One of the few places that publishes daily information on the infection rate in vaccinated and unvaccinated people is the ZOE Covid Symptom study. Above is today’s estimate for the U.K., based on the data submitted by users through the ZOE app, and it shows something very striking. While the infection rate in vaccinated people has been trending well below that in the unvaccinated for months, in the last two weeks the rate in the vaccinated has surged while that in the unvaccinated has plateaued.
We don’t know what is causing this. The vaccinated group is older than the unvaccinated group, which will skew its infection rate lower as older age groups have a lower infection rate anyway (see below). The currently slowing growth in the younger age groups and the increasing growth in the older, more vaccinated age groups is likely to be a reflection of the same underlying infection patterns as those in the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups.
One factor may be that younger people are now being vaccinated (see below), though equally infection rates have been rising fast in those aged 50-60, who have been vaccinated for some time.
It’s worth noting that the ZOE graph includes everyone who’s had at least one vaccine dose, not just the fully vaccinated. Nonetheless, the sharp rise among the vaccinated at the same time as infections in the unvaccinated plateau is certainly a striking trend, and may be further evidence that the vaccines do not prevent infection as well as many studies have suggested.
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I did read an article some time back that suggests the vaccine produces more adverse reactions in the young, compared to the old. Does anyone have any data that might back that up?
Asking obviously as that chart suggests the under 40’s are causing the ‘surge’ in ‘cases’. If that’s the case, surely the correlation between more younger people getting ‘vaccinated’ and the increase in ‘cases’ of younger people should be explored?
Dear God Sir! Are you suggesting that vaccinations are causing problems? Please report to your nearest vaccination centre (back door, the one labelled “Organ Harvesting”).
if younger people are getting ‘vaccinated’ and younger people are spreading the virus, one might expect cases amongst the vaccinated to rise commensurately since vaccine does not work 100%.
0% is less than 100%.
This makes perfect sense. There must have been a sharp rise in the number of young people who were vaccinated in the last month. So, given that the majority of new cases are among the young, of course the number of vaccinated cases has risen. But why vaccine in quotes?
Hello again the other night we messaged each other over an interview where Byram Bridle claimed the spike protein was causing all the harms and deaths. The link you sent disputed this which is what science is all about but it didn’t answer the fact covid vaccines are harming people. As I said in my reply Byram Bridle was putting forward a theory based on the evidence that’s already out there. Anyway you failed to answer my comment and was wondering do you think covid vaccines are safe considering they’ve killed 30 times more people than any other vaccine in history? Lastly in today’s comment you correctly point out that as more become vaccinated it follows the percentage of the infected will be vaccinated. The mistake your making is you fail to see the connection that the covid vaccines are being sold as a way to prevent infections to justify making vaccination compulsory in healthcare etc. I work for the nhs and everyone is talking about making covid vaccination compulsory before long term studies show how effective or safe they are. I find this totally insane when we already know the covid vaccines are unsafe and now not as effective… Read more »
Hi – I am sorry I didn’t answer your comment. I don’t like to leave people with an unanswered question or challenge but as one of the few (maybe the only?) pro-vaxx people on this forum I get involved in a lot of conversations and sometimes miss responses. I don’t think there is a way of getting notified when someone replies to a comment you made, is there? Your comment rests on the premise that the vaccines are unsafe and I am afraid I disagree. Just because a lot of people have died after being vaccinated it doesn’t mean the vaccine caused their death. What we are getting is a lot of reports of deaths which might be associated with vaccines. But this is not surprising given the scale and speed of the roll-out and the blaze of publicity round it. As far as I know, MHRA and VAERS do not publish who is reporting these deaths, but the European equivalent – Eudravigilance – does, and 70% are not from medical professionals (I am afraid it is hard to get that report and it is not possible just to give a link). Remember that the roll out of all the… Read more »
