a lifelong Democrat/Labour voter but I would vote for the Reform Party if they focus on getting us out of this mess. I will never vote for Labour or the Democrats again, which is something I never expected to say. And I’m in my 60s so this isn’t some small change for me.

0
0
Mark
Mark
5 years ago
Reply to  Jamie

I think you are exactly correct there (though I come from the opposite perspective, politically). It is the abandonment of the British working classes (who were always mostly socially conservative and patriotic, and are despised as such by modern left elites) for globalist and politically correct identity lobby issues that has left a gaping hole where that representation was.

Meanwhile the”Conservative” Party has moved to the left, taking its hinterland for granted. thereby leaving traditionalist conservatives unrepresented as well. As Peter Hitchens recently put it, both parties basically represent Polly Toynbee types, and others are simply not represented.

That combination of trends has created space for new parties in a system that really does not encourage them. Sooner or later one will break through and replace either of the big two, as Labour replaced the Liberals in the early C20th.

0
0
Chris Hume
Chris Hume
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Smith

He was a zealot at the outset. Unlike Julia Hartley-Brewer and Mike Graham I find his ‘conversion’ less than convincing. Like you I wish he’d have stayed away, although he has a number of long term fans who will at least start questioning the narrative due to his intervention. I ultimately think we will need people from all perspectives to get on board to beat SAGE, the MSM and the Tory/Labour/SNP coalition on this.

Last edited 5 years ago by Chris Hume
8
0
Recusant
Recusant
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Smith

Maybe, but Farage wins in the end, doesn’t he? For all their complaining, what do the Guardian influence? It’s nearly broke because nobody cares about it.

21
0
Biker
Biker
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Smith

As a left leaning Guardian reading liberal can i suggest you get your hand out my pocket and your head out your arse

12
-1
Marialta
Marialta
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Smith

Correct and it will be a repeat of their pathological hate of the orange man and his disregard for masks.

3
-2
PoshPanic
PoshPanic
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Smith

I don’t know why you’re getting down voted, as it does raise a good point. Farage is a very Marmite figure. However, it also highlights one of the reasons we’re in this mess and that’s groupthink like this. It’s inconceivable to a lot of people, that someone they oppose, might actually sometimes have a good point.
It’s been clear to me from early on, that the anti lockdown movement, is a broad church.

13
-1
Steve
Steve
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Smith

My biggest issue with Nigel is he’s like the grand old Duke Of York – marches his supporters up to the top of the hill then marches them down again. It never occurs to him to fortify the hill. We’d have been in a lot better position if UKIP or the Brexit Party had stayed the course and built up from their support into a decent opposition. There’s always been a feeling that he’s ‘controlled oppositon’ – a safety valve that lets off some steam but keeps the machinery of the established parties going. It does seem more than coincidental that he’s starting this just as other challenger parties start to get going. (Though the lockdown does give a legitimate reason). So I do have misgivings with Nigel jumping in – especially as he was pro-lockdown and clapping for the NHS in the early days of this fiasco. BUT, that said he’s probably the only figure that could scare the Tories into doing the right thing, so this is a good move – but treat with some caution – we don’t want a ‘pop-up party’ that will be collapsed when Nigel gets fed up of it, or which rolls over… Read more »

9
0
Helen
Helen
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Smith

The German Corona Auschuss (peoples corona inquiry) have dismissed the political system as corrupt..they take evidence only from politician whistleblowers. Up to now just one green who has provided evidence that at the very first corona emergency meeting of the Bundestag the usual suspect pandemic mongerers were present.. Drosten & Wieler.

3
0
Caroline Watson
Caroline Watson
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Smith

Farage takes voters from the Tories. They, therefore, change course to neutralise him. That is a benefit. It would be even better if there was a similar group on the Left; industrial unions and genuine working class MPs such as Ian Lavery, arguing that lockdown protects the middle class at the expense of the working class. Instead they are virtually ignoring the huge elephant in the room and are heading happily down the rabbit hole of supporting the appalling Corbyn in arcane, internecine Labour Party battles.

6
0
Mark
Mark
5 years ago
Reply to  Caroline Watson

Exactly so.

