The Prime Minister has signalled that he would not prevent pubs from demanding that drinkers prove they have had a Covid vaccine before entering. Such ideas have previously been dismissed by Government officials as “discriminatory”. The Times has the story.
Pub landlords will be able to bar entry to people who have not been vaccinated, Boris Johnson has suggested.
The Prime Minister said that it “may be up to the landlord” to decide whether to require proof of vaccination or a negative test from customers, in a significant change of heart after ruling out the idea last month. …
A month ago Johnson said that while the Government would look at vaccine passports for international travel, “what I don’t think we will have in this country is – as it were – vaccination passports to allow you to go to, say, the pub or something like that”.
Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, is now leading a review into the idea. He is due to report by June.
The idea is being opposed by many Tory backbenchers and pressed on whether it went against his liberal instincts, Johnson said that he had been “thinking very, very deeply” about the issue.
“The public have been thinking very deeply about it and my impression is that there is a huge wisdom in the public’s feeling about this and people, human beings, instinctively recognise when something is dangerous, nasty to them, and they can see that Covid is collectively a threat, and they want us as their Government, and me as the Prime Minister, to take all the actions I can to protect them.”
He said that people having to prove they were not infectious was “the kind of thing that may be up to the individual publicans, it may be up to the landlord”.
It is likely that vaccination will become mandatory for care home staff, along with other healthcare workers. This, alongside the prospect of Covid “certificates“, and the latest suggestion regarding pubs, begs the question: to what extent can the Covid vaccine really be called voluntary? Steve Baker, the Deputy Chairman of the Covid Recovery Group, has said that such requirements would create a “two-tier Britain”.
The Prime Minister began to tread a dangerous path when he opened the door to domestic Covid certificates. First they said we’ll need them to watch the football, and today that it may be papers for the pub.
Whether the state legislates for it, recommends it or simply allows it, the result will be the same – a two-tier Britain that prevents pregnant women from taking part in society, given that the Government is telling them not to take the vaccine, or one where we turn back the clock and tolerate businesses turning away customers from communities which have shown an unfortunate hesitancy to take up the offer of a vaccine. We must not fall into this ghastly trap.
The Times report is worth reading in full.
Stop Press: Toby says a bloke on his street in Acton has already offered to sell him a vaccine passport. It seems a racing certainty that the attitude of the British public – which Boris seems to set so much store by – will be to enthusiastically endorse ‘Passports for Pubs’, then cheat en masse. The man on the Clapham omnibus is a strange hybrid of Captain Mainwaring and Private Walker.
Stop Press 2: Readers can still submit responses to the ‘Covid-Status Certification Review’ until March 29th. Details here.
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Of course a pub landlord can insist they will only serve “vaccinated”.
I guess some customers would like that.
One has to wait and see how long they will stay in business.
6 months before the smoking ban (15 years ago ?) Weatherspoons completed a full refit of its largest nearby outlet.
They tried to impose the smoking ban unilaterally 6 months early but everyone who went . . .
left and they were forced to delay.
They won’t.
And how many of the pub staff will have been vaccinated?
This is nothing more than a ploy to introduce digital IDs for everyone, using the vaccine as an excuse and means.
Once again, Mr Toad displays, nakedly in public, what a devious, lying bastard he is – willing to deny any statement he has previously made, any stance he has previously taken, any paternity he has been responsible for.
Eats nails; shits screws – and the Great British Public has not yet cottoned on.
An ignorant man without principle or cerebral bedrock. And ignorance and lack of principle can very quickly evolve into evil.
‘Madness in great ones must not unwatched go’
Apart from his manifest deficiencies in about every human quality apart from philoprogenitivity, of which we were warned, with extraordinary prescience and accuracy, by Sir Max Hastings here https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain
my main impression of this monster is that he has taken leave of his senses, and is, in some way, “off his rocker”. The sooner he is removed, the better.
Agree fully.