First don’t assume we are all antivax because some of us object to being given something that as NOT gone through long term studies. I have had many vaccines over the years with no problems but this covid vaccine scares the hell out of me. From your reply you seem to dismiss the evidence that the vaccines are harming people. I suggest you look up Tess Lawrie.Like many doctors she has wrote to MHRA asking to not only stop vaccinating but to help those who have been harmed and to treat covid patients at home with drugs like Ivermectin. Today I looked up the definition of what a vaccine is and there’s nothing that says prevent severe symptoms. Maybe I am wrong and WHO and governments around the world want to redefine what a vaccine is. But at the moment the covid vaccines are therapeutics say like aspirin given to prevent heart attacks. I see you refuse to answer my last question about making vaccination compulsory in healthcare. Such a policy would harm greatly the delivery of health care as less nurses means more patients will die. I saw the reply to the petition asking not to make vaccination compulsory… Read more »
I am familiar with Dr Lawrie in the context of Ivermectin but not anti-vax. I did a little research and it seems it comes down to a letter she wrote to the MHRA. I couldn’t track down the letter itself so I don’t know exactly what she wrote, but from comments it seems to be on the lines of “there are lots of adverse events being reported by the yellow card system”. Whatever her qualifications, I am not convinced by this argument for the reasons I gave in the previous comment. You may be interested in this response. I don’t think it is very productive to debate the definition of vaccine. The current products provide some level of protection against a) getting covid in the first place b) being seriously ill if you do get it. They do this by preparing your immune system to recognise the virus. You can all them what you like. Vaccine seems like a convenient term – but if you prefer we can call them something like paravaccines on the grounds that they work in a different way from most vaccines. They are different from prophylactic drugs because, like all vaccines, they work by giving… Read more »
The whole idea behind the yellow card system and others is to detect when a drug or vaccine is causing harm. It was set up after the disaster of thalidomide but if we ignore it as you and many others like you are doing then we are in for a disaster. While in the short term covid vaccines may prevent many deaths in the elderly it’s killing much younger people who would survive covid. Remember 99.8% of people survive covid so why make it mandatory. Lastly if a disaster does occur it will turn everyone against vaccination which as been man’s greatest discovery. And why all because you ignored the evidence!
But it is not being ignored. The MHRA and other agencies, who are far more expert in interpreting it than you, I or Dr. Lawrie, are monitoring it. That’s how they detected the problem with AZ and blood clots.
It all comes down to whether you think that for some reason all the international monitoring agencies have simultaneously become corrupt or incompetent.
I don’t believe any of these agencies are corrupt or incompetent but any organisation that answers to politicians must follow a narrative. If that narrative is the only way out of a pandemic is to vaccinate everyone you going to after have pretty good evidence to stop vaccinating. The whole idea behind the yellow card system and others is to detect BEFORE too much harm is in inflicted. As you maybe aware MHRA didn’t detect any blood clots until several people died in Norway and later on Europe. When these places announced deaths and suspension of vaccination did MHRA admit blood clots. I believe at the moment in the UK one in 34,000 vaccinations results in death. While death from covid in healthy people under 60 is one in 40,000 so there’s no gain from vaccination of the healthy. You may have heard that people over 80 who are vaccinated reduce their risk by 96%. What know one tells you is that vaccination only reduces your risk of death from covid by 1%. This is because for most people covid isn’t a killer the government wants us all to believe. Lastly your links make interesting reading but who fact checks… Read more »
Derek
There is a lot of stuff in your latest comment and I don’t have time to do all your points justice. So I will stick to the most important point. I have more faith in the regulatory organisations than you do. Because of that, I do not think one in 34,000 vaccinations results in death. Possibly one in 34,000 people who are vaccinated dies shortly afterwards, which of course is quite different. (I haven’t done the maths). Bear in mind about 1 in a 1000 people die every month anyway from other causes. I think we just have to agree to differ on this.
One other small point, Robert Malone says he invented the technology behind the Covid vaccines – others in the field disagree. He did work on mRNA back in the 1990s along with several other people. He claims he was the leader. His colleagues disagree. In any case, he hasn’t worked on mRNA since publishing a paper in 2000 at which stage they hadn’t worked with human subjects at all. A lot of very clever people have developed the technology a great deal since then.