1
0
Commander Jameson
Commander Jameson
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Smith

I agree. I’m losing count of the number of single-issue political parties this guy has set up.

This isn’t Brexit, this is something vastly, vastly more important, globally important, than that. Nigel is too compromised in the eyes of too many, as well intentioned as he may be, to be any kind of figurehead for a liberal/tarian revolution and should stand aside.

Last edited 5 years ago by Commander Jameson
2
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JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  Commander Jameson

I think there are pros and cons.

Farage will attract media publicity to the fact that there are different opinions/approaches, rather than the current msm one-sided position.

On the other hand, viewed with distaste by Will’s (brainwashed) ‘opinion formers / influencers’.

2
0
BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Smith

I actually don’t care. Any positivity in any shape is good.

Farage has his political ambition and will do whatever he can to push that, but if his message is correct, which it seems from his vid yesterday is broadly on the money, trying to counter it with “He’s a right wing fascist” is the mark of an idiot.

Such people cannot be saved.

4
0
Monro
Monro
5 years ago

Edited. Too many links.

Last edited 5 years ago by Monro
0
0
Monro
Monro
5 years ago

We have over 10 million new citizens in this country since 2000, many of whom lack vaccination records, probably have not been BCG vaccinated. Since BCG vaccination may have strong antiviral properties, that may be why covid 19 ‘infection’ numbers are high within immigrant communities. There may be an answer to this problem, in the form of voluntary BCG vaccination for those who have not already been so vaccinated. With regard to the elderly, who have been BCG vaccinated, protection may last for up to 60 years: ‘In this trial, BCG vaccine efficacy persisted for 50 to 60 years, suggesting that a single dose of an effective BCG vaccine can have a long duration of protection.’ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15126436/ That may explain the age profile of covid 19 mortality. Booster vaccination after infection may be the answer: ‘A less-explored but crucial question is the timing of the boost after BCG priming. Our studies have shed important light on this key question and perhaps partially help to explain the many unsuccessful attempts directed toward a prime-boost strategy for TB vaccine. Further work is needed to determine the detailed reasons/mechanisms for the inability of a pre-exposure boost with LP-ESAT-6 subunit vaccine to enhance protection… Read more »

Last edited 5 years ago by Monro
10
-1
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Monro

Have you read the GPs article?!

0
0
Laurence
Laurence
5 years ago

According to the ONS 336,500 people were infected with COVID in the week to 8 October. Allowing for a 3 week lag, 1,610 people died who had a positive test within 28 days in the week to 29 October, an IFR of .47% (probably a huge overestimate). Even using that, the ONS says 53,700 people have died with Covid on their death certificate to 16 October, that means 11.4 million have been infected, and now a further 230,000 people are going to die (from the graph), another 49 million to be infected, so 90% of the population are going to have been infected in total. Pretty soon over 100% by the time we get to the inevitable ‘third wave’. The IFR’s probably closer to .2% so over twice the population will get infected – bring in some more people from France ! oh, they’ve got the same issue ! No T-cell immunity, nobody spared, everyone can have it at least once, some two or three times. Does anyone do a sense check on these figures ? Does anyone believe this nonsense ? Is this why our civil liberties are being hammered, why people are condemned to die of curable cancers… Read more »

12
0
Steve Martindale
Steve Martindale
5 years ago
Reply to  Laurence

To my mind this is where Carl Heneghan and the CEBM have been so important and have really annoyed some of ‘The Science’. The CEBM have, as their name suggests, looked at things based on the evidence rather than predictions. The evidence is real and irrefutable the predictions invariably rely to some extent on supposition and with something as complex as a virus and its effect on the population invariably some of the suppositions are wrong and a small error at a crucial point in the modelling throws the model completely off course.

So to my mind the problem is that we have relied on models and predictions alone when these should always be balanced against the current evidence and previous history.