That Max Hastings article was a triumph of prophecy. I only read it after the election. As a naive voter I didn’t know just how bad Johnson was, but I always wondered at he back of my mind why so many people who’d had first-hand experience of him were resolutely against him having any form if responsibility. Now I know.
Yes, the sooner he is removed the better for everyone, including him.
Then why did so many Tory MPs vote for him to take over from Teresa May??
Seats, elections, and cynicism.
He was not Teresa May.
Quote: “Dickie, you’re so crooked, if you swallowed a nail, you’d shit a corkscrew.” Gen Sir Gerald Templar to Lord ‘Dickie’ Mountbatten.
The Guardian is reporting that Bozo has this nailed. Pubs that demand passports needn’t comply with social distancing.
My guess is that pubs that demand passports wouldn’t need to comply with social distancing anyway because they won’t have enough customers for it to be a problem.
I remember the start of lockdown lite when I went into my unlovely local, just before Track’n’Trace but the tables had been taped off so only two customers sitting diagonally opposite.
They figured out that there was nothing stopping several tables being pushed together so I took my place on one corner and joined in the only topic of conversation.
Our local let several households meet but using separated tables. It was a bit of a pain, but at least it was nearly normal.
Win/win for the establishment who want to kill off British pubs.
People who come round my place for a drink and a smoke need not observe social distancing ‘though a rudimentary knowledge of 3 Card Brag might be advantageous.
I don’t know how many times I have to say this, but THESE ‘VACCINES’ DO NOT PREVENT TRANSMISSION. Therefore there is no argument for keeping unvaccinated people away from vaccinated. No argument whatsoever for mandatory vaccination. You are not doing anyone but yourself any favours by taking the vaccine and there is no difference to you whether someone else takes it or not. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying to you or falls asleep every night with the BBC on.
Absolutely right. Even the NHS pamphlets promoting them say so in print. In effect, those who want to intrude into our medical records are fraudsters. There is no value at all to the general public, and those who try it on will go bust, if they haven’t already. It’s a shame they call them ‘vaccines’, though; another new term would be more like it.
Placebo.
Pacifier (US).
Until recently I pointed this out to people several times a day, even to zealots to whom I had not revealed my scepticism.
They all um & ah then carry on regardless. My contempt for the public now knows no bounds.
Yes. The unconcerned shrug is a depressingly common theme.
The same is true of the flu vaccine, they reduce the seriousness of the illness should the vaccinated person become infected. I have had the AstraZeneca injection, if I were to be exposed to SARS-CoV-2 then I could become infected and infectious without becoming very unwell and hence not requiring a hospital bed or more specifically an ITU bed. This is the real reason for the pushing of the vaccine to “protect the NHS” and “flatten the curve”, it’s absolutely nothing to do with immunity either personal or, more importantly, community.
Correct. And there hasn’t been any anti-coronavirus vaccination against the other ones that are endemic with us either, that is, some of the common cold outbreaks. No financial benefit, perhaps, or maybe it’s not feasible. Ask the drug trade, but be careful what they say. Some might say that using the term ‘vaccine’ is inappropriate for some products, somewhat diluting the purpose of the more serious ones that are useful.
With a reputed 40% of bat flu being caught in hospitals it is us that needs saving from the NHS.
Have they decided yet whether or not the public can catch the thing more than once?
I keep saying it too, but it keeps falling on deaf ears even though Government Guidelines state that fact too. See page 11 of the guide for adults. There is no logic to this nonsense..
This should do the job of further reducing the pubs that have managed to stay in business. The instant a pub asks me for this, they can keep their drink and I’ll keep my money.
In any case, the conditions in pubs with masks, sitting, being spied on etc. mean that it’ll be like visiting day at HMP Wormwood Scrubs, so thanks, but no thanks.
Who is going to vote for this individual?
The masked ‘feartie’ zealots are public sector or public sector pensioners almost to 100% who never vote for old Etonians.