It’s obvious we disagree on vaccination.I don’t think I could get away by saying because your likely to die at some point it’s coincidence that the poison I gave you killed you. I am 59 so I am at peak age for a heart attack,both parents had heart disease so you could say I am vulnerable. Now if I had the covid vaccine and I had an heart attack shortly afterwards would you say it was coincidence or the covid vaccine caused it ? To be honest I don’t want to take the risk I have had covid so know it’s not a killer. But people like you insist I take an experimental vaccine for no possible gain. Why ?
if I had the covid vaccine and I had an heart attack shortly afterwards would you say it was coincidence or the covid vaccine caused it ?
I would say it needed investigation to determine the cause.
But people like you insist I take an experimental vaccine for no possible gain.
Well of course I think there is significant gain – both for you and the community at large. (The word “experimental” is more of a political statement than saying anything about the vaccine)
I really think we should call it a day. The only thing I’d like to add is what gain ? As I’ve said I’ve had covid so I am already immune and unlike the vaccinated I cannot get infected or infect others. My wife got covid in January 11 months after I got infected,so I know I am still immune whatever the government say. We sat together while she coughed on me and I got nothing confirmed by test. I would suggest you stop seeing things as black white and question everything, I say us sceptics may not be right about everything but do seek the truth.
I agree we should call it a day. I missed that you had already had Covid.
I do question quite a lot I think – including your beliefs. Or do you get an exemption?
Last message if you do question then why is it people’s beliefs or in the form of trying to discredit people. Why not ask yourself real questions like why do I know so few people who have died from covid? Why is big tech censoring alternative views ? Why are doctors prevented from treating patients at home?
These and many other questions need answers which only us sceptics are asking.
The coercion to vaccinate all NHS staff must be resisted at all costs, however, I know it takes a great deal of courage to stand up to the relentless pressure to comply and I salute you.
Two members of my family are nurses and both are refusing the vaccination. Both of them are excellent, experienced and dedicated nurses of great integrity. It seems that the NHS will be losing some of it best staff.
NHS staff who were injured by the Swine Flu jab – remember that pandemic that never was? – were only compensated in 2019. No wonder the drug companies have ensured that this time they are exempt from claims for damages.
“Just because a lot of people have died after being vaccinated it doesn’t mean the vaccine caused their death.”
Just because a lot of people died after testing ‘positive’ it doesn’t mean Covid caused their death. Yet, there it is, on the death certificate.
A valid point. Luckily there are other ways of measuring how many people have died of Covid.
‘Luckily there are other ways of measuring how many people have died of Covid.’
And it’s very noticeable that you don’t support your assertion with any citation. The number of deaths caused ‘by Covid’ is clearly exaggerated.
JVT’s slides back in April… potential harms increase as you go down the age groups.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/apr/07/uk-covid-live-news-mhra-astrazeneca-vaccine-coronavirus-latest-updates
It’s mentioned in the manufacturer’s and government’s own documentation that became public – you have to search quite hard to find it though.
Eh, the approved MSM narrative will just ignore the rate increase and pivot to shrieking about the total number of cases among the un-jabbed.
Not sure I buy the chart showing 90% jab uptake among all groups but the under-40s.
I could believe something like, “jabs are available to 90% of above-40s,” since many MSM outlets seem to be playing the, “jabs available/distributed = jabs administered,” game.
Yes, Johnson talks about soon having the whole country vaccinated. Fat chance of that.
New Zealand are talking about going door-to-door threatening people. Biden admin is talking about going door-to-door, threatening people. Only a matter of time before we see it in Airstrip One as well
Fucking scary.
Please do not ask me to take one of your Covid ‘vaccines’, as a punch in the face is often offensive.
At present, nearly63% of adults are full vaccinated,once everybody is vaccinated (if ever)100 % of those catching civid19 will be vaccinated.
Precisely. The graphs above, whilst no doubt technically correct, give a misleading impression. The percentage of people vaccinated is increasing and the percentage of people unvaccinated is decreasing; the trends illustrated are to be expected.
Exactly. A little analogous to the fact that the more people you test, the more positive cases you’ll find.
It appears to have little effect on preventing transmission – so can we call it a vaccine? Surely it’s just a therapeutic?
Yes, it’s a treatment for a disease people don’t have.
What’s next, chemo in case you get cancer?
What’s next, chemo in case you get cancer?
That might be preferable to any of these terminator “vaccines”
I doubt whether any of them are actually remotely therapeutic.