9
0
PastImperfect
PastImperfect
5 years ago
Reply to  Steve Martindale

Link to a survey from the Telegraph with some open-ended questions where sane strategies should be promoted.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/29/take-survey-tell-us-think-governments-coronavirus-response/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_AwJn4MXlXLmQ&fbclid=IwAR0_AfWhJ1pgLJqRwwMU0AKtKaYzUOu37m3vjNyZV8JBbS8Mi8vRjUifmZU

0
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  PastImperfect

Britain is prepared for a second wave of Covid-19
Strongly disagree ………. Strongly agree

This is a have you stopped beating your wife yes or no? question.

There might be room for views but how do you get past a fence of these first?
They will be “marked” by computer, so your open ended comments will probably be ignored and the poll is then effectively rigged.

0
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  Laurence

An IFR of between 0.15 and 0.5 is the right ballpark (lower value is influenza btw). About 1-3% of infections seek hospital and about 1/5-1/6 of admissions will die. So 30K infections gives 1K admissions a week later and 200 deaths a week after that.

As for T cell immunity – there is currently no evidence that in vitro reactivity is protective of infection or disease. I am willing to believe T cell reactivity protects against severity of disease (COVID19) since there is plenty of evidence of asymptomatic infections – even from the ONS data. But sterile immunity? No evidence. You may be surprised to learn you have T cell “immunity” to some of the ingredients of toothpaste. It’s a “known unknown” but past coronoavirus infections and some degree of cross-immunity can reasonably be expected to protect from COVID19 the disease, but perhaps not SARS-CoV2 virus infection.

The data from ONS hospitals and deaths is consistent, and some of us do try and sense check the figures. Early anti-viral treatment reduces hospitalisations by 67% – that’s the fall one would hope from 0.5 to 0.15. Deaths are reduced slightly by dexamthasone. Vaccines might give more asymptomatic infections.

0
0
Laurence
Laurence
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

So if the IFR is 0.15% as you suggest the graph suggests we should have 230,000/ .0015 = 150,000,000 infections – over twice the population !

0
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  Laurence

IFR is the fatality rate not the infection rate. Seasonal flu kills about 1/737 people infected, COVID19 kills somewhere between that number and 1/180.

30,000 infections per day (from ONS cross sectional survey) means
1000 admissions a week later (3% of infections) means
200 deaths a week later (20% of admissions)

How do those numbers look based on today’s data? Pretty reasonable predictions, I think.

If the entire population were to be infected over the course of the epidemic, one would expect 66M/737 to 66M/180 or 90 – 360k deaths. The low end would be a worst-case influenza. A bad flu season has given 50k deaths. We’re about half-way to the lower figure – about 1/10 of the population have confirmed antibody seropositivity. Asymptomatic infection generates seropositive conversion. So that 1/10 is a lower bound.

Last edited 5 years ago by djaustin
0
0
Laurence
Laurence
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

yes, I know. 150,000,000 x .15% = 225,000

0
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  Laurence

What’s your point? If this were influenza, and everyone had had the infection, we would have had about 100K deaths. It may kill a higher proportion, but has thus far infected fewer people. The OMS data bounds those infected per week. I didn’t suggest it was 0.15 – that’s a lower bound based on influenza. I think it closer to 0.5% (1/200) actually, with approximately 10% having been infected and seroconverted (including asymptomatics) – so 33K deaths so far.

10% x 66,000,000/200 = 33,000

So another 90% potentially to be infected (although some of those may be protected by future treatments and/or a vaccine).

That analysis above and graph makes no sense. Firstly, the decline of a Gompertz model is not linear after the peak (defined at Nmax/2), it will be log-linear exponential decline. The asymptotic behaviour towards the eventual maximum number of souls will eventually tend to linear, as all exponential functions do, but not immediately after the peak.

0
0
Laurence
Laurence
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

The point is that 0.5% is a very high IFR. you say there was no inherent immunity so everyone’s going to get it. Why didn’t they then when the pandemic was here. And if your excuse is lockdown worked then what about Sweden.
They had no lockdown and only 237 people under 60 died.
My point is get real and look at the numbers, and do a common sense check.