That is why the Scottish Nationalists have splashed out everyone else’s money on a 4% NHS Scotland pay rise….just before an election……140,000 potential votes….roughly 7% of voters
40% of the electorate voted for Mr Corbyn in 2017……32% in 2019
43.6% voted for Mr Johnson in 2019…….could be 36% in 2024……a loss of 60 seats and a plunge back into a very long electoral winter for the Conservative party.
The local elections, often a vehicle for protest votes, in May will give a clear indication of the direction of travel.
Does it matter? The country will be ruined beyond repair long before we get to 2024. That’s assuming a reasonable number of people stay sane. I’m seeing more and more indication that people see the ruination as the fault of the pandemic and not the reaction to it.
It hasn’t mattered more since 1945: an unfortunate precedent with much responsibility for where we find ourselves, as a nation, today.
Exactly, the welfare state has a great deal to answer for.
There is absolutely nobody anywhere near Parliament to whom I would entrust power were the Aliens to assist me in bloodless coup tomorrow.
The only way this nightmare will end is for the ‘22 to remove Johnson. Then new PM must remove Hancock, Gove, Whitty & Vallance and reshuffle SAGE members.
Last summer, I had to write my name, phone number, and my time of arrival on a piece of paper EVERY TIME I went into a Morrisons cafe and into a coffee shop. This is because I do not carry a mobile phone. As for pubs, one had to book a seat – attempts to walk in, buy a pint, and read a newspaper or a book usually failed upon being told ‘We’re full up.’ Near me, another single man was sitting there reading a newspaper and taking up a table for four. We looked at each other, as if to say, ‘This is madness, isn’t it?’ I fear this will be repeated.
So where would this notion end? “Logically” we would eventually need a passport to go shopping, to visit a museum, a cinema, a hospital, etc., etc. May as well give me a yellow star to stitch on to my coat, or how about a tattoo on my forearm, or perhaps on my forehead? This lunacy/ panic/ totalitarianism has to be stopped in its tracks before we are truly up sh**t creek permanently.
I have responded to the Gove sham consultation making exactly the point about yellow stars & how far from our moral & ethical compass such a move would be. I didn’t hold back & felt so much better after a rant! Have very little faith that it will make any difference in practice…
Do not jest about such things. The Democrats over in the U.S. are winding themselves up over mostly imaginary racism endemic in white people. Senators Duckworth and Hirono have openly said they won vote for any white candidates being put forward for Biden administration positions, which is against US law which prevents discrimination on race, gender, etc grounds, and is probably unconstitutional. Writing in The Root: “Root senior editor Damon Young argued that “Whiteness” is a “public health crisis.” “It shortens life expectancies, it pollutes air, it constricts equilibrium, it devastates forests, it melts ice caps, it sparks (and funds) wars, it flattens dialects, it infests consciousnesses, and it kills people—[W]hite people and people who are not [W]hite, my mom included,” “White supremacy is a virus that, like other viruses, will not die until there are no bodies left for it to infect. Which means the only way to stop it is to locate it, isolate it, extract it, and kill it. I guess a vaccine could work, too. But we’ve had 400 years to develop one, so I won’t hold my breath.” They’re working themselves up towards genocide. They’re slandering and accusing white people of “white supremacy”, “white privilege”,… Read more »
I’m so pleased not to have much time left of this earth.
I fear we are leaving it a bit late, This has been planned for a long time and is more than half way the already.
I still think this is a ruse to increase uptake of the vaccine. In June, the Government will announce there will be no vaccine certificates for domestic use by which time most people will have had their first jab.
The use of certificates in pubs, (and elsewhere) would be illegal, divisive, uneccessary and impractical. You cannot coerce people into having a vaccine that is voluntary.
For those who make the comparison to a driving licence; a driving licence is not essential to lead a heallthy life, socialising is essential to lead a healthly life.
I suspect that is the endgame, and sadly the threats are working. Disappointing how many people have reported that they have taken the vax so they can ‘get their life back’. Yup, that’s a good reason for a medical intervention.
That’s what the government was counting on, and the reason behind the unnecessary lockdown.