It does make me uncomfortable that the data appears to show that vaccination does reduce the chances of being infected significantly, 40 percent of the population (unvaccinated) are infected at twice the rate as the 60% vaccinated.
The young, mostly unjabbed, are the group being tested the most.
They don’t say how long people have been vaccinated for. It can be inferred from their age but since the hot spots seem to be in areas where there has been poor vaccine uptake, then the older members of those communities are likely only to have started their vax process in the last few week, and won’t have had the second yet. The ZOE study doesn’t distinguish. It doesn’t taste right to me so I think it needs a pinch of salt.
So are you a misanthopist? Why are you uncomfortable that a medicine significantly reduces the chance of being infected?
Facts speak differently.
So apparently, does Ivermectin
Why are we not allowed to chose our therapeutic?
Yes.
Do we know that the same number of cycles is being used for both jabbed and unjabbed testing?
Plus, of course, this is self-reported. Could it be explained by the jabbed being more engaged with the whole theatre of covid so more likely to report the minutiae of their dreary lives? Whereas the unjabbed generally have better things to do, like, oh I don’t know, live perhaps?
Yes they have adopted a much lower cycle number for the vaccinated and so the books have have been cooked.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right, but I haven’t seen evidence of “cooking” the CT threshold for PCR in the UK. In the USA, yes.
Is there evidence out there that the UK is doing this as well? If there, I’d be very interested to see it!
Many unjabbed dont engage with Zoe app or trace and trap
Yes the unjabbed have some common sense for reasons that I don’t need to spell out. They are most likely not rushing for a meaningless test that cannot accurately detect any kind of infection and certainly not a set of symptoms they have labelled as Covid.
I don’t know, all we seem to have is more questions and no answers so I don’t see why my comment has provoked such a response.
You are, of course, correct that everything we’re told just raises more questions than answers.
I wouldn’t worry too much about downvotes; your comment was open to interpretation and obviously some people chose to assume you were being pro-jab.
It’s not surprising that pumping a load of SARS-Cov-2 spike protein genetic material into someone’s body will, after they have produced a lot of said spike protein, stimulate the production of antibodies to that spike protein, which will also be effective against the virus itself.
Why anybody would knowingly do that to themselves remains something of a mystery to me.
I am also rather uncomfortable at the number of downvotes this innocent comment provoked. Are we becoming a cult?
Was it not the case that infections soared as soon as the vax was initiated Dec/Jan? Is this just not a similar trend?
Stop looking at that January data. If you look at that one might think being jabbed caused infections.
Not just the infections but also deaths.
Does anyone take the outcome of a million tests a day that seriously? Less than a third are PCR tests and of the rest most are self tests of unknown provenance. I can’t find any figures for symptomatic positives, is it me or is that what they don’t want us to know?
I don’t think the absolute numbers are the slightest bit meaningful, what is interesting is the proportional change. Testing rates have risen, but nowhere near in proportion to the cases.
Also the distribution of cases needs to be factored in. Most are coming from vaccine shy communities, where the gregarious young are spreading it around their multigenerational households, and even the older folks are way behind the ret of the country in vaccinations (so many only recently vaccinated and hence still not in the safe zone, two weeks after the second one).
Zoe data has absolutely nothing to do with PCR or tests.
My comment had nothing to do with ZOE data, I was reporting Gov statistics.
Indeed not – it does measure rises in hypochondria, though.
Garbage data is garbage – even if it is aimed at supporting the sceptic case.
There is so much noise in the data these days I just look out the window for my gauge of the situation. All looks normal. Will update again tomorrow.
It’s difficult to gauge anything, when the young are being tested/self testing at an enormous rate. Couple that with the UK being way out in front as far as variant sequencing goes. Having said that we’re seeing a rise in symptomatics in nearly every group/country following 1st doses being administered.
I have a feeling that this may be justified by the numbers… By my calculation, there should be around 45.4m people with at least 1 dose of the vaccine. That graphs says there are about 12,000 cases of vaccinated people testing positive. The reported efficiency of the vaccine is 95%. That would mean that in order for 12,000 people to get a positive test, you’d have to have 240,000 people exposed. That would mean the exposure rate is about 0.5%. That doesn’t sound unreasonable…
Vaccinating people when the prevalence is one thing, vaccinating them during an upswing appears to accelerate the rate, see The Seychelles, India, Israel, Chile etc, etc
Were the Lions players and management vaxed?