0
0
Laurence
Laurence
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

Can you please clarify what you are saying – you say in a previous post that “ Early anti-viral treatment reduces hospitalisations by 67% – that’s the fall one would hope from 0.5 to 0.15.” Firstly you say that the deaths are reduced by 2/3, then in the next sentence that this is just a hope, and now in this email that you didn’t suggest 0.15% at all, that it was a lower bound based on influenza. Can we please have a bit of consistency as you have managed to say three different and contradictory things – which do you stand by? If it’s the first, then COVID kills about the same as flu per infected person, if the second 1/3 as many, and if the third anywhere between these two or even more. You then say as if contradicting me that the IFR is a fatality rate, but that is exactly how i have used it. You also say that there are a further 90% to be infected – well there may be 90% who haven’t been infected but we have to ask why not if there was no inherent immunity (T-cell or otherwise), not here and not in Sweden. Of… Read more »

0
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  Laurence

Treatments have shown reductions of 2/3 in hospital admissions. The trials are too small to show what that means for mortality and IFR, but the numbers going to hospital is greatly reduced – hence the hope. A bit like seeing antibodies [produced in a small vaccine trial and hoping the population will be predicted. They may… and they may not. Based on the ONS survey data, which I consider the most robust, the IFR looks nearer to 0.5 than 0.15. That means to make COVID19 more “like influenza”, some reduction in IFR will be needed. Antivirals are pretty poor for influenza, and there are no approved antibodies (some in development). But two antibodies (Lilly and Regeneron) have shown impressive responses in early treatment of COVID in outpatient settings. they both showed no response in hospitalized patients though as antivirals are too late. Vaccines may also provide a simliar improvement in outcome (lower IFR) by priming people to fight off infection. That’s why the elderly were protected from 2009 pandemic flu, but not the young. The presence of cross reactive T cells is demonstrated. Their relevance to protection from infection is not. There is a hypothesis, but it seems too many… Read more »

Last edited 5 years ago by djaustin
0
0
Commander Jameson
Commander Jameson
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

We don’t care about infections that cause no disease. In fact that is a good thing for the community.

Skeptics, remember that DJ Austin, OBE (for services to the Corona) is the linkman between GSK and Imperial. One of those mathematicians trying to do medicine who has gotten us into this mess.

1
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  Commander Jameson

Actually we do, because the 1-3% hospital admissions includes asymptomatic infections as well. Asymptomatic does not mean can’t pass the infection on. In fact most viral diseases are most transmissible prior to symptoms. I’ve been djaustin on the internet for thirty years. I see no need to hide behind anonymity, “Commander”.

1
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BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

Does asymptomatic mean they can pass the virus on?

How do know if someone is asymptomatic with SARS-CoV-2? RT-PCR?

What CT are you using if so? Which test kit?

What are the false positive rates for said test kit?

Have you accounted for poor swab and lab processes risking contamination?

etc.

1
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  BeBopRockSteady

Ever had chickenpox? You will have caught it from someone who may have had very few symptoms. Of course they will show more signs later, but peak infectiousness is prior to symptoms.

All those points are reasonable, but ultimately this is a respiratory virus. It transmits in the same way as others. It’s a bit more spreadable than influenza, but much less than measles and less than chickenpox. It would be surprising if the phenotype of transmission is so different. All those asymptomatic students in halls are catching it from somewhere – and only about 20% have symptoms so are avoided.

I’m satisified that the ONS data is robust, the analysis and testing methods factor in uncertainty and have shown consistent trends. I doubt the large increase since september has been down to better swabbing, because hospital admissions have followed that rise, and total patients on ventilation have followed admissions.

0
0
BeBopRockSteady
BeBopRockSteady
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

Ok, this wont cover all cases of asymptomatics but if PCR is picking up dead virus, to what extent are people infectious? If we are using non sensical CTs, where does that leave us?

It seems to be that this is not being held up to the light and, as such, we are operating in a data poor environment. I try and rationalise it and, for me, it simply doesn’t put me anywhere close to a position where I could begin a rational analysis.

“They must be catching is from somewhere” is not good enough.

You may be seeing trends holding up between hospitalisations and deaths to CV19, however, given what I’ve said, we need to put that in context. Is this any different to a normal year for hospitalisations? Because the PCR will simply mark people as Covid anyway. Same with deaths and excess deaths are either within normal range or slightly above. You could be analysing normal trends and calling it Covid.