“most people” might be a bit optimistic, especially if you look up the ONS so-called “hesitancy survey” ( https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandwellbeing/bulletins/coronavirusandvaccinehesitancygreatbritain/13januaryto7february2021 ) conducted in the winter. Essentially, as you go down the age list, more people do not want it. As it happens, the pub trade tends to do well with people of that age group. So, yes, you are right to suspect it being a ruse to persuade more to comply with a wild policy.
I’m going to send that to my brain dead MP.
Pubs Can Demand Proof of Covid Vaccination, Says Boris Johnson
If was in my 20’s, I would gather together a large group of friends and go to the pub. When asked for Covid ID, we would all walk away. Youngsters all over the country should do this until the pubs realise how much more business they are losing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56522652 latest from Boris
I thought that Licensees already had the right to refuse to serve anyone.
They do, but not if it’s discriminatory, and not a good idea if it drives them out of business.
Vaxpartheid? Vaxzism?, nudge nudge a step at a time, this is how Hitler made things happen. Step by step. Is Bozo actually moving more quickly than Hitler did after his 1933 election victory? 1 year on! Just think back 13 months. This would have been utterly unthinkable.
“In 1933 Hitlers New Order was distinguished by an authoritarian political system based on a leadership structure in which authority flowed downward from a supreme national leader. In the new Germany, all citizens would unselfishly serve the state or Volk; democracy would be abolished, and individual rights sacrificed”…Sound a bit familiar?
“The public have been thinking very deeply about it and my impression is that there is a huge wisdom in the public’s feeling about this and people, human beings, instinctively recognise when something is dangerous, nasty to them, and they can see that Covid is collectively a threat, and they want us as their Government, and me as the Prime Minister, to take all the actions I can to protect them.”
In other words, I’m going g to use the excuse of the pubic being too docile and afraid to be able to manage their own risk so the government will do it for them.
This is puke-inducing.
How exactly does an app or bit of paper saying you’ve had a vaccination mean that the government and Boris Johnson is “protecting them”?? It’s one of his more obvious statements of complete bllx. I really, truly, deeply despise this man.
He has that same way with words as Trump. Uses lots of them inappropriately to end up saying not very much.
My response to Cabinet Office: Open consultation COVID-Status Certification Review To: certification.cfe@cabinetoffice.gov.uk Cc: boris.johnson.mp@parliament.uk; john.glen.mp@parliament.uk Dear Sir or Madam, I have only just become aware of this review and call for evidence. Unfortunately, I have not had enough time to think through all the ramifications of the following paragraph, which is all I have been working from. However, I’ve tried to list all I can think of, prior to the deadline. “COVID-status certification refers to the use of testing or vaccination data to confirm in different settings that individuals have a lower risk of getting sick with or transmitting COVID-19 to others. Such certification would be available both to vaccinated people and to unvaccinated people who have been tested.” Question 1 I am an individual and am responding on the basis of my own knowledge gleaned from media and government, along with medical/scientific papers. Question 2 a) clinical / medical considerations I have no medical training. However, we know that testing is only valid at the point of testing. A person could catch the virus the day after testing, rendering the apparent reliability of a test result useless. Tests can and do provide false positive results. False positives can vary between 2%-30%… Read more »
…cont… g) equalities considerations Treating people differently based on their vaccination or test status, or a lack of data (i.e. it is unknown if they have been vaccinated or tested) is likely to lead to people being treated inconsistently. For example, currently, pregnant women are being advised not to have the vaccination. Would this mean constant testing of pregnant women to satisfy certification? What other, similar categories of people would be placed in the same situation e.g. others who have been advised not to take the vaccine and those who exercise their free right not to have it? The results could mean considerable numbers of people effectively being ostracised from important or significant parts of a participating society and unable to access goods and services. Whether this is by their ‘choice’ or medical needs is irrelevant. h) privacy considerations This is medical data and by its nature, is both personal and private. There need to be strict limits about when, how and by whom the data is used. The government must not be permitted access to an individual’s personal medical data. Other comments To a large extent, this consultation seems to be putting the cart before the horse. No information… Read more »