I do recall seeing the media reports that the whole party was vaccinated before they flew out.
Worth a watch – case presentation of the autopsy of a vaccinated patient… Who tested positive…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pPyzygRIQfc
It does not take much to figure this out. The number of unvaccinated is dwindling daily, no wonder infections in the small group remaining have fallen in absolute terms. Fewer people in the group means fewer infections in that smaller group.The number of vaccinated is growing daily, many more people means more infections in that larger group. The more successful the vaccination campaign, the more this is bound to happen.
Which proves the “vaccines” don’t actually work or no-one vaxxed would be getting infected
It’s a good news story on some levels, since it means that unvaccinated people are either
a) becoming immune via infection or
b) are not being exposed to the degree they were before (possibly because there are fewer of them, or because there are relatively more vaccinated people , who are hence less likely to transmit covid19 to them.)
On another level the increase in cases in vaccinated people shows the group is growing. Covid19 in vaccinated people is not as severe, and we would prefer that group to have more cases than the unvaccinated people, who are much more likely to need hospital. The vaccine is only e.g. 95% effective, but cases that get through are mild generally.
Eventually one would expect (and hope to see) the vast majority of cases occur in vaccinated people. And due to the success of the campaign, we are starting to see that.
On what study do you base your premise that the vaccinated are less likely to transmit the virus and what is the absolute risk reduction, rather than the relative risk reduction?
77. Go away
77 cunt fuck off
A while back there was a video showing how cases in most countries took off at the same time as the vaccination programs got going. My guess is that’s what’s now being seen in the under 40’s who are lining up to take the shot.
Well Will, it all depends on the Rt-PCR tests doesn’t it?
We know CDC in the US have adjusted the PCR test CT values for injected people, to produce better results for them versus non-injected. Are we seriously thinking the UK hasn’t doesn’t the same? That would be particularly naive I think.
So any comparison is pretty useless. But haveing said all that, it is significant that the injected are now showing such a rate of increase. But as we know the injection does not create immunity or reduce transmission, why are we surprised?
Its fraud and the people responsible for producing fraudulent test results should be sued in a court of law.
The long awaited class action from Reiner Fuellmilch. Please share with your MP, GP friends and family.
https://rumble.com/vjb4i5-reiner-fuellmich-explains-the-class-action-law-suit-filed-on-june-21st-2021.html
Tim Spector himself discusses the plot, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CQH4Kme9mQ
He didn’t really go into that much detail. His assertion regards masks was surprising too. Overall, no hyperbole. I’m really interested to see deaths per case regards vaccinated vs unvaccinated as initial numbers suggest the vaccinated are more likely to die.
We know the deaths per case regards unvaccinated , when we look at deaths per case a year and a bit ago before vaccine was invented. We had 1000 deaths a day then. Yesterday, we had 33 deaths. Go figure, chump.
Spector and ZOE are controlled opposition. Irrelevant.
The objective of the vaccination campaign is to try to ensure 100% of new cases are in the vaccinated group. If (and its a big if) this ever occurs, the vaxxers have done it, They are getting closer, as I will show: Talking figures from the article on the main site:
https://dailysceptic.org/2021/07/07/infections-surge-among-the-vaccinated-while-those-in-the-unvaccinated-plateau-data-shows/
The plot shows ~34k new cases, 22k are in vaccinated group, i.e. 65%, when that hits 100% the vaxxers have done it. It’s not far off, the vaxxers are hoping to close this gap ASAP, it’s a race they appear to be winning. They hope that close to 100% of covid cases occur in the vaccinated group as cases in vaccinated people are usually mild and require no hospital treatment.
Cases in unvaccinated people are usually mild and require no hospital treatment. The question is what cases in the vaccinated V the unvaccinated will look like in November…
No. 22k are in the UNvaccinated group.
Another ZOE plot show you are much more likely to get covid19 if you are not vaccinated and of course much less likley once you are vaccinated:
What does “get covid mean”?