I continually come back to the PCR. If we acknowledge its shortcomings where do go from there to analyse effectively?

1
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  BeBopRockSteady

Is this any different to a normal year for hospitalisations?

Yes it is, the symptoms people are admitted with are quite distinct from normal respiratory diseases like influenza and bacterial pneumonia. COVID19 (the disease) was described well-before the virus was isolated based on symptomatology. People go to hospital with clinical symptoms, and I don’t think that behaviour will change during the course of the epidemic unless virulence changes appreciably. I completely accept PCR tests have their limits, but all other things being constant, even against a background of those limitations, trends will be robust. Community Pillar 2 testing does not fall into that category. ONS does.

0
0
DeepBlueYonder
DeepBlueYonder
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

How on earth can we know anything about hospitalizations over the last six months?

Deplorably, the NHS has “paused the collection and publication of some of our official statistics.” This includes “data on ‘Critical Care Bed Capacity and Urgent Operations Cancelled.’ ” They state:

“Due to the coronavirus illness (COVID-19) and the need to release capacity across the NHS to support the response, we paused the collection and publication of some of our official statistics.

Initially this applied to the statistics listed in Annex A, for data due to be submitted between 1 April and 30 June. This was subsequently extended to apply to data due to be submitted between 1 July and 30 September.”

Note that they haven’t simply stopped publishing it – they have stopped “collecting” it.

What has happened to honour, the difference between doing what is right and wrong, and telling the truth?

Last edited 5 years ago by DeepBlueYonder
2
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  DeepBlueYonder

When they pause counting admissions – then even I will be worried and reaching for the conspiracy handbook! Input rate is what matters – hospital stay is relatively easy to guess (about 5-7 days). But admissions is the pointy end link to the community.

0
0
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  DeepBlueYonder

How can not collecting data increase hospital capacity?
You certainly need a particular sort of mind to make this stuff up!

0
0
Sophie123
Sophie123
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

The same applies to flu though. 75% of flu is asymptomatic. Are you taking that into account as well? I can never tell with the flu IFR how it’s calculated. It seems to be from reported cases rather than via PCR, which is how the 0.1% arises (as far as I can tell…it’s very hard to work out…I’ve done a lot of googling and digging round the CDC website but it just reports IFR 0.1 without saying how it got there).

It seems to me they are not massively dissimilar in the proportion of people infected, proportion of asymptomatic and in mortality rate. The big difference is flu kills children and young people while COVID is primarily dangerous to those at the end of life.

0
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  Sophie123

Yes, the IFR counts asymptomatic infections. Actually flu tends not to kill children in the UK, it does present a large morbidity burden in terms of hospital admissions though (higher rate than the elderly, surprisingly).

1
-1
Commander Jameson
Commander Jameson
5 years ago
Reply to  djaustin

So there are some people who admitted for something and have a concomitant corona infection. What an earth-shattering observation. This could only come as news to a mathematician with limited knowledge of medicine, who has to sit down and work it all out from first principles.

You know very well why people in our industry who don’t support the mainstream narrative have to remain anonymous. For all you know I am just down the corridor from you!

How disgraceful that it has come to this in a discipline that only works when controversies are aired and worked through in good faith.

2
0
djaustin
djaustin
5 years ago
Reply to  Commander Jameson

For all you know I am just down the corridor from you!

If you know where I worked, you’ll know that isn’t physically possible 🙂

2
-2
Rowan
Rowan
5 years ago
Reply to  Laurence

Ivor Cummings calls them out and says that Whitty and Vallance should be in jail, which of course, means that fat Bozo should be in the Tower, along with Hancock.

https://sms.cam.ac.uk/media/3316985

1
0
Colin
Colin
5 years ago

On a purely chartist analysis, deaths in Spain appear to have leveled out at the sub 200 mark over the last week and UK and France have made a breakout to the downside (lower high + lower low) in the last few days. This is before the UK LD has even started, but if the trend continues it will of course be because the government ‘acted in a decisive and timely manner’.

11
0
RyanM
RyanM
5 years ago

I’ll be campaigning for Noem as well!

7
0

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