Sniffle cough lemsip whiskey and lemon bed back to normal in a few days
A 1 in 16,000 death sentence – unless you’re young. That raises to 1 in 1000 roughly if you fail to avoid the disease and catch it.
Nonsense. QCovid gives me a 1/18,000 chance of fatality – if I even catch it – based on figures from 2020, when prevalence was higher and treatment less advanced (but, in 2021, STILL no ivermectin, just sayin’….)
And though I’d like to call myself “young”, I’m not.
Maybe a relatively large proportion of those unvaccinated have already had covid (and so turned down the jab) and therefore have better immunity. I’d put myself in that category.
fair.
If that was the case, they wouldn’t be catching it again so much.
IMO transmission in younger age groups, which having out-paced that in older age groups earlier this Spring – they mix more – is now plateauing as transmission is permeating older age groups. There is no need to involve vaccines – unless many of the old start dying because they don’t work! We may not find that out for sure until autumn…. I can’t help feel we know the answer to that one…..but let’s hope they do work.
Around 90% of adults have now had at least one dose of vaccine, nonetheless the unvaccinated 10% still account for two thirds of recorded cases, as the graph shows
This unvaccinated fraction is declining so, even though they are the most vulnerable to infection (as they are) the number of new cases among them tails off, as seen. Meanwhile there is a growing number of partially vaccinated young. They remain vulnerable to (almost always very mild) infection and lockdown is easing, driving circulation of the virus. Hence the rising tally of cases among the ‘vaccinated’, whose numbers are anyway growing.
The one factor I haven’t taken into account are children (I’m not sure how they are represented in ZOE)… but, with this one possible confounder, the patterns seen are entirely compatible with the view of vaccines being highly effective.
Rough count, 0.1% of fans wearing masks tonight in the stadium, if that. Seems the majority of people don’t want to keep wearing them…
I wonder why the government doesn’t want people to congregate and share ideas?!
they don’t work worth a fuck.I wear one but under the nose.
Until they do a breakdown by vaccine TYPE we wont get a proper answer to this.
It wouldnt be in the least surprising if most of the breakthrough infections are AstraZenica as we know it has much worse efficacy against infection than the mRNAs.
Zoe also has a very liberal definition of vaccinated – 1 dose and short time span (i think 8 days) so lots of those are in fact unvaccinated.
I cant work out why they combined 1st and 2nd dose onto the same graph for this – makes it meaningless.
Have you seen the news from Israel?
Will.
you are a smart man.
Could it be that the “vaccination” doesn’t work?
Keep crunching the numbers and get back when you figure that out.
It seems to me that there is no way for a clinician or a PCR test to distinguish between a genuine case of Covid-19 and a case of a vaccinated person becoming ill due to being injected with spike proteins. If anyone can tell me whether there is an actual way, then I will be happy to listen and even change my mind.
This question does not pertain to this post but as I reckon it will be the usual people who are ‘in the ken’ reading this can anyone here help me? I was digging around on the WHO vigiacess database last week and I thought I would have heard about this somewhere somehow… but it’s the first I’ve come across it. Does anyone know why there might be a reason why their adverse reaction database has registered adverse reactions specifically to ‘covid-19 vaccines’ as far back as 2014? 36 in 2019, 8 in 2018 and one every year previously until 2014. I’m really confuse by this.
Terrible typing – retrospective apologies.
There are too many unknown variables and too little raw data here to make any conclusions.
There is something strange about that first chart though. Why does the “unvaccinated” line have a wide confidence range but the “vaccinated” confidence range is extremely tight? Is there some reason why the “unvaccinated” line has such low confidence? Or could it be that there is almost no one using the Zoe app who has refused the “vaccines* so the sample is tiny. I expect most Zoe users are the types that would sell their own mother to get a “vaccine”. 15% of adults and close to 100% of children have still not been vaccinated so the confidence range contrast shouldn’t be that large.
This is just modelled garbage again isn’t it? Are they trying to extrapolate daily case numbers based on relatively small but biased and politically convenient data sets again.
I had the Zoe app when this scam first started, but I deleted it very soon after when I realised it was for THEM, not us.
Yes there is a reason. There are four times as many people in one category than the other – which leads to wider error bars.